Ireland vs Wales, Six Nations 2016, Sunday 7th Feb, 2016. KO 3PMGMT

The Black Stags

The Black Stags wrote: »

I haven't watched much of Munster this season, what is Stander like on the deck - does he get many turnovers? Or is he mainly just a big hitter/ball carrier?



*Quoted Buer but anyone can answer.

He's been Munsters best player by a margin but has been playing with a weak second row and very poor backrow so he's been having to do a bit of everything.

Carrying certainly seems to be his strength and whilst he seems to pull his weight on the deck he struggled there against SOB and Heaslip in the Leinster game. I don't think he will have any difficulty fitting into the Ireland team tomorrow.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip was our first choice back row by the end of the tournament.

Equally, I think it could be Ruddock, O'Brien and Heaslip so will just have to wait and see how they go.

Exciting to see him in green though. May not be Irish but he has been Munster's most committed player so can't fault him.

Moflojo

The Black Stags wrote: »

I haven't watched much of Munster this season, what is Stander like on the deck - does he get many turnovers? Or is he mainly just a big hitter/ball carrier?



*Quoted Buer but anyone can answer.

He's consistently one of Munster's top poachers, but it's his tackle count and metres carried that are always exceptionally high and garner more attention.

Hopefully Stander can do a good job at test level - Josh Strauss had been single-handedly destroying teams in the Pro12 for years but his impact at test level for Scotland has been fairly poor so far, I never understood why, perhaps he was carrying a knock or something.

stephen_n

I don't get the fears about TOD, though he is no SOB (who is), he has acquitted himself very well so far at international level. He is a natural openside which is exactly what we need on Sunday, I really hope he steps up to the plate and has a stormer.

CatFromHue

3 project players in the starting 15.

Is that the most so far?

CatFromHue

3 project players in the starting 15.

Is that the most so far?

aimee1

stephen_n wrote: »

I don't get the fears about TOD, though he is no SOB (who is), he has acquitted himself very well so far at international level. He is a natural openside which is exactly what we need on Sunday, I really hope he steps up to the plate and has a stormer.

i dont understand it either. He has proven himself so far to be more the capable.

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

I don't get the fears about TOD, though he is no SOB (who is), he has acquitted himself very well so far at international level. He is a natural openside which is exactly what we need on Sunday, I really hope he steps up to the plate and has a stormer.

He's not really a natural openside in the common sense. I think we'd much prefer to have a ground focused guy like O'Mahony. But I'm not worried about TOD, he's going to make sure their back row are having to look both ways, he's fantastic for coming up with big carries at big moments.

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's not really a natural openside in the common sense. I think we'd much prefer to have a ground focused guy like O'Mahony. But I'm not worried about TOD, he's going to make sure their back row are having to look both ways, he's fantastic for coming up with big carries at big moments.

Well I suppose the roll of an openside has morphed somewhat in the modern era, he may not Jackal like POM but his breakdown work is solid. Best will probably be the Jackal on Sunday as I'm not sure about Stander but Heaslip isn't really going to be providing that service I'd imagine.

Fireball07

TOD is perhaps a bit lightweight, but he is an absolute workhorse, and will make huge amounts of tackles. Stander will help on the ground, and the front 5 looks pretty strong.


I would have liked to see McCloskey tbh. The thing I'm most worried about is the form of our half-backs. Probably our two best players (bar SOB) generally, neither have been close to their best this season.


I do think we can win but you'd imagine it will be close again.

English Lurker

I've been glancing at the upcoming team selections for this one from through my fingers but on reflection, things don't look too bad.

The weakest points of this Ireland team for me are the set-piece, which injury has wrecked, and the ability to play open flowing rugby, which has (yet) imo to be a consistent strength of a Schmidt Ireland team. The strong points are the kick-chase (form permitting) and defence.

Look at Wales.

Their ability to attack the set-piece has been greatly reduced by Adam Jones' retirement and while Samson Lee is a serious prospect who will one day hurt people with some break out performances, I'm not sure that day will be Sunday. Their line-out both ways is not great shakes. It's very possible Ireland will sustain no serious damage here.

Not being great at sexy rugby is annoying, but Ireland have won that way before and it's only really a disadvantage if Wales stick up a big score. That seems unlikely to me, the Welsh attack's a little laboured (on account of everyone knowing how it's done) and a strong Irish defence that should do well as long as Wales don't get the ball wide quick and often.

