Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

arybvtcw0eolkf

average hero wrote: »

I have done Judo in two clubs. One under a sophisticated, technique-based coach and my current one who is a scrapper-type of judo coach. For me, I absolutely prefer my current coach. I find I learn more by doing more sparring (randori) and we do it in a fairly rough and ready grappling/judo/wrestling style. The techniques will come when I am ready for them.

The problem with that kind of club (the latter) if you're not an assertive type of person the only thing the newbie is going to learn is how to bless themselves, and get overly defensive [IMO].

I learned most of my Judo in a very technical club with very little randori, and learned how to apply it in my present club..

A problem I find with Judo clubs, and to a lesser extent BJJ clubs (but then I can only really draw on experience with Team Ryano).

Judo club head coaches are slow to utilize their black belts, ie the head coach 'tends to give the same class to browns and blacks as he does to lower grades.

Andy utilizes his black belts, and this IMO and drawing on my military experience in methods of instruction is the way to teach a class ~ from speaking to people most BJJ clubs do this (ie utilize their higher grades).

Mellor

Phoebe Full Overlap wrote: »

My 'go to' throws are Osoto Gari, Uchi Mata, & Harai goshi, but its what does on to set those up is where experience comes in.

Kinda surprised it's not Osoto Phoebe Full Overlap, Uchi Phoebe Full Overlap, & Harai Phoebe Full Overlap

average hero wrote: »

Hey Mellor - just a post from me in relation to Judo.

As Phoebe Full Overlap said above, it depends on your coach and club. You could learn all of the 'moves' and grade within a week, but the skill in it is in seeing how:
- you grip fight. both knowing them and knowing how to use them (I only discovered proper grip fighting in later belts)
- knowing how you react to being pulled around a mat and how to counter
- knowing how to illicit a reaction from an opponent, whether that is a step/misstep or a grip
- uchi komi (breaking balance)
- and hitting the throws from an actively resisting judoka

Just to give you a bit of perspective on where I'm coming form. I have a couple of throws I'm comfortable with. Not dissimilar to the list above. Seoi nage, osoto gari, harai goshi. And a few of the other main throws as set ups.
I know to get better with by stand up, I just need to put the time in over and over with the above.

But in addition to that. I also need to demonstrate various throws for our gradings in jiu jitsu. For blue 8 throws. For purple, its 12. These are mostly from the first 3 groups. Covering 16 out of 24. The missing 8 are mostly variations of the ones I have to know. (kosoto gake/kosoto gari, O-guruma/ashi guruma).

As I mentioned, I've no realy interest in chasing competitive Judo, as BJJ is my focus. But at the same time, I'm kinda thinking, if I've done most of the work for the first 3 (non-competion) ranks why not complete it for the sake of it. Pipe dreams maybe.

RoboRat

I gave up Judo because it has been diluted too much and is focused on the Ippon (and the Olympics) at the detriment of being a very effective martial art. I'm not saying it's not effective, but it's nowhere near as effective as it used to be.

uchi komi (breaking balance)

The most underestimated facet of a Judo throw by non Judoka IMO

arybvtcw0eolkf

RoboRat wrote: »

I gave up Judo because it has been diluted too much and is focused on the Ippon (and the Olympics) at the detriment of being a very effective martial art. I'm not saying it's not effective, but it's nowhere near as effective as it used to be.


The most underestimated facet of a Judo throw by non Judoka IMO

Hard to argue with that. I've yet to met anyone who likes the direction Judo has taken since the last two Olympics.

Effectiveness is subjective.

Although leg grabs are banned that's ONLY for competition, clubs are free to train for them. We do, but in the run up to a competition I won't do any leg grabs in case I do it out of habit at the comp.

Other than that so will argue that we're seeing more big ippons and as a spectator sport its more exciting now, I somewhat agree.

Anyway, this is what Judo lost;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrk6fZ9P6a4

But we still have all this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa_W6e6qhVY

arybvtcw0eolkf

Mellor wrote: »

Kinda surprised it's not Osoto Makikomi, Uchi Makikomi, & Harai Makikomi

Guess what?...

average hero

Hey Mellor,

That context was helpful. I wasn't trying to be a smartass or anything.

I'd say go for it if you are doing BJJ anyway! Can I ask what belt / level you are at with BJJ?

I'd say you are easily at Orange/Green belt in Judo. At Green it starts to become a bit steeper of a learning curve - but at that stage it is (only!) blue, brown and then black.

