Car accident, road with no grip

Special Circumstances

Ladies and Gentlemen!
Welcome to Powerpants monthly "cheap no name tyres are just as good as those from major manufacturers, and chinese hoverboards are the pinnacle of electronic engineering and quality control" thread.

invicta

bear1 wrote: »

Ara jaysus.
So you're saying any crash where you are not able to stop automatically means that the driver is at fault?

Think about that!!

100% YES!!

Cars or any moving object,cannot stop any faster than normal friction or gravity will allow!!
other than the actions of a third party,which,in the case of a car- would be the driver!
Or else another object.

Bruthal

bear1 wrote: »

Ara jaysus.
So you're saying any crash where you are not able to stop automatically means that the driver is at fault?

Well, from a standing start, to run into the car in front at this 10mph probably involves bad driving.

Bruthal

invicta wrote: »

Think about that!!

100% YES!!

Cars or any moving object,cannot stop any faster than normal friction or gravity will allow!!
other than the actions of a third party,which,in the case of a car- would be the driver!
Or else another object.

The friction is a huge variable. And the driver can have some input into how good that is, by having good tyres. A highly skilled driver won't stop in a shorter distance on bald tyres on a wet road than the average driver with good tyres.

But the OP sounds like some lack of attention was involved.

kirving

power pants wrote: »

a poor tradesman blames his tools

op should have been taking more care with his driving and the crash would not have happened

if it were his tyres, sue the brand and take them out of circulation but thats never going to happen as its nothing got to do with the tyres

OK, say there's a very careful driver, who always follows the speed limit and never pushes their car anywhere near the limit.

No need for them to "waste" money on decent tyres, right?
Once it's E marked, that's good enough, right?

Then one day, your child accidentally runs out in front of the car because they want to get home and in out of the pouring rain.

What tyres would you prefer on the car at this point? Something that barely meets the minimum legal limit, or something premium? Honest answers now.

I appreciate that this is a Continental produced video, but at the point the car is stopped on the premium tyres, the other car is still moving at 31mph.

https://youtu.be/e2c9Ry0JfMw?t=3m04s

80% chance your child will live, that's good enough, right?

power pants

I appreciate that this is a Continental produced video


you clearly dont though. Its just marketing for certain people to lap up

If you are going to hit a child , unfortunately that is what will happen no matter what tyres you have on the car

Expensive tyres are not to be confused with magic tyres

quadrifoglio verde

power pants wrote: »

a poor tradesman blames his tools

op should have been taking more care with his driving and the crash would not have happened

if it were his tyres, sue the brand and take them out of circulation but thats never going to happen as its nothing got to do with the tyres

A good tradesman doesn't buy **** tools though

Cuddlesworth

power pants wrote: »

I appreciate that this is a Continental produced video


you clearly dont though. Its just marketing for certain people to lap up

If you are going to hit a child , unfortunately that is what will happen no matter what tyres you have on the car

Expensive tyres are not to be confused with magic tyres

Find some evidence that a A rated wet tyre and a G rated wet tyre have the same braking distance in wet conditions. Then feel free to forward it on to those easy to blame marketing people.

kerten

power pants wrote: »

I appreciate that this is a Continental produced video


you clearly dont though. Its just marketing for certain people to lap up

If you are going to hit a child , unfortunately that is what will happen no matter what tyres you have on the car

Expensive tyres are not to be confused with magic tyres

Do you mean that there is no difference in grip between cheapest E marked tyre and Premium brand tyre ?

or

Do you mean that it is perfectly fine to buy cheapest E marked tyre on the market if you are driving according to its grip level.

If it is the latter, please tell us what are the differences in driving practices you follow when there is a cheap tyre on the car vs an expensive tyre.

- Do you drive at different speeds on a wet motorway ?
- Do you drive at different speeds in wet back roads ?
- Do you approach blind bends at different speeds ?
- What is the difference in distance you keep with cars in front of you in both cases ?

Bruthal

Kevin Irving wrote: »

80% chance your child will live, that's good enough, right?

Perhaps, If the child happens to run out at the position the better tyres can stop.

If the child randomly runs out onto a road, there is a high chance they will be hit. the outcome depends on endless factors.

