Luas strike general thread (mandatory: read warning in post #1)

end of the road

tabbey wrote: »

There are thousands of good people who would love to have these jobs.

so what if they're are? thats not anyone elses problem. always thousands who would supposibly love the job but when opportunities existed how many applied?

tabbey wrote: »

For their sake, and that of frugal living citizens around the country, The pay claim must be resisted by management, government and WRC.

others being unemployed is not a reason to resist something. this is a dispute between a company and its staff, the unemployed are irrelevant to it.

tabbey wrote: »

It would be better to liquidate the present operation, and set up a replacement service, than give in to this blackmail.

and how long would that take? people complaining about a couple of days striking yet would rather more disruption. makes no sense to me.

Infini

PeadarCo wrote: »

All I'm asking that the taxpayer payer get value for money and staff justify their wages. A very simple concept and the bedrock of any well organisation.

That fact that you consider the idea of taxpayers getting value for money as "scab labour" says more about yourself than anything else.

"Value for taxpayer" is more and more a copout excuse to try and pay less without any real reaso n. Theres room for improvement in any job but it has to be done reasonably.

As for your little comment on scab labour its exactly what it is. Advocating bringing in people on lower wages to do someone elses job is exploitation and nothing else. So dont try using that reasoning.

end of the road

Bowlardo wrote: »

Luas drivers are an absolute disgrace. If they thought they were getting abuse before imagine what going to happen after this and rightly so

no, not rightly so at all. i would imagine most people will continue to behave themselves as they always have regardless of their opinion on luas staff. if anybody does abuse luas staff, they should be removed from a tram, and if needs be banned from using the service.

trellheim

Sure it sucks and its a pain but its not the end of the world. Its given notice well in advance for people to make alternative plans

fk sake theres some entitled knobs on here. Do you not see the people on the low wage who go in and out from Tallaght or wherever to a low paid job in the city centre on the LUAS - there is little alternative cos DB dont run many buses where the LUAS goes any more. How do you think that girl feels about these dipsticks wanting 50% more when she's on her last late warning cos the child still needs to go to the creche and she needs to get to the job ?

cdebru

PeadarCo wrote: »

A question for you why should the government or anybody else pay above the living wage if they don't need to, to attract staff of sufficient quality to do a job? As we've found out over the last couple of years the government doesn't have a bottomless pit of money. There are plenty of people who need help a lot more than luas drivers.

Who says you could get sufficient quality staff at a lower wage ?

Infini

trellheim wrote: »

Do you not see the people on the low wage who go in and out from Tallaght or wherever to a low paid job in the city centre on the LUAS - there is little alternative cos DB dont run many buses where the LUAS goes any more. How do you think that girl feels about these dipsticks wanting 50% more when she's on her last late warning cos the child still needs to go to the creche and she needs to get to the job ?

Besides the fact that would be her problem if she doesnt make alternative arrangements when theres warning of it happening it also speaks poorly of her employer as well if they cant even make leeway for circumstances beyond her control. Regardless poor argument.

Peppa Pig

Infini2 wrote: »

that would be her problem if she doesnt make alternative arrangements when theres warning of it happening

Care to name a few alternatives for a low paid worker?

If everyone could make alternative arrangements that don't cost time or money then there would be no need for the luas.

So it's the publics fault they are delayed/out of pocket/losing hours waiting because notice was given. No blame apportioned to the guys who actually withdrew the service in the first place.

Interesting point of view.

suicide_circus

I love the notion that those who take issue with the Luas drivers' exorbitant claims are by extension advocating a "race to the bottom". A blatant and paper thin strawman argument which no one is buying lads.

I support any worker who is being maltreated, abused, kicked around, underappreciated or has any legitimate grievance or grounds for complaint. The Luas drivers are suffering none of these. They are being paid a decent living wage above the national industrial average and are actually doing quite well considering the level of training they did and stress they're under. They have been receiving increments and bonuses despite the recession and despite company losses. They have not been asked to change work practice's or increase productivity and the company has stuck by their commitments and even offered a 3% pay increase.

Their claim for a +50% pay rise has no foundation in reality and smacks of little more than a cash grab. Since they offer no incentive to the company by way of increased productivity we can only assume that they expect the general public to foot the bill by way of fare increases.

I believe the drives have been badly advised and seriously let down by SIPTU who seem to have got this one very very wrong.

PeadarCo

cdebru wrote:

Who says you could get sufficient quality staff at a lower wage ?

