Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

unkel

I believe it is switched on by default. Maybe it was off for TOLLOT?

jeremy_g

Just trying to give him all the options, most people never read the user's manual

Myself never had any problems with my car in 15 months now.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I believe it is switched on by default. Maybe it was off for TOLLOT?

jeremy_g wrote: »

Just trying to give him all the options, most people never read the user's manual

Myself never had any problems with my car in 15 months now.

I dont know the Ioniq menus but from reading what jeremy has posted it sounds like its not whether its on or off but also what mode it is set to... Cycle or Automatic.

If its set to cycle it means its charging the 12V every 3 days.

In automatic mode its only charging the 12V if the car is turned on and plugged in. That's a strange setting for automatic, why the need for it to be plugged in? Does it not topup the 12V while driving?


Lets see what charge regime TOLLOT has and what that menu setting is set to.

Either way, he should start with charging the 12V from an external charger and see how it behaves after that.

TOLLOT

Thanks , one lads at work has a jump start pack and d I’m going to bring that home tonight before I do anything else .
I’ll charge up the 12 v and see what happens and report back

punisher5112

TOLLOT wrote: »

Thanks , one lads at work has a jump start pack and d I’m going to bring that home tonight before I do anything else .
I’ll charge up the 12 v and see what happens and report back

Send it to garage that's what warranty is for.

Silent Running

unkel wrote: »

I believe it is switched on by default. Maybe it was off for TOLLOT?

My car is from March 18 and the battery saver was set to off. I clearly remember changing the setting to allow the battery saver to operate. Now I see the blue light flashing occasionally, telling me that it's charging the 12v battery (not plugged in).

It seems odd that it wouldn't be on by default, but then I think of all the buttons I have to press before setting off: VESS, auto hold, turn on cruise.

TOLLOT

As regards charge regime I top it up as needs be . But my commute to work is short . I’d say for example I’m might have only done 30 kn yesterday around the place then maybe fortnightly trips to Dublin from cork .

That’s a good tip in the hidden car door opening slot . I was lucky in that I didn’t relock it when I left it in drive for 15 min so the drivers door was open . Wouldn’t been able to even try things otherwise

I’m inclined to lean towards the 12 v given it was totally dead the second time . I curious as to what might have caused the 12v to drain in this instance

TOLLOT

I’ll check the settings tonight in battery saver and see what story is ,
I’ll charge up the 12 v and see what happens then .
That’s the main suspect for now .
I’ll report in then . Obviously I was lucky this morning but it this happens much further from home I’d be in a tight spot .

KCross

TOLLOT wrote: »

I’m inclined to lean towards the 12 v given it was totally dead the second time . I curious as to what might have caused the 12v to drain in this instance

You left it running with the heaters on when the battery was already almost dead anyway, so that just killed it entirely.

The 12V battery needs hours on a charger to get it back to where it needs to be. 30mins might be enough to spring it into life but unless you give it hours on a charger you will be looking at the same issue again the following day.... assuming it is the 12V, of course.

punisher5112

TOLLOT wrote: »

I’ll check the settings tonight in battery saver and see what story is ,
I’ll charge up the 12 v and see what happens then .
That’s the main suspect for now .
I’ll report in then . Obviously I was lucky this morning but it this happens much further from home I’d be in a tight spot .

Have you got a proper battery charger to plug into the mains?

zg3409

>What charge regime do you keep? Do >you charge to 100% every day or only as >needed?

Also make sure the
"aux battery saver" is enabled. This tops up 12v battery with big battery. This should be ideal for cars not driven daily, but it did not help in my case.

Use right steering wheel mounted buttons to go into the menu

See this video for a guide:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OQEgfqMdzQ0

So was your battery saver already enabled?

TOLLOT

Hi folks
An update

So I charged a jump start kit overnight. Tried that this morning, it didn’t do the trick . As in the ignition came on that but The brakes were still on hold ./ warning was on
Got jump leads and jump started using my wife’s diesel.
Worked straight away .
As in i heard The brakes doing their electronic hum as they released .
Checked the aux battery setting a nd it’s set to on bad I’ve seen the message before saying it topped up
...
So somehow I got a weak 12 v and in the cold yesterday it was not enough to release the brakes , causing that warning /

So now to talk to the dealer maybe about a change in Battery .
I notice if says 12 v , and so many amp hours so maybe I could use a bigger battery

Could be that my short commutes are putting pressure on it , but it’s the second time the 12 v has caught me out ,( if that’s what it was )seems so

I made another mistake I realize too

I assumed that the heating ran off the 12 v when the ignition was on , ie orange setting on power button but I assumed it ran off the main battery when it was in park , ie normal drive/ power mode

That was pointed out to me here yesterday and then it clicked with me after . They just kilkedvthe 12 v battery off .
So that’s true for my old ICE car but not now

I initially assumed the frost in the grass was causing a problem for the brakes .

