Luas strike general thread (mandatory: read warning in post #1)

n97 mini

cdebru wrote: »

No there is evidence they are going to the toilet as per the companies own rule rather than using a pub, restaurant, hedge as they normally do

I have my doubts about the veracity of this. Are they leaving a tram full of people while they're in the hedge, because it's interruptions to service because of toilet breaks that are being recorded.

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

I have my doubts about the veracity of this. Are they leaving a tram full of people while they're in the hedge, because it's interruptions to service because of toilet breaks that are being recorded.

No this is when they reach their terminus out in cherry wood or wherever, they are going to the toilet somewhere out there but there is no official place for them to go, the rule is if they need to go they report to a controller who brings them back to the depot empty and they use the facilities there, that is what they are doing now prior to this they were going in a bush or pub or whatever is available, its when the tram is empty.

tabbey

I am not a supporter of the industrial actio,or the pay claim, but a decent toilet at termini and points on route, are the least the drivers deserve.

oppenheimer1

tabbey wrote: »

I am not a supporter of the industrial actio,or the pay claim, but a decent toilet at termini and points on route, are the least the drivers deserve.

Then why haven't the drivers asked for this? Why is this only a problem when their outrageous pay claim has been dismissed?

These greedy drivers are looking at the protected employees in CIE and across the water in TFL. However unlike the workers in those companies, they cannot hold the populations to ransom. It is relatively easy to make alternative arrangements to using luas for most people.

I really hope the drivers get nothing. Better yet, transdev pull out and they are left to swing. I'd rather see Dublin go without luas for a couple of months than cave to these clowns. The city would gain in the long run.

n97 mini

cdebru wrote: »

No this is when they reach their terminus out in cherry wood or wherever,

I'm still having trouble believing this. Next time I see an empty tram stopped on a platform I'll check the surrounding bushes for the driver.

Idbatterim

I really hope the drivers get nothing. Better yet, transdev pull out and they are left to swing. I'd rather see Dublin go without luas for a couple of months than cave to these clowns. The city would gain in the long run.

I totally agree, I have driven into town twice while luas workers were striking and the car parks were full, you had to q to get into them, its an inconvenience for people of course. But people will get about one way or another. Huge areas of dublin arent served by rail, if it takes a few weeks / months like you said, to train new staff etc, its worth doing..

end of the road

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Then why haven't the drivers asked for this? Why is this only a problem when their outrageous pay claim has been dismissed?

These greedy drivers are looking at the protected employees in CIE and across the water in TFL. However unlike the workers in those companies, they cannot hold the populations to ransom. It is relatively easy to make alternative arrangements to using luas for most people.

I really hope the drivers get nothing. Better yet, transdev pull out and they are left to swing. I'd rather see Dublin go without luas for a couple of months than cave to these clowns. The city would gain in the long run.

what would it gain? another strike at some stage again? no i think the odd day strike every few years is better then months without luas. by the way tfl aren't able to hold anyone to ransom.

Brendan Bendar

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Then why haven't the drivers asked for this? Why is this only a problem when their outrageous pay claim has been dismissed?

These greedy drivers are looking at the protected employees in CIE and across the water in TFL. However unlike the workers in those companies, they cannot hold the populations to ransom. It is relatively easy to make alternative arrangements to using luas for most people.

I really hope the drivers get nothing. Better yet, transdev pull out and they are left to swing. I'd rather see Dublin go without luas for a couple of months than cave to these clowns. The city would gain in the long run.

This has all the hallmarks of a shop steward getting all macho and cruntish.

The bottom line is that Dublin City can do well without the Luas for a good period.

Looks like the workforce has been led down the garden path here.

They would do well to look at what's happening and not be led by the nose by punters with other agendas.

oppenheimer1

end of the road wrote: »

what would it gain? another strike at some stage again? no i think the odd day strike every few years is better then months without luas. by the way tfl aren't able to hold anyone to ransom.

Increased driver pay simply means increased ticket prices. Increased ticket prices means the less well off are able to make fewer trips, it reduces the viability of working over social welfare. Essentially you end up serving the wants of the few over the needs of the many.

Yes, the drivers and staff of London underground regularly hold London to ransom. When the tubes are on strike it is near impossible to get around and the drivers know this. They leverage this chip to extract huge concessions from TFL. In the end it's the ordinary commuter there that pays, for an extremely over priced, unreliable metro system. Thankfully, Dublin doesn't depend on Luas to any extent like London does on the Tube.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm still having trouble believing this. Next time I see an empty tram stopped on a platform I'll check the surrounding bushes for the driver.

