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New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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    #4352
    ScrubsfanChris
    Registered Users Posts: 8,599 ✭✭✭ScrubsfanChris


    It's the hope that kills you

    The same Bills that couldn't score a single TD against the Jets


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    #4353
    paulie21
    Registered Users Posts: 17,871 ✭✭✭✭paulie21


    Gut wrenching loss looked like we were going to sneak a win. Cam played his part in getting us to that point was a good defensive play by them


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    #4354
    ScrubsfanChris
    Registered Users Posts: 8,599 ✭✭✭ScrubsfanChris


    Who ever called for that onside kick needs his own kick up the arse


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    #4355
    BKWDR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭BKWDR


    Why kick a field goal on 3rd at end of 1st half


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    #4356
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,878 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    el Fenomeno wrote:
    No he wasnt. He was drafted.

    Yeah, I keep forgettiing he was for some reason. I remember when he first came in at TC and nobody knew anything about him. So I always thought of him as an udfa.


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    #4357
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,892 ✭✭✭Christy42


    eagle eye wrote: »
    That should be Cam's last snap for a couple of weeks at least. .

    I mean, at least trade Gilmore before a declaration of tanking. Studham is not the answer.


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    #4358
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,878 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Christy42 wrote:
    I mean, at least trade Gilmore before a declaration of tanking. Studham is not the answer.
    I don't think Stidham is th answer either but I'd have said the same thing about Tom Brady when he was the backup many years ago.
    You don't know what you have until you give a player the starting role and time with the team as the starter.


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    #4359
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,892 ✭✭✭Christy42


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I don't think Stidham is th answer either but I'd have said the same thing about Tom Brady when he was the backup many years ago.
    You don't know what you have until you give a player the starting role and time with the team as the starter.

    I mean you can be pretty sure that I am not the answer without me seeing the field.

    Bill sees him in training. Brady went from a flawed but intriguing answer that they bent backwards to keep him on the roster year 1 with 4 QBs who quickly jumped up to 2nd without really seeing the field. He was showing signs of learning pretty quickly already. Not that I would have called it but there was something there to show he could do it.

    Studham was beat out by Hoyer in training and this isn't a team to drop a young qb into for the hope.

    Outside of the injured eagles you likely have the worst set of receivers in the league. At least the Jets have Crowder. Cam can make it work because he is a weapon. Brady struggled to get anything going last year with the offense getting bailed out by the defense a lot. If Stidham is to get there then he obviously has a lot to learn. This is not the offense to learn with.


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    #4360
    BizzyC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    I don't think we should bench Cam unless we plan on entering full tank mode.
    Stidham clearly doesn't have coaches confidence behind him to do better than Cam, and we have the worst supporting cast in football.
    Cam & James White are the only skill players on our offence that I think would potentially start on another team, not any team either just 1 or 2 each out of the 31....
    Most of our other skill players would struggle to stay on rosters elsewhere.

    I'd like to think we'll keep Cam in place (unless we can upgrade in the offseason) and use the picks from the probable Gilmore trade to fix the offence.
    What will likely happen though is Bill will use our 1st top-10 pick in 20 years on a defensive lineman and go back to picking up skill positions in rounds 3-6...


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    #4361
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,719 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I think we should bench/cut cam as the experiment hasnt worked. Probably no benefit to cutting him so just let him see out his contract this year and move on.
    Trade gilmore and anyone else of peak value. Build in the draft and trade for a wr/te


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    #4362
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Christy42 wrote: »
    I mean you can be pretty sure that I am not the answer without me seeing the field.

    Bill sees him in training. Brady went from a flawed but intriguing answer that they bent backwards to keep him on the roster year 1 with 4 QBs who quickly jumped up to 2nd without really seeing the field. He was showing signs of learning pretty quickly already. Not that I would have called it but there was something there to show he could do it.

    Studham was beat out by Hoyer in training and this isn't a team to drop a young qb into for the hope.