I’ll bring it out for a spin now to top up the 12v

Nice tip too on the skeleton key thanks

I’ll talk to dealer and replace 12 v is my thinking

Thanks

unkel

The heating on the 12V would kill your battery in minutes!

With the frost yesterday morning, I put the heater on full and it drew an incredible 7kW :eek:
The good thing was that the cabin was defrosted in less than one minute. Our estate was full of ICE cars sitting idling on the driveway with the key in the ignition and the owner back in the house, LOL. Very bad for the engine and you will not be covered for insurance if the car gets stolen

And before anyone says - yes I could have heated up the cabin automatically on a timer via the home charger. Somehow I never bother. The car is only charging maybe once every 3 days anyway...

KCross

TOLLOT wrote: »

So I charged a jump start kit overnight. Tried that this morning, it didn’t do the trick . As in the ignition came on that but The brakes were still on hold ./ warning was on
Got jump leads and jump started using my wife’s diesel.
Worked straight away .
As in i heard The brakes doing their electronic hum as they released .
Checked the aux battery setting a nd it’s set to on bad I’ve seen the message before saying it topped up

Well that defo confirms its the 12V.

Does the kit you connected to it overnight have a desulphation mode? Thats what the battery needs now as it has been run down too low. A few hours on a charger wont resurrect it.

A full recondition/desulphation cycle over 24/48hrs is what it needs.... or just buy a new one.

Maybe Hyundai will cover it for you but they would be within their rights to refuse as its not the batteries fault as such.

TOLLOT wrote: »

So somehow I got a weak 12 v and in the cold yesterday it was not enough to release the brakes , causing that warning /

So now to talk to the dealer maybe about a change in Battery .
I notice if says 12 v , and so many amp hours so maybe I could use a bigger battery

The cold and darker nights probably conspired to tip it over the edge.

Getting a higher capacity battery wont help you. It will likely just extend the length of time before it happens again. What you need is to get the settings right in the menu to ensure the high voltage pack tops up the 12V enough to make up for the fact you have alot of short commutes.

TOLLOT wrote: »

I assumed that the heating ran off the 12 v when the ignition was on , ie orange setting on power button but I assumed it ran off the main battery when it was in park , ie normal drive/ power mode

That was pointed out to me here yesterday and then it clicked with me after . They just kilkedvthe 12 v battery off .

The 12V drives most of the systems in the car. The high voltage drives the motor. As the 12V goes down the HV pack charges the 12V.... if the settings are wrong and/or your commute is short the 12V isnt getting topped up enough.

TOLLOT wrote: »

I’ll bring it out for a spin now to top up the 12v

A spin wont be enough. It needs hours (24-48hrs on a smart charger), not minutes.


You might also consider buying a voltage meter that plugs into the cig lighter. It will give the current voltage of the battery and its a quick/easy way to tell if the battery is running low.
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/8430724

I'm not recommending that specific one just giving you an idea of what Im talking about.

When the battery is being charged you should see 14V+. If you see the battery showing <12V you know its not being float charged enough.

unkel

That's a lot of experience coming through in your post, KCross. I know because I've been there myself in many cars

denismc

That's a very informative post from KCross,
It's great to have such knowledgeable people in this forum.

TOLLOT

Thanks for the info KCross . I’ve ordered one those gizmos and will keep an eye on the battery health with it .
Seems my driving regime is challenging the 12v battery but I’ll be able to test that theory out now.

Orebro

Never knew about those 12v cig lighter testers, thats dead handy.

unkel

Orebro wrote: »

Never knew about those 12v cig lighter testers, thats dead handy.

A €2.99 multimeter will do the same, but you'd have to open the bonnet

KCross

TOLLOT wrote: »

Seems my driving regime is challenging the 12v battery but I’ll be able to test that theory out now.

You mentioned that you charge the HV as needed and not every night. If you did charge every night to 100% it would also topup the 12V and prevent the issue.