Judging from the papers all you need is a clean drivers license. Not exactly a demanding minimum requirement for the Luas. The people who run the Luas obviously feel any other skill is easily trainable

So ye I'd be very confident there'd be people out there who could do the job for less including many of the people unemployed. It'd be a particularly suitable job for the longterm unemployed given the lack of upfront skills needed.

Infini

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Care to name a few alternatives for a low paid worker?

If everyone could make alternative arrangements that don't cost time or money then there would be no need for the luas.

So it's the publics fault they are delayed/out of pocket/losing hours waiting because notice was given. No blame apportioned to the guys who actually withdrew the service in the first place.

Interesting point of view.

The bus or getting a bike are options. Theres also asking for a lift from a friend if possible.

The public is being given notice that stike action is occuring. The workers are well within their rights to strike which is usually the last option when all other avenues are exhausted.

You can either be mad and rant about it till you feel better or not or simply do what everyone else HAS to do: deal with the situation and make alternative arrangements as necessary.

Peppa Pig

Infini2 wrote: »

The bus or getting a bike are options. Theres also asking for a lift from a friend if possible.

A bus would be grand providing they go at the frequency needed, to the creche and work- you know they don't, that why people use the Luas.

Getting a lift from a friend - which one - the one with time to drive into the city morning and afternoon or the one going to work themselves?

And a bike - dropping a child off to creche on a bike? Not really an option is it?, never mind the expense of having to buy a bike for a few days.

But like you say, the Luas staff must be thinking "I'm all right Jack" looking for my 50% rise and 10% bonus and 27 days holidays etc etc. It's up to the public to ensure they are not inconvenienced. We don't give a toss.

But if I don't give a toss about a ridiculous pay claim I get accused of supporting a race to the bottom.

Sweet Jesus....

end of the road

Peppa Pig wrote: »

And a bike - dropping a child off to creche on a bike? Not really an option is it?, never mind the expense of having to buy a bike for a few days.

why isn't it an option. people out the country years ago had to do exactly that, take a bike or walk to school. it was that or nothing. granted i'm not suggesting people should take a bike, but it is doable. you would get to keep that bike forever, you could go cycling down the country during the holidays and so fourth. strike or no strike it would be a worth while investment.

howiya

end of the road wrote: »

why isn't it an option. people out the country years ago had to do exactly that, take a bike or walk to school. it was that or nothing. granted i'm not suggesting people should take a bike, but it is doable. you would get to keep that bike forever, you could go cycling down the country during the holidays and so fourth. strike or no strike it would be a worth while investment.

Ah yes, the girl who probably can't afford a taxi to work should go out and buy a bike

syklops

end of the road wrote: »

why isn't it an option. people out the country years ago had to do exactly that, take a bike or walk to school. it was that or nothing. granted i'm not suggesting people should take a bike, but it is doable. you would get to keep that bike forever, you could go cycling down the country during the holidays and so fourth. strike or no strike it would be a worth while investment.

You're right. Lets give up on public transport altogether. Its too much hassle. The money saved on no longer building and running trams and buses could be saved and given to every citizen to go buy bikes and cars. Although, instead of a 50% percent increase, the Luas drivers would get a 100% decrease, but Im sure they'd be happy with that right?

trellheim

Besides the fact that would be her problem if she doesnt make alternative arrangements when theres warning of it happening it also speaks poorly of her employer as well if they cant even make leeway for circumstances beyond her control. Regardless poor argument.

The real world isnt knocking on your door at all, is it ? Great being a keyboard warrior while people are actually trying to make a life

n97 mini

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Care to name a few alternatives for a low paid worker?

I have seen it suggested here before that people just switch to taxis when there are public transport strikes.

In other words, let them eat cake.

monument

As with all warning, this applies to all posters:

trellheim wrote: »

The real world isnt knocking on your door at all, is it ? Great being a keyboard warrior while people are actually trying to make a life

Play the post and not the poster.

-- modrarator

myshirt

I am seriously onside for the 'Put the Brick on the Accelerator' option.

We're all but there on self driving cars, who have to make more decisions than a tram would have to. That'd soften their cough.

Brendan Bendar

This dispute has taken a turn for the worst, in fact it reminds one of the bad old days in Aer Lingus.

Seems like there is an upsurge in 'toilet breaks' which has disrupted the service even further.

Looks like the parties are miles apart in outlook,and this one will take a lot of ' banging heads' together to get sorted.

