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Motor Tax To Be Abolished by Renua

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,520 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    only if I get a free iPad too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭thomas anderson.


    They'll get my vote


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    calmese1.php?anno=1977&mese=6


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    €4 billon in road tax last year no chance any party would scrap it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,520 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    yes. they're the same people that give out about every government.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Are people really that gullible to think the 'promises' will actually come through?


    I would like to counter that with a quote from Brendan Rodgers
    Originally Said by BRENDAN
    “I’ve always said that you can live without water for many days, but you can’t live for a second without hope.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭flyingsnail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,577 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Are they offering magic beans aswell?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    Gatling wrote: »
    €4 billon in road tax last year no chance any party would scrap it

    A fuel levy will replace it, so it's not like the four billion will be obliterated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,363 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Renua's election manifesto:


    2rrFBbH.gif


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    the price of interesting old cars, bangernomics cars etc would skyrocket, so it's not all good news for petrol heads, in fact, it could be worse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    (I am Liverpool supporter)

    As am I good sir ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    the price of interesting old cars, bangernomics cars etc would skyrocket, so it's not all good news for petrol heads, in fact, it could be worse.

    Nah, don't see that happening to be honest. Our prices aren't particularly higher than the UK for similar cars, where the rates are drastically lower.

    Now if they coupled it with scrapping VRT, it would absolutely transform what you see on the roads. But that seems unlikely.

    Down with sub 2.0 liter depression boxes, and V8's for all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭deandean




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,102 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    daRobot wrote: »
    If you vote Renua into power:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/renua-flat-tax-2368262-oct2015/#comment-4306641


    Seeing as they're the only party to actually address this issue, do your job as a car lover and give them support.

    There's no mention of that in their manifesto

    http://www.renuaireland.com/2016/01/04/manifesto/

    And also seems to be missing from their site

    http://www.renuaireland.com


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Are people really that gullible to think the 'promises' will actually come through?

    worked for Odumbo.... twice :facepalm:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 94 ✭✭gabe1977


    daRobot wrote: »
    A fuel levy will replace it, so it's not like the four billion will be obliterated.

    I take it that means they intend to penalise those that drive more.
    So those in rural areas that have rubbish public transport and no alternative but to commute large distances due to the fact there are no jobs in the locality are to be targeted by fuel levies.
    I commute 2.5hrs per day at great expense not by choice but because there are no better jobs nearby. There is no "recovery" in the west and there are no additional jobs.
    Some of these politicians can't seem to understand we can't all walk to the nearest public transport and get the next available bus, luas, dart etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    Del2005 wrote: »
    There's no mention of that in their manifesto

    http://www.renuaireland.com/2016/01/04/manifesto/

    And also seems to be missing from their site

    http://www.renuaireland.com


    I hadn't looked at their manifesto, but thanks to you linking to it, I did.

    And it's there on page 13, and 15 of the 76 page pdf document.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    gabe1977 wrote: »
    I take it that means they intend to penalise those that drive more.


    Yes, of course, what other way do you see it being fair? Penalise those who drive less?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    gabe1977 wrote: »
    I take it that means they intend to penalise those that drive more.
    So those in rural areas that have rubbish public transport and no alternative but to commute large distances due to the fact there are no jobs in the locality are to be targeted by fuel levies.
    I commute 2.5hrs per day at great expense not by choice but because there are no better jobs nearby. There is no "recovery" in the west and there are no additional jobs.
    Some of these politicians can't seem to understand we can't all walk to the nearest public transport and get the next available bus, luas, dart etc.

    it'd probably be in your favour.

    if you drive a 1.9 diesel on the old system, your tax is 710 a year, right?

    you don't have to pay that €710 any more so you can spend it on diesel, diesel is currently 1.05 and lets say they put 5c on (the figure that's usually thrown around in these threads), that's €1.10 per liter.

    that means you could buy 645 liters of diesel with your motor tax saving, now if your diesel car will do 50 mpg, that's over 7100 miles of diesel. tidy bit of a saving in fairness.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    it'd probably be in your favour.

    if you drive a 1.9 diesel on the old system, your tax is 710 a year, right?

    you don't have to pay that €710 any more so you can spend it on diesel, diesel is currently 1.05 and lets say they put 5c on (the figure that's usually thrown around in these threads), that's €1.10 per liter.

    that means you could buy 645 liters of diesel with your motor tax saving, now if your diesel car will do 50 mpg, that's over 7100 miles of diesel. tidy bit of a saving in fairness.