    Outside of the injured eagles you likely have the worst set of receivers in the league. At least the Jets have Crowder. Cam can make it work because he is a weapon. Brady struggled to get anything going last year with the offense getting bailed out by the defense a lot. If Stidham is to get there then he obviously has a lot to learn. This is not the offense to learn with.

    Brady should never have gone as low as he did either. His performances, including beating Alabama in the bowl, clearly demonstrated his talents.


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    #4363
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,878 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    AbusesToilets wrote:
    Brady should never have gone as low as he did either. His performances, including beating Alabama in the bowl, clearly demonstrated his talents.

    He never looked good in preseasom games though. There was no way to know how good he was. Even when he got to start he spent his first couple of years as a game manager so he wasn't that highly thought of.


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    #4364
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He never looked good in preseasom games though. There was no way to know how good he was. Even when he got to start he spent his first couple of years as a game manager so he wasn't that highly thought of.

    He led the league in tds in either his 2nd or 3rd seasons as a starter. The game manager label has always been a lazy, and inaccurate trope.


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    #4365
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,878 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    AbusesToilets wrote:
    He led the league in tds in either his 2nd or 3rd seasons as a starter. The game manager label has always been a lazy, and inaccurate trope.
    You know I remember Daunte Culpepper leading that category one season and Carson Palmer too.
    I'm not going to bother checking but I'd bet his first three full seasons are in his five lowest yardage numbers, same with yards per attempt and yards per game obviously.


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    #4366
    BizzyC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    eagle eye wrote: »
    You know I remember Daunte Culpepper leading that category one season and Carson Palmer too.
    I'm not going to bother checking but I'd bet his first three full seasons are in his five lowest yardage numbers, same with yards per attempt and yards per game obviously.

    True, but we also had a much better offence around him and Tom was able to make most of those yards off of play-action.
    2002 Pats -
    Troy Brown, David Patten, Deion Branch, David Givens, Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham, Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk - every one of these guys would be an upgrade on our offence.
    Not to mention the O-Line was phenomenal as well - Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Russ Hochstein, Damien Woody, Stephen Neal....

    Right now we have Cam and White as the only weapons.
    Somehow we've still come down to the wire in a few games that we've lost on the back of Cam's playmaking - Seattle was 2 yards away, the Bills was a fumble on a promising drive.

    If you take Cam out now, we're not competitive in any games and the poor kid asked to stand in the backfield and take a beating will be ruined for next season.


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    #4367
    el Fenomeno
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    Unusual (but slightly refreshing) to see Bill being so candid about our current situation.

    https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1323357453300412417?s=20


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    #4368
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Brady went 12-4, threw for 4000+yds and had a 28:4 td/int ratio with this team last season. Could easily have been 14-2 if the refs didn't **** us against the Chiefs and if the defense didn't let Fitzmagic drive the field for the win.

    I love Cam, and really wanted him to kill it, but he's been really poor.


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    #4369
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    AbusesToilets wrote: »

    I love Cam, and really wanted him to kill it, but he's been really poor.

    He started well but a combination of poor form from him, and defences figuring that the WR corps was poor so he was never looking to throw meant they could stack the box and put pressure on the many many 3rd and 4s/5s.


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    #4370
    paulie21
    Registered Users Posts: 17,871 ✭✭✭✭paulie21


    We've traded for Dolphins WR Isisah Ford. Must admit never heard of him but Dolphins fans are pissed so not a bad sign


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    #4371
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,878 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    paulie21 wrote:
    We've traded for Dolphins WR Isisah Ford. Must admit never heard of him but Dolphins fans are pissed so not a bad sign

    He plays a lot in the slot which is something we badly need.
    A quicker outlet for the QB, if he is half the player the last slit guy we got from the Dolphins was it'll be a great move. That last slot guy we got from them was Wes Welker.


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    #4372
    Mr. Guappa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,716 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    paulie21 wrote: »
    We've traded for Dolphins WR Isisah Ford. Must admit never heard of him but Dolphins fans are pissed so not a bad sign

    2022 7th rounder it seems.


