BMW 330e

mickdw

Your figures with a gfv of 22000 seems dodgy to me. Is this from bmw or a guess? I'd be thinking it might be nearer 18k.
In my case, I'd be thinking of a more basic m sport with about 13k to 14k deposit leaving a payment of about 450 per month with the lower gfv.
If it halved my petrol bill, it would be a very affordable car.

carsfan

There's a few clips put up on U tube by a dutch guy who has one(Rick Van Buuren) including 0-100km sprint and driving in electric mode.
Looks good to be honest.

Voodoomelon

mickdw wrote: »

Your figures with a gfv of 22000 seems dodgy to me. Is this from bmw or a guess? I'd be thinking it might be nearer 18k.
In my case, I'd be thinking of a more basic m sport with about 13k to 14k deposit leaving a payment of about 450 per month with the lower gfv.
If it halved my petrol bill, it would be a very affordable car.

Yes it's something of a guess, I based the repayments on a 520d touring which would have the same list price and hopefully the same 3.9% rate. So i'd imagine the GFV of a 330e would be a touch lower alright.

carsfan

Got this from the dealer today.

Voodoomelon

Thanks for that. Shame there's still no options pricing yet, not much more I can ask at the dealers on Wednesday so.

Zurbaran

Not really any new info bar the price for the SE trim.

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/bmw-3series-phev-148mpg-to-cost-41030-2series-active-tourer-from-42790-34398621.html

Voodoomelon

Went into Frank Keane's today for an aircon recharge and sat down with a rep for half an hour regarding the 330e very helpful.

How many inquiries have they had over the 330e? Zero.

Anyways, here is a very well specced 330e so as to get a look at the options prices.



The VRT reduces the options by a decent amount.

For example, here are some comparisons to a 320i M-Sport:

M Sport Plus package:
330e: €2759 - 320i: €2944

Tanzanite Blue:
330e: €1925 - 320i: €2029

Media package - Professional Plus:
330e: €2087 - 320i: €2201

Interior comfort package:
330e: €869 - 320i: €1104

Electric Glass Sunroof:
330e: €1235 - 320i: €1302

Comfort Access:
330e: €681 - 320i: €720

Elec Fr Seats + Driver Memory:
330e: €1304 - 320i: €1375

No details on PCP yet or GFV as they don't have figures yet, but he has sent off to request for me. 3.9% is to the end of the first quarter (March), they never know what the rate is beyond a quarter at a time.

Delivery is about 2 months, stick an Individual option in there like the paint and it can bump it to 3 months.

Price excludes the €7500 grant. You stick the deposit down, the purchase order goes off for grant approval, comes back to BMW then and they give the green light to build. You never pay the €7500 at any stage.

carsfan

Very interesting voodoo melon
Sounds like you might genuinely be interested in one. Did he give any info on residual prediction? That is, he didn't try and warn you off and steer you to diesel?

Voodoomelon

I have to say it does interest me a lot. They had a 320 Sport in the showroom and I was surprised how much room there was, along with the quality. The 3 has really grown up in the last 10 years. That said, nearly all the models in there bar the 7 seemed to have cheap leather, its no where near as nice as the leather I have right now.

He reckons it will have decent value at the end of the 3 years, but sure they're probably the last ones to be listening to. That said, a well specced 330e might be few and far between in 3 years time so , it might do well. It's hard to know.

He was curious by my interest in it as no one had asked, said I seemed to know more about it than he did. Didn't try and steer me one way or the other, I think he saw straight away I had no interest in a diesel.

carsfan

I'm interested too but want an extended drive maybe over a couple of days to see what it's really like on juice vs performance
Also would pcp to protect in case very poor residual but doubt this would be the case.

Voodoomelon

There's gonna be a problem with demo cars. He said at the beginning that it would be unlikely they'd be getting one at all. But then contradicted himself (or maybe i misunderstood) by saying there will probably be one available in late March.

I'd be the same, if it couldn't be driven 90% of the time on electric alone, for whatever technical reason or couldn't achieve realistic improvements over a regular fuel car, I wouldn't be interested.

mickdw

Yep I'd be interested too but they you look at what's coming a few months later. New model 5 series with similar system and mercedes c350e which seems to have a near identical setup.
That mercedes should be stunning.

mickdw

Voodoomelon wrote: »

There's gonna be a problem with demo cars. He said at the beginning that it would be unlikely they'd be getting one at all. But then contradicted himself (or maybe i misunderstood) by saying there will probably be one available in late March.

I'd be the same, if it couldn't be driven 90% of the time on electric alone, for whatever technical reason or couldn't achieve realistic improvements over a regular fuel car, I wouldn't be interested.