    And that is why turkeys will always vote for Christmas!
    The thinking of "oh, I'll save myself a lot of money!", not in a million years! Does anyone really think any government will bring in anything that makes anything cheaper for anyone? (Except the rich)
    And, a 5 cent levy? Are you kidding? You must be on the sauce early :p This is Ireland, 50 cent at the very least. The motto here is "Stupra Bastardus", screw the bastard for anything you can. You would refuse to make good money in this country if you could make a killing.
    You can choose not to get fcuked one way, but if you think you won't now get fcuked another way, you were born yesterday. The only choice we have is between crooks and loons, but to think we'll be better off somehow is ridiculous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,520 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    and keep in mind the price of petrol isn't gonna stay at it's current low point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    I'm not saying i'd be in favour at all.

    Just we are all so quick to cry poverty in Ireland without even doing the maths.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,520 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    motor tax income is going to fall sharply as pre 08 cars die off.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    daRobot wrote: »
    ..........

    Seeing as they're the only party to actually address this issue, do your job as a car lover and give them support.

    Hopefully most car lovers are also somewhat concerned about the bigger picture and won't vote for a political party based on one point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭Silvera


    the price of interesting old cars, bangernomics cars etc would skyrocket, so it's not all good news for petrol heads, in fact, it could be worse.

    If the powers-that-be even followed the Isle of Man example, and reduced road tax by 50% for vehicles over 25 years old, many a petrol head would be very pleased!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,412 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    If only there were no other considerations but motor tax...

    I'll keep paying the tax, to avoid their other bonkers notions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,412 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    If only there were no other considerations but motor tax...

    I'll keep paying the tax, to avoid their other bonkers notions.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Seriously, people here really think the government will do anything for a: older cars and b: larger engined cars?
    Nothing is hated more in Ireland by the state, SIMI and insurance companies. The expressed policy is to eradicate anything older than 10 years and anything over 2 liters. To think this will ever change is deluded. They want you to drive a 5 year old Focus and with a car that old, you should think of scrapping it and buy an nice, new shiny one. With a 1 liter petrol or 1.5 diesel.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,412 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Silvera wrote: »
    If the powers-that-be even followed the Isle of Man example, and reduced road tax by 50% for vehicles over 25 years old, many a petrol head would be very pleased!

    All very well, till you go looking for a quote.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Gatling wrote: »
    €4 billon in road tax last year no chance any party would scrap it

    You're got to be kidding me!!!

    They'll put an extra 50c per litre on all fuel and three years down the road

    they'll re-introduce road tax saying it was a testing the process that just

    didn't fit in or suit everyone but without reducing the overall cost!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 302 ✭✭Brasso


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    motor tax income is going to fall sharply as pre 08 cars die off.

    For sure, over 95% of cars registered last year in bands A or B. That means they're paying €280 max per year, most paying less as about 72% are in band A. The issue will surely become more pronounced after the end of this year as the national fleet becomes younger.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,644 ✭✭✭cml387


    You're got to be kidding me!!!

    They'll put an extra 50c per litre on all fuel and three years down the road

    they'll re-introduce road tax saying it was a testing the process that just

    didn't fit in or suit everyone but without reducing the overall cost!

    Exactly.

    Motor Tax was abolished in 1978, you know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    daRobot wrote: »
    If you vote Renua into power:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/renua-flat-tax-2368262-oct2015/#comment-4306641


    Seeing as they're the only party to actually address this issue, do your job as a car lover and give them support.

    Not a hope in hell I would give Renua a vote. This is just more lies they all use to capture your vote. No point in being gullible at this stage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Brasso wrote: »
    For sure, over 95% of cars registered last year in bands A or B. That means they're paying €280 max per year, most paying less as about 72% are in band A. The issue will surely become more pronounced after the end of this year as the national fleet becomes younger.

    Good point. I'm sure they'll just move the band up to some other arbitrary date that totally wasn't pulled out of their hole.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 302 ✭✭Brasso


    Good point. I'm sure they'll just move the band up to some other arbitrary date that totally wasn't pulled out of their hole.