So I'm not sure Ireland's weaknesses will be exploited and looking at things the other way, that's a pretty raw back three for Wales. If the Irish half-backs and back three hit their potential, they could cause a seriously uncomfortable day there. I've already covered the defence issue. If it's a tight affair, with neither side scoring freely, territorial advantage will be key.

It's possible Wales will play a more open game or spring a surprise (the selection of Tipuric suggests they might try, and Anscombe offers a second playmaker if wanted) and that could change the complexion of things radically - if they pull it off. But I'm not sure I'd put money on it.

And I'm not sure I'd want to put money on who wins this one either. That Ireland team could do it.

irishbucsfan

I would say our set piece is a strength of ours. As long as Rory Best is on form with his throwing.

I have no concrete about our 2nd row in the piece whatsoever. The main question is possibly Nathan White but I've never been concerned about his scrummaging. McCarthy is one of the most powerful locks in the country, behind only Henderson I'd say.

I'm not worried by the Welsh set piece. I'm much more worried about what their forwards will do in open play, which is where our tight 5 struggle (except McGrath/Best).

jm08

The Black Stags wrote: »

I haven't watched much of Munster this season, what is Stander like on the deck - does he get many turnovers? Or is he mainly just a big hitter/ball carrier?



*Quoted Buer but anyone can answer.

OptaJonny
OptaJonny – Verified account ‏@OptaJonny

71 - No player has made more carries (71) or won more turnovers (9) than @Munsterrugby's @CJStander in the @ChampionsCup 2015/16. Selection.

LorMal

stephen_n wrote: »

I don't get the fears about TOD, though he is no SOB (who is), he has acquitted himself very well so far at international level. He is a natural openside which is exactly what we need on Sunday, I really hope he steps up to the plate and has a stormer.

TOD is no SOB, no POC, POM or BOD.

pickarooney

We need to get over our dependence on O's.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

We need to get over our dependence on O's.

I agree with Pickarney

LorMal

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with Pickarney

Me 2

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would say our set piece is a strength of ours. As long as Rory Best is on form with his throwing.

I have no concrete about our 2nd row in the piece whatsoever. The main question is possibly Nathan White but I've never been concerned about his scrummaging. McCarthy is one of the most powerful locks in the country, behind only Henderson I'd say.

I'm not worried by the Welsh set piece. I'm much more worried about what their forwards will do in open play, which is where our tight 5 struggle (except McGrath/Best).

Best's throwing is key. About 3 years ago he had a bit of a 'mare with his throwing (which ultimately cost him with the Lions), however I felt at the time it was a system issue which then in turn plagued on his confidence. My concern is that that difficult period ran in tandem with POC being injured and not in the side to run the lineout, at the same time his throwing for Ulster, with Muller in the team, was generally fine. With POC gone, plus the added burden of the captaincy how will his throwing go? Of course the one plus between now and 2013 is that the beanpole that is Devin Toner is in the side, and whatever else he is an excellent lineout operator so hopefully that will stand to him. However I'm pretty sure AWJ will try to get after the Irish lineout tomorrow, if Wales succeed we are in serious trouble. No pressure Rory...!

Pink Fairy

LorMal wrote: »

TOD is no SOB, no POC, POM or BOD.

Or GBH or FML or LOL

The Rape of Lucretia

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Or GBH or FML or LOL

The papers are wall to wall FGM this morning.

andymx11

Jesus very quite around these parts considering 19 hours to kick off!!

Calm before the storm- moderators getting a night off. On that note, can't believe Jackson isn't on the bench tomorrow.....

andymx11

andymx11 wrote: »

Jesus very quite around these parts considering 19 hours to kick off!!

Calm before the storm- moderators getting a night off. On that note, can't believe Jackson isn't on the bench tomorrow.....

Everyone is getting an extra prayer session in before bed!

phog

andymx11 wrote: »

Jesus very quite around these parts considering 19 hours to kick off!!

Calm before the storm- moderators getting a night off. On that note, can't believe Jackson isn't on the bench tomorrow.....

Tbh, I can see why some might not bother posting, the teams are selected and but if you're anyway critical of the Irish team selection you'll be accused of bias or get the #JoeKnowsBest line thrown out.

Billysays no

bilston wrote: »

Yeah you can catch them on BBC2 about 7pm tonight

Think that's bad you dont get to see muldowney, o'halloran or Healy on TV at all.

CMOTDibbler

phog wrote: »

Tbh, I can see why some might not bother posting, the teams are selected and but if you're anyway critical of the Irish team selection you'll be accused of bias or get the #JoeKnowsBest line thrown out.