As Makikomi says - they are two sides of the same coin

RoboRat

Other than that so will argue that we're seeing more big ippons and as a spectator sport its more exciting now, I somewhat agree.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good ippon and I agree that they are far more exciting, I just feel that the fluidity has somewhat diminished as everyone is looking for, or defending the ippon.

I preferred the older rule sets as it gave people more opportunities. Some people have more explosive power, it's just genetic, and having other options leveled the playing field somewhat and also made those with the explosive power focus on parts of their game that where they may not be as good.

I can see the rationale, to stay in the Olympics they need to have bums on the seats and the ippons do that. I just preferred the older rules.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RoboRat wrote: »

I can see the rationale, to stay in the Olympics they need to have bums on the seats and the ippons do that. I just preferred the older rules.

I prefer the old rules too, and we still train them in Portmarnock.

I hear some people argue that BJJ should be an olympic sport, well IMO getting into the Olympics would destroy it.

And like it or not most grappling styles are still relatively small when it comes to competition participation in this country, and if you don't believe that I'd suggest anyone attend a TKD, karate or kickboxing tournament.

Chairman Meow

I ended up watching a ton of the Judo championships in Baku there last month. Really fun stuff. As much as i love BJJ, i just love watching Judo more than watching BJJ. My goal for 2019 is to get my chest/respiratory issues fixed and finally be healthy enough to get back to Judo and earn that first belt before my 40th Birthday

arybvtcw0eolkf

Chairman Meow wrote: »

I ended up watching a ton of the Judo championships in Baku there last month. Really fun stuff. As much as i love BJJ, i just love watching Judo more than watching BJJ. My goal for 2019 is to get my chest/respiratory issues fixed and finally be healthy enough to get back to Judo and earn that first belt before my 40th Birthday

Watching a BJJ competition is like watching paint dry.

Baku is great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipFCDroD2C4

cletus

Phoebe Full Overlap wrote: »

Watching a BJJ competition is like watching paint dry.

Baku is great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipFCDroD2C4

Depends on the comp. A lot of the new no-gi sub only stuff is fun and interesting, EBI, Quintet, Submission Underground, Polaris.

MagicIRL

I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds BJJ boring to watch! Highlights are class but watching a match from start to finish is so dull :pac:

We spent class yesterday doing two takedowns/foot sweeps and honestly it was some of the most fun I've had drilling a technique in a long, long time. Maybe because it felt so new to me that it just kept my attention?

Anyway - my knuckles are red from the gi and I've got less skin than when I started. 10/10 would sweep again.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Anyone cross training in Judo might be interested in seeing Jack Dennis from Lusk Judo Kan who in his 70's recently took GOLD in the Vets World Judo Championships in Cancun on the Ray Darcy Show RTE One on Saturday night

An incredible achievement.

Black Sheep

I recently signed up to UFC fight pass.

It was on a bit of a whim, really, but basically it is 71 euro for the year (thereabouts) if you make a 12 month commitment.

One of the things that swung me is that they have Polaris, EBI, Quintet etc.

Re: BJJ being like paint drying. It must be pretty subjective, because I would have said just the opposite to Makikomi - I find Judo quite boring to watch a lot of the time, whereas with BJJ I find it very compelling. Maybe it comes down to where the viewer's main interest and knowledge base lies.

Probably the most entertaining pro grappling match I have seen to date is AJ Azagarm v Daniel Strauss on Polaris. What an entertaining fight, still available free on YouTube.

badbeatcentral

Anyone know any dublin clubs that have no-gi open mats on a Sunday that are open to non-members?

mickydcork

Black Sheep wrote: »

I recently signed up to UFC fight pass.

It was on a bit of a whim, really, but basically it is 71 euro for the year (thereabouts) if you make a 12 month commitment.

One of the things that swung me is that they have Polaris, EBI, Quintet etc.

Re: BJJ being like paint drying. It must be pretty subjective, because I would have said just the opposite to Makikomi - I find Judo quite boring to watch a lot of the time, whereas with BJJ I find it very compelling. Maybe it comes down to where the viewer's main interest and knowledge base lies.

Probably the most entertaining pro grappling match I have seen to date is AJ Azagarm v Daniel Strauss on Polaris. What an entertaining fight, still available free on YouTube.

Quintet is super entertaining!

Dtp1979

I just heard recently that Kieran Davern and joey Breslin got their black belts under John kavanagh. How many Irish black belts are there now?

Tazzimus

Cian Conlan got his as well the same night.

Mellor

Dtp1979 wrote: »

How many Irish black belts are there now?

