cz 452 not ejecting spents.

MarcinG

Hello guys/girls

Quick one: my cz 452 is sometimes leaving shells/live cartridge(if lets say i want to take it out when i'm walking around) in the barrel.
I thought it may be something to do with dirty barrel but i clean it every use with brushes/oiled rag and then drying it till swab leaves not oily marks on tissue so i would imagine it is pretty sound.
From my ignorant perspective those 2 prongs at the end of bolt grab the rim as you close action but they fail to do so? Is this well known problem? Anything i could do to fix it? (mechanism is oiled quite generously "prongs" move around tight but smooth when pressed).
(I know i can buy whole mechanism but what if mechanism is fine but something else is not?)
It started to happen recently (i only have gun for few months now)
It worked with federal bulk (had plenty FTF but thats beside point), CCI subsonics, and velocitors and started to happen as i switched winchester subsonics (IDK if this is relevant) Just happen to take winchesters only with me so i couldn't test it with other rounds. It doesn't happen always i would say every 5-10 rounds.
Any ideas?

Mech1

Have you done this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYuBOw5CSFE

Cass

On the front of the bolt you have two extractor claws. They are two plastic pieces that are held on with a metal Circlip. One removes the case from the chamber and the other throws it out the ejection port.

The video above shows how to take the bolt apart and clean them which is important to do at least every couple of months, more if you use the rifle frequently. The other aspect to this is the chamber. The two claws protrude out past the bolt face. They sit into grooves in the chamber face as shown in the picture i've just taken:



If these are excessively blocked up they will not grab the case rim and hence cannot extract the case/round.

The other thing to check are the claws themselves. On an old gun they may be excessively worn and not functioning properly. The other thing, and few people think this can happen on a new gun is, they are too "new". By this i mean the 90 degree angle of the claw allows them to slip off the case before it can get a proper purchase on the case to remove it. They way to check this is the next time the bolt fails to extract the case look in and see if it has moved the case out of the chamber at all or is it still fully in the chamber.

If it is taking it out a little then it's slippage. This can be easily fixed with a very, very fine file and a little help from youtube for visual help.


Before you go through that though, clean the areas highlighted in my picture and strip the bolt down to clean it thoroughly. If the problem persists after this then you need to look at other causes.

MarcinG

Mech1: yes. funny enough also used leatherman to remove "prongs". I may do it again. Handy idea with shell. I destroyed one of my screwdrivers pushing this part back against spring.

Cass: thank you too. i will look into it this afternoon.

2 extra questions:

1 is there a way they should sit (like extractor left/holder right or something?) i took it apart some time ago and failed to see difference put them in random places.

2 how often do i suppose to clean bore? i bought some cleaning rod (3 pieces) with few attachments but saw no video/manual on how to use it properly.
and since bought "bore snake" (which not arrived to me yet). After first day of shooting 20-40 rounds i used plastic brush and then swab to clean bore and found nothing in it (swab was pretty clean) on the other hand receiver and bolt were quite dirty (and silencer/moderator which i bought with the rifle newer seen cleaning in its life was full of lead). Do i try to use lead solvent (i bought some cleaning fluid for silencer) or i consider bore being "clean" where brushing and swabbing show no dirt?

MarcinG

Cass: when it fails it is sort hard to tell as i'm usually busy watching rabbit and only noticing that action won't close as chamber is full but on this stage new round already pushed case back into chamber even if it wasn't fully in.

i looked up this:
http://www.shop-cz.com/rimfire-spare-parts/c-1219/

and couldn't see significant difference in between holder and extractor. in my case left one (holder?) has edges rounded (including that place where it grabs rim. While right one (extractor) is more sharp on edges.
It looks like pictures i found on internet.

I also checked that place on the barrel and it didn't look too dirty or greasy. I dry cycled few magazines though and it works flawlessly every time. But i'm almost certain it will happen again. i think i will order those parts from cz as it would be +- 15 euro.

Cass

MarcinG wrote: »

1 is there a way they should sit (like extractor left/holder right or something?) i took it apart some time ago and failed to see difference put them in random places.

"Holder" on the left and extractor on the right. As per the picture:



As per the picture you'll notice the holder has a different shape to the extractor/ejector. This is to allow the case to be ejected without the left extractor holding it. If not you would have to manually pick each case from the bolt after opening it.

2 how often do i suppose to clean bore? i bought some cleaning rod (3 pieces) with few attachments but saw no video/manual on how to use it properly.
and since bought "bore snake" (which not arrived to me yet). After first day of shooting 20-40 rounds i used plastic brush and then swab to clean bore and found nothing in it (swab was pretty clean) on the other hand receiver and bolt were quite dirty (and silencer/moderator which i bought with the rifle newer seen cleaning in its life was full of lead). Do i try to use lead solvent (i bought some cleaning fluid for silencer) or i consider bore being "clean" where brushing and swabbing show no dirt?

Take the three piece rod and bore snake and bin both of them. Get yourself a one piece rod of decent quality and the various jags/attachments such as nylon brush, mops, etc. Then look for a rimfire blend designed for rimfire rifles.

Cleaning regime should be whenever you need it. That sounds vague, but there is no real set time frame for regular cleaning. It depends on usage, amount of rounds fired, how the gun likes to be fired, etc.