There is a staff toilet facility provided at the end of the platform at Bride's Glen.

cdebru

lxflyer wrote: »

There is a staff toilet facility provided at the end of the platform at Bride's Glen.

Which was out of service apparently, how long has it been out of service ? Was it out of service in the time given previously as an example of toilet breaks ?

LXFlyer

No idea and I'm not getting involved in that debate.

Just seemed the previous poster didn't believe there were such facilities, and I was correcting the record.

end of the road

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Increased driver pay simply means increased ticket prices.

would these be the same ticket prices that would probably rise anyway at some stage?

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Increased ticket prices means the less well off are able to make fewer trips, it reduces the viability of working over social welfare. Essentially you end up serving the wants of the few over the needs of the many.

how many people simply give up work to go on social wellfare? somehow i suspect its a minority.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Yes, the drivers and staff of London underground regularly hold London to ransom. When the tubes are on strike it is near impossible to get around and the drivers know this. They leverage this chip to extract huge concessions from TFL. In the end it's the ordinary commuter there that pays, for an extremely over priced, unreliable metro system.

having to use the bus instead of the tube isn't "holding to ransom"
the tube in my experience is a fantastic and very reliable service.

Peppa Pig

cdebru wrote: »

Which was out of service apparently, how long has it been out of service ? Was it out of service in the time given previously as an example of toilet breaks ?

Considering that the Red Line was severely delayed, the issue of Brides Glen is irrelevant.

It would only be remotely relevant if only the Green Line had a massive jump in toilet breaks.

There were 26 breaks taken over a few hours during the X-Factor live at the O2. Considering only 22 breaks were taken in the previous 5 weeks it's ridiculous to mention Brides Glen toilet in defending the action.

You probably know and realise this.

cdebru

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Considering that the Red Line was severely delayed, the issue of Brides Glen is irrelevant.

It would only be remotely relevant if only the Green Line had a massive jump in toilet breaks.

There were 26 breaks taken over a few hours during the X-Factor live at the O2. Considering only 22 breaks were taken in the previous 5 weeks it's ridiculous to mention Brides Glen toilet in defending the action.

You probably know and realise this.

I haven't read anywhere that this only affected the red line, and the RTE report specifically mentions the brides glen toilets as reportedly out of service.


http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0222/770022-luas/

Peppa Pig

cdebru wrote: »

I haven't read anywhere that this only affected the red line, and the RTE report specifically mentions the brides glen toilets as reportedly out of service.


http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0222/770022-luas/

It didn't only affect the red line. If the brides glen toilet was the cause of the issue, as you are wondering about, then we would only have seen an increase in breaks on the green line.

26 breaks during the X-Factor, leaving loads of young kids in the cold waiting on a tram has nothing to do with the green line toilets. It's a calculated vindictive action affecting mostly parents with young kids, with no warning.

end of the road

Peppa Pig wrote: »

26 breaks during the X-Factor, leaving loads of young kids in the cold waiting on a tram has nothing to do with the green line toilets. It's a calculated vindictive action affecting mostly parents with young kids, with no warning.

if you are going to try an emotional argument, i think the one you picked isn't the best choice myself.

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

if you are going to try an emotional argument, i think the one you picked isn't the best choice myself.

Pick a better one so.

Grandeeod

Grandeeod wrote: »

Pick a better one so.

Your response would have been....

"Its not up to me to provide an emotional argument."

It's a calculated vindictive action affecting mostly parents with young kids, with no warning.
Today 15:16

A truth.

Taco Chips

end of the road wrote: »

would these be the same ticket prices that would probably rise anyway at some stage?



how many people simply give up work to go on social wellfare? somehow i suspect its a minority.



having to use the bus instead of the tube isn't "holding to ransom"
the tube in my experience is a fantastic and very reliable service.

Costs rise naturally with inflation. Luas drivers want to stick their snout in and grab more money, accelerating cost increases and passing it on to consumers who are already paying for an expensive service. The demands are unjustifiable. Transdev offered them a wage increase tied to the CPI which would reflect naturally rising travel costs, but no they want more.

cdebru

Peppa Pig wrote: »

It didn't only affect the red line. If the brides glen toilet was the cause of the issue, as you are wondering about, then we would only have seen an increase in breaks on the green line.

26 breaks during the X-Factor, leaving loads of young kids in the cold waiting on a tram has nothing to do with the green line toilets. It's a calculated vindictive action affecting mostly parents with young kids, with no warning.

26 for all day saturday, 240 luas drivers afaik probably at least half of them work Saturday let's say 120 so about 20% of drivers needed to use the toilet during their working day, how many on average in an office of 120 people visit the toilet ? I would guess far more than 20%.