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    #4373
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,719 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    So we got him for nothing so.
    I have to say, watching the bucs games and ours, I am finding it hard not to be envious and feel BB made the wrong decision. He should have either moved on a year sooner and kept Garropolo or kept Tom ad infinitum


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    #4374
    me89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭me89


    ELM327 wrote: »
    So we got him for nothing so.
    I have to say, watching the bucs games and ours, I am finding it hard not to be envious and feel BB made the wrong decision. He should have either moved on a year sooner and kept Garropolo or kept Tom ad infinitum

    I really don't see why so many people are saying we should of kept Jimmy G, overpaid average QB who misses more games through injury then he starts, he lasted 6 quarters with us before getting injured.


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    #4375
    BizzyC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    At this point I'm less concerned about this years offensive woes, and looking moreso at the cap and the state we'll be in next season.
    We need to clear out some of our older players to have any chance of rebuilding decently.

    2021 Edelman due $6.7m, DMac $11m, Hightower $12.4m, Gilmore $16.4m, Chung $5.1m

    I honestly cant see the value in keeping these guys any more.
    We have too many holes around the rest of the team to be so heavily invested in them.


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    #4376
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,878 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Amazingly we are in a grest cap situation next year and a lot of teams will be struggling to stay under the cap.
    Great chance of picking up free agents cheaper than normal as not many teams will be in the market.


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    #4377
    dh1985
    Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭dh1985


    ELM327 wrote: »
    So we got him for nothing so.
    I have to say, watching the bucs games and ours, I am finding it hard not to be envious and feel BB made the wrong decision. He should have either moved on a year sooner and kept Garropolo or kept Tom ad infinitum

    This is easy. We should have kept tom brady. Why we let the greatest qb of all time walk I cannot fathom. Also the fact that he had put near two decades into team and never demanded his true value to assist with building a stronger team around him should have been acknowledged and respected by providing him with the weapons he deserved.


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    #4378
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,878 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    dh1985 wrote:
    This is easy. We should have kept tom brady. Why we let the greatest qb of all time walk I cannot fathom. Also the fact that he had put near two decades into team and never demanded his true value to assist with building a stronger team around him should have been acknowledged and respected by providing him with the weapons he deserved.
    Do you know for certain that we made the choice to move in and not Brady?

    Like he restructured his contract to give him the option and sold his house.


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    #4379
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Do you know for certain that we made the choice to move in and not Brady?

    Like he restructured his contract to give him the option and sold his house.

    I think the die was cast when they didn't offer him a new contract after 2018. He felt underappreciated, and likely saw the dearth of talent on offense coming.


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    #4380
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,288 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    dh1985 wrote: »
    This is easy. We should have kept tom brady. Why we let the greatest qb of all time walk I cannot fathom.

    Because we weren't winning the superbowl even with him there, and had he stayed it was just kicking the can down the road a year or 2 before he finally packed up, a transition period like this was inevitable, necessary even.


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    #4381
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,719 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    me89 wrote: »
    I really don't see why so many people are saying we should of kept Jimmy G, overpaid average QB who misses more games through injury then he starts, he lasted 6 quarters with us before getting injured.
    My point is more - now we're left with nothing.

    BizzyC wrote: »
    At this point I'm less concerned about this years offensive woes, and looking moreso at the cap and the state we'll be in next season.
    We need to clear out some of our older players to have any chance of rebuilding decently.

    2021 Edelman due $6.7m, DMac $11m, Hightower $12.4m, Gilmore $16.4m, Chung $5.1m

    I honestly cant see the value in keeping these guys any more.
    We have too many holes around the rest of the team to be so heavily invested in them.


    Agree

    I'd trade all of those now.
    Maybe not Edelman as he's 36 next year and we wouldnt get value for him.


    dh1985 wrote: »
    This is easy. We should have kept tom brady. Why we let the greatest qb of all time walk I cannot fathom. Also the fact that he had put near two decades into team and never demanded his true value to assist with building a stronger team around him should have been acknowledged and respected by providing him with the weapons he deserved.
    +1


    His contract offer was disgraceful frankly after decades of team friendly contracts


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