Yep, if as you say it can be driven without activating the petrol engine, it will be a great option for town dwellers.
We know it will do 20 odd miles on full electric mode but can it allow the petrol engine to remain stone cold or will the engine need to run for 10 mins when the car is cold just to have all systems ready to roll.
I know the first model gs 450h would always switch on engine when cold even though it was capable of full electric driving. I found with that car on an extended test drive that the short journeys I was doing morning and evening resulted in engine being on all the time.
If the bmw was similar, it would make it a non runner for alot of potential customers.

carsfan

There's bound to be a demo some where.
BMW Ireland will make sure to have some brought in. Journalists will need press cars. The dealer I contacted said they hope to have a demo in March .
Will be a niche car alright.
If its all urban short hops you do is I would say electric will work for you.
Re the new 5 series, it will be like the new 7 reduced to 80 per cent and I doubt the hybrid will be on sale at launch so probably a 2018 car. My local merc dealer is a pig and after owning a c class that was a piece of crap I swore never again. Although the current c is nice looking but spec wise is even meaner than the 3 series/ A4 competition.

fm

Tested a gte last week, nice drive, it always starts in electric mode provided it's charged. You can keep it in e mode or put it in hybrid mode which switches between petrol and electric automatically , also has battery hold, battery charge (charging by engine) and gte mode which is both working together. Very smooth switching from electric to petrol, potentially could be very economical but really depends a lot on driving style, flat roads, weather and distance per journey. 50km on electric apparently but have read on line anything for 12 to 30k realistically per charge. When I first enquired about it salesman knew very very little about them and said no one else had enquired about it

Voodoomelon

mickdw wrote: »

Yep, if as you say it can be driven without activating the petrol engine, it will be a great option for town dwellers.
We know it will do 20 odd miles on full electric mode but can it allow the petrol engine to remain stone cold or will the engine need to run for 10 mins when the car is cold just to have all systems ready to roll.
I know the first model gs 450h would always switch on engine when cold even though it was capable of full electric driving. I found with that car on an extended test drive that the short journeys I was doing morning and evening resulted in engine being on all the time.
If the bmw was similar, it would make it a non runner for alot of potential customers.

According to the bulletin linked to on the first page, the car always starts up with the engine running and you have to switch it to E mode yourself. I could live with that, but only if it allowed me to do it straight away.

I have a funny feeling that the electric aspect of this car is purposely just to get the mpg of the petrol engine down, not necessarily to be run exclusively in electric mode all week long. I'll be happily proven wrong.

mickdw

carsfan wrote: »

There's bound to be a demo some where.
BMW Ireland will make sure to have some brought in. Journalists will need press cars. The dealer I contacted said they hope to have a demo in March .
Will be a niche car alright.
If its all urban short hops you do is I would say electric will work for you.
Re the new 5 series, it will be like the new 7 reduced to 80 per cent and I doubt the hybrid will be on sale at launch so probably a 2018 car. My local merc dealer is a pig and after owning a c class that was a piece of crap I swore never again. Although the current c is nice looking but spec wise is even meaner than the 3 series/ A4 competition.

I think all mercedes dealers are pigs to be fair. If you dont match the profile of a typical merc buyer, they seem to snigger. That has been my experience anyway.
On the next 5 series, I'm sure I read that alot of the different engine options are coming on stream very quickly.
I see these phev as a major push away from diesel certainly for customers that should never have bought a diesel and as such, I wouldn't be surprised to see an e version at launch specially as it's not available in current 5 series.
I believe there is a 530e and a 540e coming.
I don't see these tanking in terms of residual value. If anything, I think they may offer stunning residuals. Certainly if the 7.5k grant was dropped in a few years, used values could be very strong.

carsfan

Just looking again at the very generously specced car you built today Voodoo Melon and see "Dealer starter pack". Have to say 350 euro to get the car ready for a customer is a piss take in my opinion.
I presume you put all that kit on to get a handle on prices or would you go for all that?
re. the leather, it is Dakota leather they all come with that is plasticky but hard wearing. You can upgrade to nappa but again costs a packet.

Voodoomelon

Aye, I saw all that muck and it would be coming off. I'd probably pull the service pack too, although you might just about get the value out of it.

My spec wouldn't be far off that, but if you do a bit of tweaking, you can get better value. For example ditch the interior comfort package and spec heated seats separately, save yourself €450. Step back from the Professional Plus Media, which looses you heads-up display, but knocks €900 off.

I barely have the lumbar engaged in my 7er, so i'd prob knock that off, another €365. €1230 is a rip-off for the sunroof, but I like it a lot in the summer. Comfort access is far from necessary, but love it on the 7.

Would all come down to the price, much like anything.

Never thought about the grant being gone Mick, a real possibility if the government starts loosing out over the next 3 years.

mickdw

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Aye, I saw all that muck and it would be coming off. I'd probably pull the service pack too, although you might just about get the value out of it.

My spec wouldn't be far off that, but if you do a bit of tweaking, you can get better value. For example ditch the interior comfort package and spec heated seats separately, save yourself €450. Step back from the Professional Plus Media, which looses you heads-up display, but knocks €900 off.