I haven't seen any claim that all 26 toilet breaks occurred on the redline during the xfactor concert have you any evidence to support that ?

Brendan Bendar

This dispute has jumped the rails of any credible grievance.

Getting close to the Ronald Reagan response.

Getting close.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

There is a staff toilet facility provided at the end of the platform at Bride's Glen.

Apparently they normally use hedges. I'll keep an eye out for them in hedges once normality returns.

cdebru wrote: »

No there is evidence they are going to the toilet as per the companies own rule rather than using a pub, restaurant, hedge as they normally do,

A driver in the Luas is worth two in the bush.

Infini

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

This dispute has jumped the rails of any credible grievance.

Getting close to the Ronald Reagan response.

Getting close.

Not even close. If it were coming close to that it there would be spillover into other sectors without a doubt.

n97 mini wrote: »

Apparently they normally use hedges. I'll keep an eye out for them in hedges once normality returns.

Ah come now not really fair that theyre forced to use a bush for relief now is it? Maybe thats the reason why theres such an increase of a sudden they've been hiding the issue behind the bushes so to speak!
Maybe they finally just god fed up with the whole thing and since its work to rule and its in the rules about bogger breaks.....

Brendan Bendar

Infini2 wrote: »

Not even close. If it were coming close to that it there would be spillover into other sectors without a doubt.

No way big man, other sectors would not be so stupid.

These guys are out on their own.

Infini

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

No way big man, other sectors would not be so stupid.

These guys are out on their own.

I doubt it. The dispute is obviously turning toxic the way things are going and its the result of a bad contract setup at the core of the issue. Has been stated the increases sought would be affordable if the luas was actually getting all the money it took in. Its the artificial budget and the RPA getting a significant chunk of the fares instead of the money going to those that DELIVER the service, ie the workers and staff on the ground who do the work that ultimately shows the problems up with the setup.

Brendan Bendar

Infini2 wrote: »

I doubt it. The dispute is obviously turning toxic the way things are going and its the result of a bad contract setup at the core of the issue. Has been stated the increases sought would be affordable if the luas was actually getting all the money it took in. Its the artificial budget and the RPA getting a significant chunk of the fares instead of the money going to those that DELIVER the service, ie the workers and staff on the ground who do the work that ultimately shows the problems up with the setup.

Nah, these lads have no support, either from the Public,or fellow sectors.

Seems to me a solo run by a warhorse who thirsts for confrontation and battle.

In other words,lad trying to make a name for himself Nd will walk away unscathed when all this is resolved.

The toilet stuff was a bad mistake, shows the level and paucity of grievance.


This one is a baaaad mistake, my friend, lemmings over a cliff stuff.

Peppa Pig

cdebru wrote: »

I haven't seen any claim that all 26 toilet breaks occurred on the redline during the xfactor concert have you any evidence to support that ?

This has resulted in 26 breaks being taken on Saturday, while the X Factor Live show was playing at the 3 Arena

link

cdebru wrote:

26 for all day saturday, 240 luas drivers afaik probably at least half of them work Saturday let's say 120 so about 20% of drivers needed to use the toilet during their working day,how many on average in an office of 120 people visit the toilet ? I would guess far more than 20%

So 1 in 5 needed a break on Saturday.
Compare that to 60 breaks in total in 5 weeks x 7 days x 120 drivers. Thus we have 60 breaks per 4220 driver days, or 1.7 per day on both lines.
That's an increase of 1529%.

GM228

No end in sight?

The company says that from Sunday morning, it is setting a limit of three toilet breaks in any 24-hour period, saying it gives more than ample scope for genuine cases over the course of the working day.

They warn that they will be making "proportionate" payroll adjustments to reflect this unofficial action.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0226/771062-luas-talks/

Infini

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nah, these lads have no support, either from the Public,or fellow sectors.

Seems to me a solo run by a warhorse who thirsts for confrontation and battle.

In other words,lad trying to make a name for himself Nd will walk away unscathed when all this is resolved.

The toilet stuff was a bad mistake, shows the level and paucity of grievance.


This one is a baaaad mistake, my friend, lemmings over a cliff stuff.

Public support makes little difference its who blinks first when it comes down to it. Fact is this is the kind of strike that might have not been seen since the old days of the 80s. The ones that get real vicious once the gloves are off.

GM228 wrote: »

No end in sight?



http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0226/771062-luas-talks/

Its gonna get ugly and it'll get nasty as well. Try docking pay and sacking staff and see what happens.