Motor Tax To Be Abolished by Renua

TheQuietFella

Gatling wrote: »

€4 billon in road tax last year no chance any party would scrap it

You're got to be kidding me!!!

They'll put an extra 50c per litre on all fuel and three years down the road

they'll re-introduce road tax saying it was a testing the process that just

didn't fit in or suit everyone but without reducing the overall cost!

Brasso

colm_mcm wrote: »

motor tax income is going to fall sharply as pre 08 cars die off.

For sure, over 95% of cars registered last year in bands A or B. That means they're paying €280 max per year, most paying less as about 72% are in band A. The issue will surely become more pronounced after the end of this year as the national fleet becomes younger.

cml387

TheQuietFella wrote: »

You're got to be kidding me!!!

They'll put an extra 50c per litre on all fuel and three years down the road

they'll re-introduce road tax saying it was a testing the process that just

didn't fit in or suit everyone but without reducing the overall cost!

Exactly.

Motor Tax was abolished in 1978, you know.

Bongalongherb

daRobot wrote: »

If you vote Renua into power:

http://www.thejournal.ie/renua-flat-tax-2368262-oct2015/#comment-4306641


Seeing as they're the only party to actually address this issue, do your job as a car lover and give them support.

Not a hope in hell I would give Renua a vote. This is just more lies they all use to capture your vote. No point in being gullible at this stage.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Brasso wrote: »

For sure, over 95% of cars registered last year in bands A or B. That means they're paying €280 max per year, most paying less as about 72% are in band A. The issue will surely become more pronounced after the end of this year as the national fleet becomes younger.

Good point. I'm sure they'll just move the band up to some other arbitrary date that totally wasn't pulled out of their hole.

Brasso

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Good point. I'm sure they'll just move the band up to some other arbitrary date that totally wasn't pulled out of their hole.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit. I do wonder though is the punitive €2,350 per annum top rate really necessary? Looking at the stats from 2015 again only 28 cars in band G (highest tax) were sold. Seems there just cutting themselves out of a lot of VRT income from more people buying more luxurious cars in a model range. Even if €1200 was the top rate I'm sure they could entice another 30 people to buy and they would end up with even tax take at the end of the year.

myshirt

I'm on board with the idea. Scrap Motor Tax, and just add tax to Petrol. Puts power into motorists hands, and those who use the roads most pay the most.

Two problems though:
1. Motor Tax revenue is not ring fenced for road services. Councils use it to pay their wages, lump sum retirement benefits, and defined benefit pensions to staff, along with a road services.
2. They have already taxed the absolute bollix out of fuel. I wonder how many know how much per litre goes to the public coffers. Near €0.78 at current pump prices. There is no legroom. Any more tax and it'll be washed diesel that the market will turn to.

bmwguy

The 4 billion motor tax figure given here sounds very high to me. There are approx 4 million people in the republic, obviously northern Ireland doesn't count in this instance.

4 billion would mean every man, woman and child paid an average of 1000 Euro on road tax.
A 2.5 car costs 1080 to tax annually.
Under 17s don't drive and a 2.5 car is very rare in Ireland.
Not every adult drives either, I would say 50% do (interested in this figure actually just out of interest)
I would say it's a billion at most but even at that it's 250 by every resident of the republic, 500 for every driver.

Still sounds high now that I think of it

Guy:Incognito

This is a great plan, vote them in and they abolish all the taxes and have their one income tax rate across the board (meaning all the tax burden is on workers) . A nice narrow tax base.

Thats great as long as everyone in the country is working and contributing, but what happens next time theres a recession and 300,000 people suddenly lose their jobs, instantly taking every cent of tax they paid out of the economy at once? Whereas under the current system they'd claim dole they'd still have to pay water bills, motor tax, household taxes etc , they now pay nothing whatsoever outside of vat on stuff they buy.


Suppose we can just borrow 20-30B a year for as long as we need, that'll be grand.......

kleefarr

Gatling wrote: »

€4 billon in road tax last year no chance any party would scrap it

The Government aren't interested in money. If they were they would legalise and regulate marijuana/cannabis and make a small fortune.

And apart from that, putting the road tax onto the price of petrol is the fairest way. That way you pay for what you use. My old lady who uses the car once a week will not have to pay the same as someone who uses it it 4 times a day.

daRobot

Augeo wrote: »

Hopefully most car lovers are also somewhat concerned about the bigger picture and won't vote for a political party based on one point.

Obviously this is a motoring forum, and this is the only party that have pledged to do something about this, so hence this is the primary point of the thread as I assumed you would gather.

