Super XVIII 2016

JPNelsforearm

pickarooney wrote: »

Why were SA so hell bent on getting a sixth team when the existing teams are poor, their best players are all going abroad and they have no money to fund them?

SA were not hellbent on it, a section within the SARU were, its a lot of money that one can skim off on a super rugby/CC franchise if you run it as a bare bones operation and have the SARU loaning you players to make up the squad. Its about lining the pockets of certain administrators and giving people work within SARU for political reasons..

Yeah_Right

It takes a lot for this kiwi to feel pity for SA rugby but reading that certainly does it. I've spoken about this a few times with Saffa mates and I really do feel sorry for them. They are genuine rugby fans and they love the game yet it is being destroyed in their homeland. Humiliating them on the field is fine and they'll get no sympathy from me then but seeing the sport destroyed by corruption and stupidity is sad.

swiwi_

pickarooney wrote: »

Why were SA so hell bent on getting a sixth team when the existing teams are poor, their best players are all going abroad and they have no money to fund them?

The Force, Kings, Sunwolves are all too weak for this competition.

Not the expert like JPNels, but my understanding they wanted the Kings because of the large black population in that region. They did promotion-relegation, which resulted in the Lions missing a year of Super Rugby (Johannesburg's team), which would be like Leinster missing out on the Pro 12 after losing relegation to Connacht.

So they decided they couldn't have that happen again, but they also wanted that team from the Kings.

So 6 teams, when they probably have the depth for 4 teams.

They are being raped and pillaged because of the weak rand, basically every weak a decent SA player signs for overseas.

I would think the future of SA rugby is pretty bleak - wouldn't eventually surprise me to see SANZAR dump SA for Asia or America.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

A lot of those players are essentially forced overseas due to "transformation directives", eg fifty percent of all academies must be "non white", same with playing squads. The teams have been massaging the figures to get around this for years, but its being enforced and the toll is visible in the numbers coming through declining. A lot of players are essentially told, "you have no future here", and English and French clubs at all levels hoover them up.

It's a difficult situation to be in. You can see why, in theory, the quotas thing is there, but in practice you can't implement something like that at any sort of high level of play. It has to start from the lowest level possible and even then it's not quotas you need it's investment and promotion in the non white areas. Once you get to clubs and academy levels teams should be picked on merit. It seems though that in some cases you still can't trust that to happen. It all sounds very messy.

JPNelsforearm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It's a difficult situation to be in. You can see why, in theory, the quotas thing is there, but in practice you can't implement something like that at any sort of high level of play. It has to start from the lowest level possible and even then it's not quotas you need it's investment and promotion in the non white areas. Once you get to clubs and academy levels teams should be picked on merit. It seems though that in some cases you still can't trust that to happen. It all sounds very messy.

Exactly, they went about it the wrong way, as opposed to saying "we have 10 white players coming through in X district, we now want five of them to be black", they should have been looking to have fifteen or twenty players coming through, those extra numbers coming from the black population. Investment is the key, its easy to blame the ANC etc, but SARU is just as corrupt, they made a complete mess of this, trying to play politics as opposed to focusing on the rugby.

At the moment SARU's transformation plan/quota's and planned 50% black starting lineup by 2019 is illegal under the IRB laws/code, Olympic charter. All it will take is one court case and the deck of cards collapses.

JPNelsforearm

Here's now Leicester Tigers hooker, on EP, basically he came back from France to play on less money, and ended up unpaid and sacked for a cheaper player already under contract, when SARU came in and took over the Kings such was the dire state of their finances.

The Kings shouldnt be playing Super rugby, the quality isnt there, they will be hammered week in week out.

"I refer to the non-payment of monies due to me for the months of October and November of this year and the present impasse between the executive of eastern province rugby and the players.

Unfortunately I am no longer in a position to accept non-payment of monies due to me and the present climate of uncertainty.

These monies are the life blood of my existence.