As I understand it, the Ioniq works the same as the Leaf, in that the 3rd blue light flashes on its own to signify that the 12V is being charged and it will do that at the end of every HV charge session (i.e. when its at 100%). That would also "fix" the issue but you then have to balance that with having the car sitting at 100% for long periods of time which isnt ideal for the HV battery.

i.e. If you only use 10% of the battery each day its not generally recommended to be charging to 100% everyday.


How many times a week does the HV battery get fully charged to 100%?

Orebro

unkel wrote: »

A €2.99 multimeter will do the same, but you'd have to open the bonnet

Bonnet has been opened about twice for windscreen wash refill since I've gone BEV - it's so 1990s having to open a bonnet :-)

unkel

It's so 1920s having an aux lead acid battery in your car

TOLLOT

KCross wrote: »

You mentioned that you charge the HV as needed and not every night. If you did charge every night to 100% it would also topup the 12V and prevent the issue.

As I understand it, the Ioniq works the same as the Leaf, in that the 3rd blue light flashes on its own to signify that the 12V is being charged and it will do that at the end of every HV charge session (i.e. when its at 100%). That would also "fix" the issue but you then have to balance that with having the car sitting at 100% for long periods of time which isnt ideal for the HV battery.

i.e. If you only use 10% of the battery each day its not generally recommended to be charging to 100% everyday.


How many times a week does the HV battery get fully charged to 100%?

I currently charge it 2-3 times per week to 100 % , twice the weeks I’m around locally then the weeks I’ve a longer trip a third or fourth time .
Was mulling over that out in a longer spin today , 12v battery topping off at 100 % had been mentioned on tyrbgorum here some time back , so the advantage of that vs having the battery at 100% a lot .
would the BMS protect the battery from degradation though ?
I’d be doing some driving at least every day .
Guess I’ll collect some data with the battery health gizmo and ensure I plug it in at home at least the nights we’ve frost expected as the cold night Wednesday night seemed to hammer the battery capacity.

TOLLOT

When Hyundai launch their famous European ioniq app they can add a graph of 12V battery health with a warning function if it’s teetering !

zg3409

So I am in a similar boat, with a flat 12v battery.

I have battery saver always on. I assume battery saver only tops up every 3 days, and my battery died overnight due to cold and possibly a software bug that causes too much drain on battery for those running 2016 software.

If plugged in nightly, 12v battery is constantly topped up, so you may have quite a worn battery and not realise.

If driving or engine-on the 12v battery is also constantly topped up. I have a plug in voltmeter, so I can see this happening.

So this issue seems to happen when car is not charging, and 12v battery goes flat within the 72 hour period where the battery saver is waiting to see if the battery should be topped up.

I suspect if I parked my car for 70 hours, without charging, the battery might drop very low, as my battery is 1.5 years old, and it is not in its best health. If it lasts 72 hours then it will be topped up automatically and I will get the warning next use that battery saver has been used. I never leave my car parked for 3 full days without being plugged in.

For TOLLOT his battery may or may not recover, but it may recover better if charged using a professional charger.

Then he needs to leave his car plugged in even when 100% charged as he needs to top up the 12v battery more than every 3 days. If he gets a new battery it may last the 3 days, but as he does short journeys it may not be topped up during a short drive and so while parked at work it will drain more and never get a real top up until it is next plugged in all night. So his car needs to be plugged in much more, just to keep 12v battery fully topped up, as his short journeys are not long enough to charge it, and the car only tops it up every 72 hours. 3 full days parked) which does not seem to be good enough particularly on cold nights, when the battery has been treated badly in this case.

In my case the battery may have been treated badly by previous owner (low mileage London car) and so I also need to leave charging cable connected every night, and possibly get a new battery as it may run down in under 12 hours on a cold night as happened Sunday night.

A note on the plug in voltmeter. I have been using mine all week. Its not really as useful as popping the bonnet and measuring the battery voltage after the car has been sitting. The reason why is the cigarette lighter is not powered on, until the car is started, and immediately the voltage rises as it us being charged from HV battery. So you don't see the low values you can by connecting directly to battery with car off. I have measured 12.3/12.4 volts after 12 hours sitting, which is not ideal. I would prefer 12.9/13V or more indicating battery has a long way before it drops to 11.5 at which point car may no longer work. Using plug in voltmeter I see 14.4v 13.8v and fluctuations like car is topping up battery and then charging slower.

denismc

So when your large battery is fully charged does the charger continue to charge the 12volt through out the night ,or does the charger disconnect completely once it sees that the main battery is fully charged?