Either way, there is no doubt better tyres are better to have on a car.

Bruthal

kerten wrote: »

- Do you drive at different speeds on a wet motorway ?
- Do you drive at different speeds in wet back roads ?
- Do you approach blind bends at different speeds ?

And what way do you drive in the above scenarios? According to a chart in the car is it?

All tyres have a stopping distance. It can change without a visual indication of how the road is.

Obviously better tyres are better. But when people say what speed will you drive on a motorway with tyres with less grip, its like asking how long is a piece of string.

The wet back roads are noticeably more slippy with cheap tyres all the same. Or going around wet roundabouts.

Alun

power pants wrote: »

I appreciate that this is a Continental produced video

you clearly dont though. Its just marketing for certain people to lap up

There are plenty of other videos and online tests produced by motoring magazines and motoring organizations that confirm the same results.

Are they all in on the conspiracy too then?

samih

ted1 wrote: »

Perhaps you should do Dan advanced driving course, pushing the brakes as hard as you can isn't always the best response , sometimes it's best to pump them

Not with the ABS though.

power pants

Alun wrote: »

There are plenty of other videos and online tests produced by motoring magazines and motoring organizations that confirm the same results.

Are they all in on the conspiracy too then?

Conspiracy? who said that?

it's a biased point of view from another tyre company that is all

Special Circumstances

power pants wrote: »

Conspiracy? who said that?

it's a biased point of view from another tyre company that is all

If all tyre tests show Michelin budget tyres to be better than yinzhong Slidegoods there are 3 options
A) it's the truth
it's lies, and therefore a conspiracy for all the lies to be so consistent
C) they're doing it wrong

Why do I even bother feeding the troll:(

Alun

power pants wrote: »

Conspiracy? who said that?

it's a biased point of view from another tyre company that is all

You were implying it was a biassed view, as opposed to an objective one, and I was just pointing out that a number of unbiassed sources were effectively saying the same thing.

So if you're dismissing their opinions too, which admittedly you haven't explicitly said, but have implied, then according to you either they're lying, incompetent or in on some kind of cosy conspiracy with the tyre manufacturers. Which is it?

Cuddlesworth

Do you have unbiased proof that says otherwise?

samih

It's really easy to test this yourself if you have worn premium tyres: Buy new ditchfinders on a rainy day. Just before getting there find a roundabout and do a few laps noting the speed and feel. Then do the same on your new Hitwall Powerslides. It's almost guaranteed that your bald premiums have a better grip.

Take them back and ask for proper tyres. Repeat the test.

Bruthal

Cheap ones are very noticeable on wet roundabouts alright. Even going straight through to the opposite exit, it is noticeable.

power pants

samih wrote: »

It's really easy to test this yourself if you have worn premium tyres: Buy new ditchfinders on a rainy day. Just before getting there find a roundabout and do a few laps noting the speed and feel. Then do the same on your new Hitwall Powerslides. It's almost guaranteed that your bald premiums have a better grip.

Take them back and ask for proper tyres. Repeat the test.

again utter nonsense



the driver not the tyres are responsible for any action on the road


Ive yet to read a crash report(from a court of law) where budget tyres were directly responsible to a crash


People are sheep, if a brand tells them they are the best, most will believe that.

Thats fine too, just dont slate other brands when you dont know what you are talking about

supersplit

07Lapierre wrote: »

At 10 miles per hour??? ABS won't activate at such a low speed.

You sure about this? I hit the brakes this morning on a clear road in a housing estate to see what the traction was like in the snow before continuing my journey and the abs kicked in and i was only rolling.

samih

power pants wrote: »

again utter nonsense



the driver not the tyres are responsible for any action on the road


Ive yet to read a crash report(from a court of law) where budget tyres were directly responsible to a crash


People are sheep, if a brand tells them they are the best, most will believe that.

Thats fine too, just dont slate other brands when you dont know what you are talking about

I didn't say anything about crashing? Just that you would need to be bit of a hamfisted driver if you didn't feel the difference in grip levels between safe and "affordable" tyres.

kerten

Bruthal wrote: »

And what way do you drive in the above scenarios? According to a chart in the car is it?