Approximately 19 months ago I relocated from France to return to my country and the province and city i grew up in.

I did so with my fiancé in tow and with the intention of representing my province at super rugby and currie cup level.

I was proud and excited by my return to Nelson Mandela bay and looked forward to committing to eastern province rugby.

However the events of this year have left me disillusioned.

Notwithstanding frequent non-payment and or late payment, I have remained committed, loyal and hopeful that the executive would resolve sponsorship issues and thereby ensure regular payment of monies due to the players and I. Despite a petition and a plea from the players, it is now clear to me that the executive cannot resolve the issues. Liquidation is held over my head and that in a sea of uncertainty.

The non-payment of monies due to me for October and November have left me financially embarrassed.

I am no longer in a position to rely upon my friends and my family.

The shroud of mystery that surrounds the sponsorship issue, the broken promises and continued financial issues as well as the constant reference to liquidation has rendered my position untenable.

Unfortunately the executive is in material breach of my contract and in the circumstances I have no choice but to cancel my contract and exercise my legal remedies.

I reserve all my rights including the right to amplify this letter and the reasons for my decision.

This matter is now in the hands of my legal representatives.

This has not been an easy decision as I had committed to a future in the eastern cape. I stood for something I believe in, and I can hold my head up high. I’m not sure what my future looks like but I know who holds my future. I wish the players, and the region well.

Michael van Vuuren

This is also worth a read

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/kings-have-thrown-us-to-the-dogs-20160229

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I don't know how financially viable it would be but is there anything to be said for SA having something similar to the Maori All Blacks team? Obviously if players are good enough they make it onto the Springboks side but having a black player only representative side would allow black players to have a visual presence which could in turn be used to target younger kids in areas where rugby isn't played. Players who are good but not quite good enough for the Boks could be sent to play for this team and develop their skills a bit more. I don't know who they'd play, other African teams maybe or Tier 3 sides, depending on how good they are.

I don't know, I'm just spit balling.

JPNelsforearm

There is a ban on the Bokke playing the Maori, on the grounds that they are a racist side... So a "townships XV", "Bantu XV" or whatever would undoubtedly be shot down on "racist" grounds, even though every team in SA is picked on racist grounds, but sssh... the Limpopo Blue Bulls in the Vodacom cup would be one such side, or rather they were, they got a load of hidings, so I dont know their current set up, but they weren't designated as a "black" side.

Look at it this way, Heyenke Meyer was the hottest coach in the country after Jake White was "let go", his tactics, everything, were en vogue. SARU decide they need to make a grand gesture and they appoint PDiv, the players basically coach themselves the next four years..They then appoint Meyer, after the game has moved on, he does alright in the face of massive political pressure. He's let go(after the last WC) after intimating he would stay on for four more years, and they have yet to find anyone who wants the job due to the political interference they will face, we are now into February/March, SARU is not a well run organisation.

Here is what the Chairman, Oregan Hoskins said (back in Nov/Dec I think) as regards their search for the next coach of the national side.
"Transformation is a dynamic thing first of all, but I personally believe that whoever wants to apply for the job needs to know that transformation is going to be at the top of his agenda or else he should not apply,"
So in essence, normal performance criteria does not apply, to what should be the pinnacle of rugby in your country.. the entire thing is upside down.

pickarooney

The fact that they have these different categories of 'black' now is kind of shocking. Habana, Petersen, Kirchner, Hendricks etc.would all have to face the pencil test under the proposed quota system. It's all a bit Animal Farm.

pickarooney

What's with the official super rugby site using copyrighted YouTube clips which then all get pulled?

calico77

Naholo refractured his leg. Seems the fiji witch doctor wasnt quite so successful

Huntergonzo

I haven't watched Super Rugby in about 6 or 7 years, maybe more but I decided to start watching it again (well the highlights really) and just have a few questions.

1. What's happened to the attendances? I remember them being a lot better a decade ago, some of the stadiums particularly in South Africa looked very bare.