Yep. Or some passive aggressive nonsense. You just can't win.

The Rape of Lucretia

phog wrote: »

#JoeKnowsBest line thrown out.

I dont think anyone throws out the Joe knows best line - we all agree that its fact - He does know best.
He is a superior rugby mind leading us to rugby win nirvana. We are just trying to make sense of our own mistakes and why our rugby judgment sometimes comes up with different selections or tactics than Joe does. But we know we are the ones in the wrong, not Him.
Hence the hot debates hereabouts betimes - none of us is truly playing at His level.

Billysays no

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yep. Or some passive aggressive nonsense. You just can't win.

Its such a strange thing. Most folks would agree that its an absolutely shocking Irish team. Over the years we have lost players but the only players in the pack I consider quality are Rory best, devin toner and cj stander.

And then you get the insistence on henshaw and Payne to the extent that zebo is put at full back and he is shocking

Yes our pack is very weak. Yes our fullback is very weak. Yes conor is a great passer but he just passes possession away with his boxkicks.

At some point Joe has to stop this dependency on the usual. There is better. How many times does it need to be proven.

aimee1

Billysays no wrote: »

Its such a strange thing. Most folks would agree that its an absolutely shocking Irish team. Over the years we have lost players but the only players in the pack I consider quality are Rory best, devin toner and cj stander.

And then you get the insistence on henshaw and Payne to the extent that zebo is put at full back and he is shocking

Yes our pack is very weak. Yes our fullback is very weak. Yes conor is a great passer but he just passes possession away with his boxkicks.

At some point Joe has to stop this dependency on the usual. There is better. How many times does it need to be proven.

1. McGrath is quality, as is Heaslip. They have both been part of the last two 6n which Ireland won. Stander is totally unproven at international level, so rating him as one of only 3 quality players and ahead of two guys who were regulars in back to back titles is utter nonsense.

2. JS spoke on friday about the logic behind this, that he did look at other options such as McCloskey/Marshall or McCloskey/Payne with Henshaw at 15 [its quoted in one of the papers today] but he felt the need for some continuity/experience. He also spoke about not wanting to lose a few days work in prep by making such a big change to the team when RK was ruled out.

3. So far in his reign he has proven to be getting it right a lot more then wrong.

Billysays no

aimee1 wrote: »

1. McGrath is quality, as is Heaslip. They have both been part of the last two 6n which Ireland won. Stander is totally unproven at international level, so rating him as one of only 3 quality players and ahead of two guys who were regulars in back to back titles is utter nonsense.

2. JS spoke on friday about the logic behind this, that he did look at other options such as McCloskey/Marshall or McCloskey/Payne with Henshaw at 15 [its quoted in one of the papers today] but he felt the need for some continuity/experience. He also spoke about not wanting to lose a few days work in prep by making such a big change to the team when RK was ruled out.

3. So far in his reign he has proven to be getting it right a lot more then wrong.

Buckley is so better than McGrath. So that's my plus for Connacht. Then Nathan would never my choice 3 on an international squad. Then McCarthy is just ordinary these days. Then tod is just back. So no, our pack will be nailed. And then we have a shocking back line. I have no problem being wrong but I hope I'm right. Then we don't have to watch this again, please god

aimee1

Billysays no wrote: »

Buckley is so better than McGrath. So that's my plus for Connacht. Then Nathan would never my choice 3 on an international squad. Then McCarthy is just ordinary these days. Then tod is just back. So no, our pack will be nailed. And then we have a shocking back line. I have no problem being wrong but I hope I'm right. Then we don't have to watch this again, please god

This would be McGrath with two 6n winners medals? He is far better than Buckley. White is in because Ross and Moore are injured. Furlong is on the bench. That was the order at RWC.

McCarthy has had a good season for leinster. POC is gone, Henderson is injured. Not exactly spoiled for choice at second row. This team isnt picked by choice largely. It is picked by default. The backline is far from shocking, all bar Earls have a 6n winners medal under JS. So they know what it takes to be winners.

Moore, Healy, Ross, Henderson, SOB, Henry, POM, Bowe, Fitz, RK are all out injured this weekend and at least half of them wont play at all in the 6n.

irishbucsfan

I really like Buckley but obviously Feek/Easterby/Schmidt see him as being quite far down the pecking order.

I've been bitten before on Connacht props after seeing how Jamie Hagan turned out, so I'll remain bearish on him until we see him given a shot.