But their 23% flat rate tax, capping of PS Pensions at 60k, all sound very enticing.

myshirt

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Suppose we can just borrow 20-30B a year for as long as we need, that'll be grand.......

It didn't bother the previous generation.

Money borrowed and lumped on your under 35's now to pay back. And, and, the same young people are busting their backs to pay exhorbitant rents to this same generation so they can live it up eating lobsters and smoking cigars.

Not a hope of owning a house. Not a hope of raising your kids with a quality of life. It's mostly been the river for these people, while you have plumbers and tradesmen who thought they were worth a grand a week, and yearn for it again.

But no lads. You weren't worth it. You're not worth it. It's lala land.

Baby Boomers need their wagon fixed if you ask me, but if not, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Borrow away, let's enjoy ourselves and pretend our socioeconomic place in society and own personal wealth is all of our doing.

Victor

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

it'd probably be in your favour.

if you drive a 1.9 diesel on the old system, your tax is 710 a year, right?

you don't have to pay that €710 any more so you can spend it on diesel, diesel is currently 1.05 and lets say they put 5c on (the figure that's usually thrown around in these threads), that's €1.10 per liter.

that means you could buy 645 liters of diesel with your motor tax saving, now if your diesel car will do 50 mpg, that's over 7100 miles of diesel. tidy bit of a saving in fairness.

You're just making up numbers.

Toyotafanboi

I think it's a reasonable example.

Guy commutes 15 hours a week, diesel is the most likely fuel.
Guy complains about the price of running a car, probably drives an older car
The majority of older diesels in Ireland are 1.9 - 2.0
The figure to ad to the fuel price to compensate for motor tax that is often quoted on here is around 5c per litre

The price of diesel is reasonably accurate as is my maths.

It may be a notional scenario but it is as factually correct as can be. If you have a more logical or realistic comparison, go ahead and give us a look.

Brasso

bmwguy wrote: »

The 4 billion motor tax figure given here sounds very high to me. There are approx 4 million people in the republic, obviously northern Ireland doesn't count in this instance.

4 billion would mean every man, woman and child paid an average of 1000 Euro on road tax.
A 2.5 car costs 1080 to tax annually.
Under 17s don't drive and a 2.5 car is very rare in Ireland.
Not every adult drives either, I would say 50% do (interested in this figure actually just out of interest)
I would say it's a billion at most but even at that it's 250 by every resident of the republic, 500 for every driver.

Still sounds high now that I think of it

Yeah seems too high alright, is that including VRT or something maybe?

I looked at the stats for licences, in 2012 2.414 million had full licences, I could only find 2012 population data that had ages 15-19 grouped as one, but I estimated that about 3.452 million people were over 17 in 2012. So that gives about 69.9% of adults holding a full licence, I could have misinterpreted some of the statistics but that sounds about right as Ireland is quite a car dependant country.

dr.fuzzenstein

kleefarr wrote: »

The Government aren't interested in money. If they were they would legalise and regulate marijuana/cannabis and make a small fortune.

And apart from that, putting the road tax onto the price of petrol is the fairest way. That way you pay for what you use. My old lady who uses the car once a week will not have to pay the same as someone who uses it it 4 times a day.

But she doesn't. The guy using it 4 times a day has big fuel bills. So there's a certain level of tax on the car itself and the rest is taken on fuel. So we already have that system. it's a daft idea and will never happen. Unless you fancy paying €2.50 for your fuel at some point.

Bongalongherb

All of us lazy folk should have made the following a priority a good while before election year... Put motor tax on petrol. I'm really sick of paying the same as some guzzler when I rarely use the car at this time. We should have made this an election issue as well, yes me included.

Toyotafanboi

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

But she doesn't. The guy using it 4 times a day has big fuel bills. So there's a certain level of tax on the car itself and the rest is taken on fuel. So we already have that system. it's a daft idea and will never happen. Unless you fancy paying €2.50 for your fuel at some point.

But by that logic then car tax should be a flat rate fee and not based on cc's or emissions. You pay for owning a car, then your car "useage tax" is on fuel.

Like the T.V. license, everybody pays it whether you watch RTE ten times a day or not at all. And you don't see people with 51" tv's paying more than people with 32". Not do you see people with A+ rated LED models paying less than.old folks with CRT models.

bmwguy

Brasso wrote: »

Yeah seems too high alright, is that including VRT or something maybe?