All tyres have a stopping distance. It can change without a visual indication of how the road is.

Obviously better tyres are better. But when people say what speed will you drive on a motorway with tyres with less grip, its like asking how long is a piece of string.

Nope. I buy my tyres based on their grip/wet performance data collected from multiple tests and backing up user reviews not the advertisement or performance rating calculated by the manufacturer. And that doesn't mean I have to buy the most expensive tyres. Last ones I bought were Uniroyals/Kumhos/Hankooks.

There have been cases I bought cars with chinese crap on them. I didn't need to read tests to notice their easy to reach limits.

Until I could change them(in couple of weeks most), I was driving 20-30% slower than I normally do on wet motorway, backroads with a 50-60% longer following distance. Reason I asked is to see what people means by driving accordingly really ?

Driving slow and at distance still doesn't cover the case of someone jump in front of your car case.


Yes a good tyre may save lives/money/time or not in your lifetime. And it is not the only factor in an emergency manouver you have to make in a car in those cases.

It is all about how much you want to chance your and other's life in the process.



Also let's not mix things here:

Driving according to car's limits is safe driving practice

but

Suggesting it is perfectly fine to lower some of those limits to save money where we share road with other people and cars is ridiculous.

/rant

For anyone who doesn't agree, here are couple of more advice to save more money on car maintenance :

- You can save money keeping tyres on car if they have enough tread even they are 10 years old
It is all marketing telling us tyres lose their grip with age as well

- You can save money by using part worn brake pads/discs
Car will stop somehow anyway, just drive accordingly

- You can save money by ignoring abs light on dash that says it is out of service
There wasn't ABS in old cars so what is the point. Just drive accordingly

- You can save money by ignoring airbag lights pointing they are not operational in a car that you carry your family around
I drive accordingly to not to involve any accident problem solved

- You can save money by ignoring when steering wheel or all car starts shaking at speed.
If you drive slow, it doesn't shake so where is the problem

/rant over

bd2012

How accurate are tyre ratings? I just had a look at the nordexx and they're rated B for wet grip, which doesn't seem all that bad?

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/nordexx/ns9000/

mullingar

bd2012 wrote: »

How accurate are tyre ratings? I just had a look at the nordexx and they're rated B for wet grip, which doesn't seem all that bad?

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/nordexx/ns9000/

Try this:

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/nordexx/comus/

These would be the most common due to the higher profit margin

kerten

bd2012 wrote: »

How accurate are tyre ratings? I just had a look at the nordexx and they're rated B for wet grip, which doesn't seem all that bad?

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/nordexx/ns9000/

I wouldn't rely on them to be honest. I recommend reading user reviews of the particular model you are after and try to find multiple tests done on them.

As some of these tests are biased/funded, try to correlate what tests and user reviews says for the particular model.

bd2012

mullingar wrote: »

Try this:

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/nordexx/comus/

These would be the most common due to the higher profit margin

Yikes!! Not good! Was a genuine question though, not looking to stir or further any argument, how reliable are those ratings?

Edit- just saw your reply Kerten. much obliged!

samih

bd2012 wrote: »

How accurate are tyre ratings? I just had a look at the nordexx and they're rated B for wet grip, which doesn't seem all that bad?

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/nordexx/ns9000/

It's currently (or at least was until beginning of this year) manufacturer themselves than rate their product. So the ratings have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Probably only really valid when comparing each manufacturer's range.

The big players are quite self policing as it's easy for the competing manufacturer to dispute ratings of competitor if they are extracting the urine. But the "other" brands that nobody has heard of can do pretty much what they like.

power pants

kerten wrote: »

I wouldn't rely on them to be honest. I recommend reading user reviews of the particular model you are after and try to find multiple tests done on them.

As some of these tests are biased/funded, try to correlate what tests and user reviews says for the particular model.

user reviews can just be other companies slating their rivals

tyres are tyres


drive correctly at all times and thats about it really

kerten

power pants wrote: »

user reviews can just be other companies slating their rivals

tyres are tyres


drive correctly at all times and thats about it really

So how do you pick which tyre to buy other than the price ?