Seems there is a bit of a 'solo run' by some on the Union side out there?

n97 mini

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Seems like there is an upsurge in 'toilet breaks' which has disrupted the service even further.

I read that. More toilet breaks in one day that the previous month, and SIPTU deny any knowledge.

cardinal tetra

n97 mini wrote: »

I read that. More toilet breaks in one day that the previous month, and SIPTU deny any knowledge.

Transdev should simply remove the toilet roll from the facilities.

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

I read that. More toilet breaks in one day that the previous month, and SIPTU deny any knowledge.

That's what happens when these things drag on, it gets messy ( excuse the pun)

Jamie2k9

cardinal tetra wrote: »

Transdev should simply remove the toilet roll from the facilities.

What they should do is take legal action and force SIPTU to cancel the work to rule, hold another vote and give another 3 weeks notice.

SIPTU need to be careful here. Transdev will screw them if they can win.

Brendan Bendar

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What they should do is take legal action and force SIPTU to cancel the work to rule, hold another vote and give another 3 weeks notice.

SIPTU need to be careful here. Transdev will screw them if they can win.

Seems to me, and I'm only surmising now, that some shop steward has 'burst the bolts'as it were, and went for the Mother Lode.

This dispute is laughable,form a commercial point of view.

SIPTU surely have some kind of a case to answer surely?

No?

...And Justice

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Seems to me, and I'm only surmising now, that some shop steward has 'burst the bolts'as it were, and went for the Mother Lode.

This dispute is laughable,form a commercial point of view.

SIPTU surely have some kind of a case to answer surely?

No?

I remember in the 1990's when I was young and in a different career, siptu got us on strike over pay and conditions. And most of the guys were happy , other than the shop steward, who was for the record, a loud mouth. The result was a pay rise for 75% of us with back breaking extra work and a 25% reduction of our staff.

Brendan Bendar

...And Justice wrote: »

I remember in the 1990's when I was young and in a different career, siptu got us on strike over pay and conditions. And most of the guys were happy , other than the shop steward, who was for the record, a loud mouth. The result was a pay rise for 75% of us with back breaking extra work and a 25% reduction of our staff.

Not saying that that is the scenario here Justice, but it has all the hallmarks.

As I see it,in most similar companies you will have a 'bull goose' who is a contrary person.

Unfortunately it's difficult to shout these people down as they tend to be driven and obsessed by a sense of 'being done down'.

I know plenty of them and unfortunately they just don't listen to reason.

Hopefully the workforce will see sense and tell whoever is leading this to get real and stop costing them money.

...And Justice

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Not saying that that is the scenario here Justice, but it has all the hallmarks.

As I see it,in most similar companies you will have a 'bull goose' who is a contrary person.

Unfortunately it's difficult to shout these people down as they tend to be driven and obsessed by a sense of 'being done down'.

I know plenty of them and unfortunately they just don't listen to reason.

Hopefully the workforce will see sense and tell whoever is leading this to get real and stop costing them money.

These Muppets, and I know a few of them needed to get back to work, even the new guys think this is madness. I know one guy that nearly had his house repossessed last year , and all he wants to do is drive the tram.

FFS, siptu, doesn't represent everyone, just an opinion of some idiots being egged on by a defunct union.

Cookie_Monster

...And Justice wrote: »

FFS, siptu, doesn't represent everyone, just an opinion of some idiots being egged on by a defunct union.

well surely if they are voting to strike in the first place at least 51% of the staff's opinions are represented rather than just 'some'?

Brendan Bendar

...And Justice wrote: »

These Muppets, and I know a few of them needed to get back to work, even the new guys think this is madness. I know one guy that nearly had his house repossessed last year , and all he wants to do is drive the tram.

FFS, siptu, doesn't represent everyone, just an opinion of some idiots being egged on by a defunct union.

Cannot understand this one Justice .

Should be a system to saddle SIPTU with the cost of this.

Nobody I know can justify this madness.

Surely there should be some recourse from the company to recover costs for this appalling action.

GM228

cardinal tetra wrote:

Transdev should simply remove the toilet roll from the facilitie

Jamie2k9 wrote:

What they should do is take legal action and force SIPTU to cancel the work to rule, hold another vote and give another 3 weeks notice.

SIPTU need to be careful here. Transdev will screw them if they can win.

Regarding the toilet breaks if Transdev took legal action based on that issue alone, SIPTU/the drivers would no doubt say that Transdevs issue was not about a work to rule, but rather trying to block a basic human right?