It was around 50 a year and a half ago according to the Irish BJJ Facebook group. Maybe around 70 now. Possibly higher with Irish guys training in the UK or further overseas.

cletus

Well done to the lads. Remember the days when all belts from blue up could be tracked on a single page

RoboRat

Anyone going to the Grapple Kings in Feb? Interesting set up as it's a team event with 10 points for a ref decision and 15 for a sub. It's Ireland v Poland this event with the winner going to the UK to face the English squad.

I will update when I get the final list of competitors but I think this will be huge.

Black Sheep

Considering how good the last Grapple Kings was I am definitely going!

rob316

Mellor wrote: »

It was around 50 a year and a half ago according to the Irish BJJ Facebook group. Maybe around 70 now. Possibly higher with Irish guys training in the UK or further overseas.

Some gyms are giving them out way too easily still. What ever you think about JK, all belts he rewards are overdue if anything.

I'm in an SBG gym, when I started 2 years ago there was a lad who left to go to another gym, he was a blue belt about a 6 months at the time. I saw his gyms FB page last month and there was a picture of him been awarded his brown belt.

roughly 2.5 years from blue to brown, I don't care how good he or his coaches think he is, the level must be ****.

Tazzimus

There are a few that have done it as quick, although they're usually full time at it.
Gunni got his black belt is near record time didn't he?

John is a hard man to get a belt from, makes it all the more worthwhile when you do get it.

rob316

Tazzimus wrote: »

There are a few that have done it as quick, although they're usually full time at it.
Gunni got his black belt is near record time didn't he?

John is a hard man to get a belt from, makes it all the more worthwhile when you do get it.

Ya Gunni got his from Gracie at 21, think he did about 4 years. I know for sure this guy isn't anywhere near his level.

RoboRat

Some gyms are giving them out way too easily still. What ever you think about JK, all belts he rewards are overdue if anything.

I only know of one place where I have seen what I would consider to be premature promotions in Ireland. I'm with Ryano and promotions are not easy and there are quite a few BB's, but having rolled with them, they are definitely at that level.

I think people getting their belts early is down to the instructor not being at the BB level themselves - if you have someone who is brown when they are realistically a high blue or low purple, then the instructor has probably done so to show that as a BB he can dominate a brown, which looks better than dominating a blue, which is expected.

Mellor

rob316 wrote: »

Some gyms are giving them out way too easily still.

I don't know enough about the scene in Ireland to comment on the standard.
But speaking generally, the belts don't represent the same level for everyone.
A 45 year old casual and a 25 year old pro operate on different scales.

Gunni was blue to brown in 2 years under JK btw.

I'm in an SBG gym, when I started 2 years ago there was a lad who left to go to another gym, he was a blue belt about a are 6 months at the time. I saw his gyms FB page last month and there was a picture of him been awarded his brown belt.

roughly 2.5 years from blue to brown, I don't care how good he or his coaches think he is, the level must be ****.

A sample of 1 person means nothing.
I know a guy who went white to black in 5 years. And his level would be significantly higher than your average black belt.

Those guys are outliers of course. Your FB friends probably isn't another phenom. But if he was winning comps at a decent purple level. Then, easier to justify it.

darced

rob316 wrote: »

Some gyms are giving them out way too easily still. What ever you think about JK, all belts he rewards are overdue if anything.

I'm in an SBG gym, when I started 2 years ago there was a lad who left to go to another gym, he was a blue belt about a 6 months at the time. I saw his gyms FB page last month and there was a picture of him been awarded his brown belt.

roughly 2.5 years from blue to brown, I don't care how good he or his coaches think he is, the level must be ****.

If there are 70 or so black belts I know at least 30 of them and they are all beasts who have at least a decade of BJJ behind them. I can't think of one who is not black belt level and nearly all were well over-due the promotion.

Now there are a lot of clubs now who I wouldn't know anything about but in the long established clubs a black belt is still extremely hard to get.

If he got his purple in 6 months at the new club then 2 years to brown is normal enough for someone training hard.

veganrun

Thinking of heading back to bjj next week. I broke my finger at the end of September but it's mostly better now. It still feels a bit off at times and the swelling hasn't gone away, but most of the pain is gone. The Dr said I can go back to bjj once I can make a fist and it's been like that for 2-3 weeks now. He also said I can expect pain for about 6 months.

I must be glutton for punishment

DrPhilG

veganrun wrote: »

I must be glutton for punishment

Aren't we all...

I've been out for 6 weeks with a thigh strain, followed by a sinus infection.

Hoping that the current run of antibiotics gets me back on the mat.