JohnnyJohnJohns

TOLLOT wrote: »

Morning Folks
My Ioniq would not move this morning for trip to work .
Message “check brakes” flashing when I started it . Had about 170 km range so main battery has plenty charge
It switched on but wouldn’t go into gear .
It was the first touch of frost we’ve got so I left it on with heaters running for 10 min and then turned it off and left it for 15 min .

Totally dead this time , wouldn’t respond the key , lock or unlock .
Opened the charger port by crawling into the boot and Tried plugging in , no joy .
I be seen ppl on here have problems with the 12v battery and given it was totally dead a few min later it’s my theory it’s acting up .
Any one across this before ? Any one changed supplied 12 V battery?
Guess AA cover is an immediate solution but interested in preventing this happening again as while I had to Walk to work today I might not be so lucky another time .

Same thing happened me this morning. Had to pull out a car seat to get into the boot too. It had been plugged in to charge once night rate came on so no idea what happened. AA cam out and charged the 12v and we let the HV battery charge to 100% during the day.

A bit worrying as we're away next weekend for a wedding but I suppose the AA should be able to get it going if we encounter any issues.

CptMackey

Is this 12v battery issue on every ionic. Decided to pass on a outlander and looking at full ev and waiting to get a price on the ionic.

zg3409

>Is this 12v battery issue on every ionic. Decided to pass on a outlander and looking at full ev and waiting to get a price on >the ionic.

Ioniq may be available brand new from some dealers 28K ish?. Kona full EV should be available in limited numbers to order this week. 37.5 K ish?

My battery was 1,5 years old, and failed once on Monday. I jump started it and I was on the road 15 minutes later. It has been OK since and update from dealers may have solved problem.

Other user did not drive car enough or charge it enough, so that might be the problem. Plugging it in more often may solve problem

Often batteries in all cars start to fail on frosty nights, a new battery is probably 60 quid and small 12V battery should be covered under first 2 year warranty. There is no issues with the main batteries, in fact they seem better than other electric cars. We are just discussing the possible best ways to reduce the chance of a flat battery and what to do if it happens to you.

KCross

TOLLOT wrote: »

I currently charge it 2-3 times per week to 100 % , twice the weeks I’m around locally then the weeks I’ve a longer trip a third or fourth time .

I think this is your problem.

Lets say you do 2 nights a week. Thats 2 nights where the 12V gets a topup. Lets say you then have 2-3 days of short commutes with the heating on, lights and wipers on... thats going to be a big drain on the 12V and with your short commute the amount of topup is not enough to balance the amount of draw on the 12V... a cold night and it tips the battery over the edge and it wont start.

denismc wrote: »

So when your large battery is fully charged does the charger continue to charge the 12volt through out the night ,or does the charger disconnect completely once it sees that the main battery is fully charged?

It charges the HV first and then at the end charges the 12V. It is signified by the 3rd blue light flashing on its own.



There are a few folks now who have said they ended up with a dead 12V so it seems common enough.


Just to summarise how the 12V gets charged....

For both Leaf and Ioniq.
1) while you are driving it gets topped up. If you are doing short commutes this topup wont be enough to balance out the draw from having heaters, lights, wipers etc on.
2) at the end of the HV charge session... 3rd blue light flashing on its own.

For Ioniq only...
3) The aux saver+ mode being active has two topups

a) If the car is off and idle for 3 days it auto tops up the 12V. This really only counts when you are on holidays or something. Not useful to counteract the issues people are having over the last week or so.
b) If the car is plugged in AND turned on it will topup the 12V for 20mins (according to jeremy_g's screenshot of the manual). This doesnt help much either since you have to turn the car on so its something you have to actively do and think of while plugged in at home.

For short commuters I'd recommend
- Charge to 100% more often, if you can. Maybe every other night.
- If you dont want to charge to 100% use the 3b method above by leaving the car plugged in and turned on for 20mins. You should see the 3rd blue light flashing on its own. Leave it on until the light goes out.
- Monitor the 12V. A fully charged 12V will be at 12.7V. If you have a 12V charger stick it on a full charge cycle (at least 24hrs) if you see it dropping below 12V.