    Wouldn't surprise me one bit. I do wonder though is the punitive €2,350 per annum top rate really necessary? Looking at the stats from 2015 again only 28 cars in band G (highest tax) were sold. Seems there just cutting themselves out of a lot of VRT income from more people buying more luxurious cars in a model range. Even if €1200 was the top rate I'm sure they could entice another 30 people to buy and they would end up with even tax take at the end of the year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    I'm on board with the idea. Scrap Motor Tax, and just add tax to Petrol. Puts power into motorists hands, and those who use the roads most pay the most.

    Two problems though:
    1. Motor Tax revenue is not ring fenced for road services. Councils use it to pay their wages, lump sum retirement benefits, and defined benefit pensions to staff, along with a road services.
    2. They have already taxed the absolute bollix out of fuel. I wonder how many know how much per litre goes to the public coffers. Near €0.78 at current pump prices. There is no legroom. Any more tax and it'll be washed diesel that the market will turn to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭bmwguy


    The 4 billion motor tax figure given here sounds very high to me. There are approx 4 million people in the republic, obviously northern Ireland doesn't count in this instance.

    4 billion would mean every man, woman and child paid an average of 1000 Euro on road tax.
    A 2.5 car costs 1080 to tax annually.
    Under 17s don't drive and a 2.5 car is very rare in Ireland.
    Not every adult drives either, I would say 50% do (interested in this figure actually just out of interest)
    I would say it's a billion at most but even at that it's 250 by every resident of the republic, 500 for every driver.

    Still sounds high now that I think of it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    This is a great plan, vote them in and they abolish all the taxes and have their one income tax rate across the board (meaning all the tax burden is on workers) . A nice narrow tax base.

    Thats great as long as everyone in the country is working and contributing, but what happens next time theres a recession and 300,000 people suddenly lose their jobs, instantly taking every cent of tax they paid out of the economy at once? Whereas under the current system they'd claim dole they'd still have to pay water bills, motor tax, household taxes etc , they now pay nothing whatsoever outside of vat on stuff they buy.


    Suppose we can just borrow 20-30B a year for as long as we need, that'll be grand.......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,744 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    Gatling wrote: »
    €4 billon in road tax last year no chance any party would scrap it

    The Government aren't interested in money. If they were they would legalise and regulate marijuana/cannabis and make a small fortune.

    And apart from that, putting the road tax onto the price of petrol is the fairest way. That way you pay for what you use. My old lady who uses the car once a week will not have to pay the same as someone who uses it it 4 times a day.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    Augeo wrote: »
    Hopefully most car lovers are also somewhat concerned about the bigger picture and won't vote for a political party based on one point.

    Obviously this is a motoring forum, and this is the only party that have pledged to do something about this, so hence this is the primary point of the thread as I assumed you would gather.

    But their 23% flat rate tax, capping of PS Pensions at 60k, all sound very enticing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt



    Suppose we can just borrow 20-30B a year for as long as we need, that'll be grand.......

    It didn't bother the previous generation.

    Money borrowed and lumped on your under 35's now to pay back. And, and, the same young people are busting their backs to pay exhorbitant rents to this same generation so they can live it up eating lobsters and smoking cigars.

    Not a hope of owning a house. Not a hope of raising your kids with a quality of life. It's mostly been the river for these people, while you have plumbers and tradesmen who thought they were worth a grand a week, and yearn for it again.

    But no lads. You weren't worth it. You're not worth it. It's lala land.

    Baby Boomers need their wagon fixed if you ask me, but if not, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Borrow away, let's enjoy ourselves and pretend our socioeconomic place in society and own personal wealth is all of our doing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,580 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    it'd probably be in your favour.

    if you drive a 1.9 diesel on the old system, your tax is 710 a year, right?

    you don't have to pay that €710 any more so you can spend it on diesel, diesel is currently 1.05 and lets say they put 5c on (the figure that's usually thrown around in these threads), that's €1.10 per liter.

    that means you could buy 645 liters of diesel with your motor tax saving, now if your diesel car will do 50 mpg, that's over 7100 miles of diesel. tidy bit of a saving in fairness.
    You're just making up numbers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    I think it's a reasonable example.