2. Is the rugby as good as ever to watch? Just going by the highlights it still looks a hell of a lot more entertaining than the dull, hard yards shíte we're often subjected to here in the northern hemisphere.

3. Also what a result for the Jaguares, bout bloody time Argentina had a team in Super Rugby, have they any chance of a good season overall?

sydthebeat

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I haven't watched Super Rugby in about 6 or 7 years, maybe more but I decided to start watching it again (well the highlights really) and just have a few questions.

1. What's happened to the attendances? I remember them being a lot better a decade ago, some of the stadiums particularly in South Africa looked very bare.

2. Is the rugby as good as ever to watch? Just going by the highlights it still looks a hell of a lot more entertaining than the dull, hard yards shíte we're often subjected to here in the northern hemisphere.

3. Also what a result for the Jaguares, bout bloody time Argentina had a team in Super Rugby, have they any chance of a good season overall?

1. seems to be a serious issue in the times ive been watching super ruby (probably last 4-5 years). Possibly due to the franchises having a bit of a disconnect from their provincial areas for a myriad of reasons. Some clubs seem to be doing all they can to drum up attendences... for example the current super rugby champions Highlanders are playing the loosing finalists Hurricanes on saturday in Dunedin and a parent AND child can attend for NZD 38 (about €23) with another kid at NZD 6 (3.60)... amazing value!!

2. The NZ league will always throw up some mouth watering games. The first 3 games of the season this year all had over 60 points. Most saffer clubs have moved away from the kicking game they over employed for years.

3. Yes they have a good chance, depending on how the international windows affect they. They really should be getting a quarter final place at least and are 8/1 to win it out. the japenese have a super rugby team as well, but will be whipping boys for most but the worst SA teams unfortnately

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Los Jaguares are not far off being the Argentinian national side in a different colour kit. It would be surprising if they didn't do well.

JPNelsforearm

I'd say the travel will hurt the Argentinians the most. It'll tell in the later stages.

sydthebeat

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

I'd say the travel will hurt the Argentinians the most. It'll tell in the later stages.

the games seems to be happening in blocks so the jaguares will be base din SA during those blocks. The extra travelling is simply distance rather than frequency.

LuckyGent88

Won't be able to catch the game between the brumbies and Waratahs later.
This should be a belter. Both contenders for the championship and their is a little animosity between the two clubs the lost few years.
Pocock v Hooper as well.

sydthebeat

Blues are looking good again this morning

sydthebeat

Crusaders scrum absolutely mincing the blues, leading to Pen try. I think crusaders have won pens from the last 5 scrum in a row

sydthebeat

A 6th scrum penalty in a row allows crusaders to go 13-3 up

pickarooney

Ah here. Teams usi g the scrum to win penalties is antithetic to Super Rugby which is all about getting it out fast and going wide.

For shame.

sydthebeat

What a horrible pen by mouga, almost turned into a cross field for nandolo

sydthebeat

16-6 ... 16 left

sydthebeat

Jesus, nandolo leaves two blues on their arse and makes they play for crusaders try in the corner

sydthebeat

https://assets.stuff.co.nz/video/production/1457081186030-Crusaders%20vs%20Blues.mp4

nondolos run on 0:30 here

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

This time of year I really regret getting rid of Sky Sports

swiwi_

One of my mates wanted to have a read of the latest edition of NZ rugby featuring a centrefold feature on the Crusaders scrum. Sheepishly had to tell him the pages were stuck together.

Also, very happy with the new FH Mo'unga. Looks a very promising 10.

For the Blues, Umaga got his team selection horribly wrong.

Crusaders bye then Dagg and Ireland's favourite son Crotty back in action.

Happy days.

sydthebeat

Lions beat the chiefs.... Wtf?

pickarooney

And they travel to Dunedin next week. Getting worried? :P

swiwi_

Well done Syd. Braindead from Woodward at the end there.

Would have been an injustice to lose, Fekitoa 100% scored the denied try.