I looked at the stats for licences, in 2012 2.414 million had full licences, I could only find 2012 population data that had ages 15-19 grouped as one, but I estimated that about 3.452 million people were over 17 in 2012. So that gives about 69.9% of adults holding a full licence, I could have misinterpreted some of the statistics but that sounds about right as Ireland is quite a car dependant country.

well the figure quoted was for motor tax only, but I don't know where it came from. There are commercial vehicles that pay tax too I suppose. But no way is it approaching 4 million unless I am missing something. As you said there may be a figure lumped in there for something else, vrt or VAT on car sales. But this thread is about motor tax. So let's work off a figure of somewhere between 500 million and 1 billion which I think is more accurate.

And the 70% of adults that hold licences, not all of them drive. You have city dwellers a lot of whom would not need or have a car and of course of those that do drive, they would not own their own car. Husbands/wives sharing a car, teenagers and young adults driving parents cars and then of course the many that cannot afford a car or just choose not to. I can't see the figure even being close to a billion to be honest.

The tax revenues on fuel would likely be far higher and I did read somewhere (but I am not sure of the validity of this claim) that over half of the motor tax collected is expended in the administration and enforcement of motor tax.

Maybe it is a possibility they will scrap it. But we would need the real figures to start a proper discussion on how they would replace the tax revenue, and replace it they will!

Bongalongherb

Motor-Tax should be put on to fuel and I believe it is the fairest way for drivers imo.

BMJD

Hobbs, Creighton and the rest of that conservative shower of muppets in renua can go frig themselves

daRobot

daRobot wrote: »

...........

But their 23% flat rate tax, capping of PS Pensions at 60k, all sound very enticing.

:pac:

There is no way that will ever happen.

Enticing is all very well, one must engage the brain too.

9935452

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

it'd probably be in your favour.

if you drive a 1.9 diesel on the old system, your tax is 710 a year, right?

you don't have to pay that €710 any more so you can spend it on diesel, diesel is currently 1.05 and lets say they put 5c on (the figure that's usually thrown around in these threads), that's €1.10 per liter.

that means you could buy 645 liters of diesel with your motor tax saving, now if your diesel car will do 50 mpg, that's over 7100 miles of diesel. tidy bit of a saving in fairness.

I think in reality we know that whatever the government do regarding motor tax they wont lose out. I have read it in other places that if they replace motor tax with a tax on fuel , it will be minimum 30 to 50 c per litre (plus vat ) for the government to keep their income the same as it is.
i do 12000miles , car averaging 45mpg. Rough calculations at 5c per litre means i pay 60euro in extra tax a year ,
If the price of oil goes up it could be entirely possible that a litre of fuel could cost 2 euro a litre. it could cost 100-150 euro to fill the car up.
There could be an aweful lot of people crossing the border to fill up

daRobot

Augeo wrote: »

:pac:

There is no way that will ever happen.

Enticing is all very well, one must engage the brain too.

Pick a self serving liar with the best story. You should know the drill by now.

daRobot

Augeo wrote: »

:pac:

There is no way that will ever happen.

Enticing is all very well, one must engage the brain too.

Oh, and just a quick tip since we're talking about engaging the brain:

Don't speak in absolutes. It tends to make one sound ignorant.

It'd be better to say : "I doubt that will ever happen"

Because your assertion of a future 'fact' is just an assumption, you don't actually know what's going to happen.

You got it?

Supergurrier

Ridiculously outdated system as it is which has become bloated in terms of the amount of people needed to maintain it.

Sam Russell

Simple.

Put the motor tax on the insurance. No admin for the government but raise similar revenue. Change the rates to be fairer - VW admitted cheating their figures and I would think they are not alone.

Supergurrier

Sam Russell wrote: »

Simple.

Put the motor tax on the insurance. No admin for the government but raise similar revenue. Change the rates to be fairer - VW admitted cheating their figures and I would think they are not alone.

That makes zero sense :pac:

Mister Jingles

The fact that the government used the motor tax cash to fund Irish water really does go to show that it will never be abolished. It's a guaranteed income to the state and is only going to grow and grow as the years go on.

But as someone already said, it will be very interesting to see what the government will do when most of the pre 08 cc based cars are no longer on the roads in say 10 years time.


And as much as I would love to see changes to the motor tax system I still wouldn't vote for a party ( especially Renua ) solely based on that matter.

Bongalongherb

Sam Russell wrote: »

Simple.

Put the motor tax on the insurance. No admin for the government but raise similar revenue. Change the rates to be fairer - VW admitted cheating their figures and I would think they are not alone.

As if insurance doesn't cost enough as it is, changing the rates to be fairer would take an act of god to come into effect as well the way insurance companies do business these days.

The fairest solution I can see is what was already mentioned... put motor-tax to fuel and if you use more fuel you pay more tax simple and fair for the folk that don't drive much. It's the best way and the fairest way possible.