    Guy commutes 15 hours a week, diesel is the most likely fuel.
    Guy complains about the price of running a car, probably drives an older car
    The majority of older diesels in Ireland are 1.9 - 2.0
    The figure to ad to the fuel price to compensate for motor tax that is often quoted on here is around 5c per litre

    The price of diesel is reasonably accurate as is my maths.

    It may be a notional scenario but it is as factually correct as can be. If you have a more logical or realistic comparison, go ahead and give us a look.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 302 ✭✭Brasso


    bmwguy wrote: »
    The 4 billion motor tax figure given here sounds very high to me. There are approx 4 million people in the republic, obviously northern Ireland doesn't count in this instance.

    4 billion would mean every man, woman and child paid an average of 1000 Euro on road tax.
    A 2.5 car costs 1080 to tax annually.
    Under 17s don't drive and a 2.5 car is very rare in Ireland.
    Not every adult drives either, I would say 50% do (interested in this figure actually just out of interest)
    I would say it's a billion at most but even at that it's 250 by every resident of the republic, 500 for every driver.

    Still sounds high now that I think of it

    Yeah seems too high alright, is that including VRT or something maybe?

    I looked at the stats for licences, in 2012 2.414 million had full licences, I could only find 2012 population data that had ages 15-19 grouped as one, but I estimated that about 3.452 million people were over 17 in 2012. So that gives about 69.9% of adults holding a full licence, I could have misinterpreted some of the statistics but that sounds about right as Ireland is quite a car dependant country.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    kleefarr wrote: »
    The Government aren't interested in money. If they were they would legalise and regulate marijuana/cannabis and make a small fortune.

    And apart from that, putting the road tax onto the price of petrol is the fairest way. That way you pay for what you use. My old lady who uses the car once a week will not have to pay the same as someone who uses it it 4 times a day.

    But she doesn't. The guy using it 4 times a day has big fuel bills. So there's a certain level of tax on the car itself and the rest is taken on fuel. So we already have that system. it's a daft idea and will never happen. Unless you fancy paying €2.50 for your fuel at some point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    All of us lazy folk should have made the following a priority a good while before election year... Put motor tax on petrol. I'm really sick of paying the same as some guzzler when I rarely use the car at this time. We should have made this an election issue as well, yes me included.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    But she doesn't. The guy using it 4 times a day has big fuel bills. So there's a certain level of tax on the car itself and the rest is taken on fuel. So we already have that system. it's a daft idea and will never happen. Unless you fancy paying €2.50 for your fuel at some point.

    But by that logic then car tax should be a flat rate fee and not based on cc's or emissions. You pay for owning a car, then your car "useage tax" is on fuel.

    Like the T.V. license, everybody pays it whether you watch RTE ten times a day or not at all. And you don't see people with 51" tv's paying more than people with 32". Not do you see people with A+ rated LED models paying less than.old folks with CRT models.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭bmwguy


    Brasso wrote: »
    Yeah seems too high alright, is that including VRT or something maybe?

    I looked at the stats for licences, in 2012 2.414 million had full licences, I could only find 2012 population data that had ages 15-19 grouped as one, but I estimated that about 3.452 million people were over 17 in 2012. So that gives about 69.9% of adults holding a full licence, I could have misinterpreted some of the statistics but that sounds about right as Ireland is quite a car dependant country.

    well the figure quoted was for motor tax only, but I don't know where it came from. There are commercial vehicles that pay tax too I suppose. But no way is it approaching 4 million unless I am missing something. As you said there may be a figure lumped in there for something else, vrt or VAT on car sales. But this thread is about motor tax. So let's work off a figure of somewhere between 500 million and 1 billion which I think is more accurate.

    And the 70% of adults that hold licences, not all of them drive. You have city dwellers a lot of whom would not need or have a car and of course of those that do drive, they would not own their own car. Husbands/wives sharing a car, teenagers and young adults driving parents cars and then of course the many that cannot afford a car or just choose not to. I can't see the figure even being close to a billion to be honest.

    The tax revenues on fuel would likely be far higher and I did read somewhere (but I am not sure of the validity of this claim) that over half of the motor tax collected is expended in the administration and enforcement of motor tax.

    Maybe it is a possibility they will scrap it. But we would need the real figures to start a proper discussion on how they would replace the tax revenue, and replace it they will!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Motor-Tax should be put on to fuel and I believe it is the fairest way for drivers imo.


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