I barely have the lumbar engaged in my 7er, so i'd prob knock that off, another €365. €1230 is a rip-off for the sunroof, but I like it a lot in the summer. Comfort access is far from necessary, but love it on the 7.

Would all come down to the price, much like anything.

Never thought about the grant being gone Mick, a real possibility if the government starts loosing out over the next 3 years.

Well they did an about turn on the hybrids before - going from 50 percent vrt to no reduction so very likely imo. Seai schemes from energy efficiency in homes side of things tend to almost be micro schemes in that they are short lived and very changeable. I could really see the 5k grant disappearing early days.

The current pricing is not going to be around for ever imo.
I live 6 miles from local town and my daily driving would typically be 2 journeys to that town. 24 miles or so. I would do 100 mile trip maybe once a week.
With a full charge every night, even if using the engine a fair bit, I should see stupidly cheap running on the days I don't do the longer trip.

Voodoomelon

You should benefit so, if the car allows it.
Can only play the waiting game now, will post the PCP numbers when I receive them.
Hopefully someone gets a demo in the next month, they've already been received on the continent.

Leonard Hofstadter

mickdw wrote: »

I believe there is a 530e and a 540e coming.
I don't see these tanking in terms of residual value. If anything, I think they may offer stunning residuals. Certainly if the 7.5k grant was dropped in a few years, used values could be very strong.

They'll definitely be doing more plug ins, it's the only way they'll get around the ever more demanding on paper CO2 targets, I think the average has to be 95 g/km across the entire car fleet by 2020, these plug ins do (theoretically 49 g/km) so it's a big step forward (if totally unrealistic for many motorists, though the current quoted figures of conventionally powered cars are impossible to achieve also). I'd fully expect there to be at least one plug in G30, more than likely two.

I'd say once plug ins become more heavily promoted and as long as the motor tax etc remains and more and more people find that diesel isn't suited to their driving these will get more popular on the second-hand market.

Fair play to you Voodoo for taking an interest in this car and going to the trouble of pricing it etc.

I totally agree with whoever said that the low pricing and grants etc won't last forever, that's certainly true, once enough people start buying them they will find an excuse to reduce or get rid of them. Just look at the UK, flat tax for everything from next year, great for dinosaurs like me who believe everything should be six cylinder plus but definitely not good for promoting lower CO2 vehicles. They'll probably do something similar in Ireland eventually, we do have this tendency to copy whatever the UK does only in such a way that everyone will end up having to pay more:mad:.

Voodoomelon

Well I think these plugins are the next evolutionary step. I was resistant to electric at first, but you know what? It's damn cool. And it's bloody cheap, at least at the moment. And in this case, the 330e is a little rocket.

I've had a straight six and a V8 for 8 years now, sometimes you just have to role with the times. I've probably bought the 330e in full in terms of what i've spent in maintenance and costs in the last 8 years, just feel it might be time for a change.

It's just not a country for big petrols, you get battered every way you turn; insurance is becoming a major issue now too. It's disheartening and hard to justify much longer.

Idbatterim

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/bmw-3series-phev-148mpg-to-cost-41030-2series-active-tourer-from-42790-34398621.html

The 3-series PHEV saloon, the 330e (2-litre petrol plus electric motor, pictured above) will cost from €41,030 on-the-road. By comparison a 320d SE costs €46,377 and a 330i Luxury is €51,976. BMW claims the 330e only needs 1.9litres to cover 100km (148mpg+).

And their front-wheel-drive 2-series Active Tourer people carrier, the 225xe (1.5-litre 3cyl petrol and electric motor) will cost from €42,790.

It is all-wheel-drive - an electric motor drives the rear axle. By comparison a 220d xDrive Sport auto costs €46,390 while a 225i xDrive is €50,120 OTR.

The PHEV prices include €2,500 VRT refund and €5,000 SEAI grant - as well as benefitting from lower VRT rates arising from reduced emissions.

so the 330e will be E5350 cheaper than the 320d! great it might finally be the start of getting filthy diesels off the road, the sooner the better as far as I am concerned...

carsfan

Had a look over on bimmerpost( very good site btw) and in forthcoming models they're saying 530e will have 30 hp more than 330e and be released as a late 2017 model so 2018 really.
It will be available with 2 and 4 wheel drive.

carsfan

Completecar.ie have posted that they will have a review up on the 330e at 11pm tonight.
Apparently there is an embargo stopping them putting it up sooner.

Voodoomelon

I asked that dude on YouTube who has his if its possible to use daily as a purely electric car. He says he doesn't know as he only does long journeys. Bit of a weird answer.

tvr

Subject to test drive. I would be interested in this as my daily driver.

If anyone is thinking of buying can they keep me in the loop as I think we could get a better deal if we had a group of us buying from one dealer etc..

DaveHumphreys

We've just published our first drive review now on completecar.ie if you'd like to learn a little more.

carsfan

Generally positive reviews on complete car and also autocar. Co.uk
I'll definitely be trying to get a drive though before I would commit.