For a list of products and a regime look at posts 4 & 5 in this thread. While it's aimed for a centrfire you can substitute the rimfire product for the Centrefire stuff and follow the same procedure.

MarcinG wrote: »

Cass: when it fails it is sort hard to tell as i'm usually busy watching rabbit and only noticing that action won't close as chamber is full but on this stage new round already pushed case back into chamber even if it wasn't fully in.

I understand, but next time you cycle the bolt and you see no case ejected then look into the chamber/action before cycling the next round.

i looked up this:
http://www.shop-cz.com/rimfire-spare-parts/c-1219/

and couldn't see significant difference in between holder and extractor. in my case left one (holder?) has edges rounded (including that place where it grabs rim. While right one (extractor) is more sharp on edges.
It looks like pictures i found on internet.

There is no need to replace these parts if they are not worn. Can you take a picture of your bolt head like i did above. Try to get one as clear as possible and post it here to see if there is any damage.

I also checked that place on the barrel and it didn't look too dirty or greasy. I dry cycled few magazines though and it works flawlessly every time. But i'm almost certain it will happen again. i think i will order those parts from cz as it would be +- 15 euro.

As said above no need for new parts if the existing ones are fine. Also if this happens so infrequently it might be "one of those things". Also try to keep check on ammo. Does it happen more with one type over the rest. And maintain the action cleaning more so than the barrel/bore cleaning.

MarcinG

i'm back. here are the pictures

Cass

Do you see the difference between the ejector on your bolt to the one on mine. The "lip" of mine is much more pronounced than on your one meaning it's either a manufacturing fault (if the gun is brand new) or wear and tear (if the gun is second hand).

You have two options:

1. Buy the new one as per your link
2. Take out the ejector and using a very fine file, file the "lip" to make it longer or more pronounced. This will give it more purchase on the case.

Rimfire Shooter

MarcinG wrote: »

i'm back. here are the pictures

Your problem is easily solved. The bolt head is covered in/dripping oil. Get a clean cloth a wipe off all the excess oil.

The bolt & chamber should be lightly oiled & then wiped dry, not like in your pictures.

Rimfire Shooter

MarcinG wrote: »

i'm back. here are the pictures

Your problem is easily solved. The bolt head is covered in/dripping oil. Get a clean cloth a wipe off all the excess oil.

The bolt & chamber should be lightly oiled & then wiped dry, not like in your pictures.

Upon further inspection your firing pin is dripping in oil too..........that's why you're getting ftf's. strip it & wipe off all excess oil from pin, spring & inside of bolt.

goz83

Comparing the two photos, what I can see is that the lip on the right looks like a piece is worn, or broken. It is not as sharp as the one you posted up Cass.

Deaf git

Before filing anything I'd remove excess oil as stated above.
If you have extraction problems I'd check the chamber to make sure it's clean with no pits, crud etc that grip the bullet casing. Needless to say, don't swamp your barrell with oil- firing from a dry chamber won't do any harm.
Some .22 rounds are coated with too much greasy lubricant and in cold weather become really sticky in the chamber- sk rounds in the can are particularly bad.
Use a toothpick to scrape out any gunk in the two notches in the chamber face.
Is there an indent on the chamber face caused by dry firing? Most cz's are ok to dryfire but this might be an older gun and there are exceptions to every rule.

juice1304

I always had that problem with winchester subs, they group well but are dirty.

MarcinG

I shot over 100 (mostly cci subsonics) rounds today (learning curve - now know that winds like today are no good for scope zeroing - knew it will affect it but not expected that much at certain point every single time i wanted to reload i would find casing stuck.
They were hard to remove using knife. And out of sudden they were working fine again.

Ps sometimes (quite often) removing mag and recycling action will get casing out. And at peak of my problems (i would say 10 out of 10 stuck) i had no problem cycling ammunition through...

Ps I noticed every casing being dirty around front opening. Will this indicate bore being very dirty and creating extra friction? or rifle being badly worn or something?

Ps along tools you mentioned Cass i see no metal (brass?) brush is this no no or just not mentioned?

MarcinG

Ps any shop in Ireland doing CZ parts? parts from CZ are 11 euro and delivery is 40 euro...

Cass

MarcinG wrote: »

I shot over 100 (mostly cci subsonics) rounds today (learning curve - now know that winds like today are no good for scope zeroing - knew it will affect it but not expected that much

The wind will blow a .22lr (subsonic) off a huge amount even in a mild wind.

at certain point every single time i wanted to reload i would find casing stuck.

Did you try the tip i gave above about checking to see if the case ws partially out of the chamber or not?

They were hard to remove using knife. And out of sudden they were working fine again.

When you say the rifle is clean, is it clean to your eye or is it actually clean. Not being a dick or a smart arse just i've seen lads that look at their gun and think it's clean, but when they check it again or start to clean again they find it's still dirty.

Ps sometimes (quite often) removing mag and recycling action will get casing out. And at peak of my problems (i would say 10 out of 10 stuck) i had no problem cycling ammunition through...

Have you tried firing without the mag? If so are you having any issues. There is a slim, and i mean anorexic, chance that the mag has a lip or imperfection that may be causing this. However i'll highly doubt it or i'd the problem would be present all the time.

Ps I noticed every casing being dirty around front opening. Will this indicate bore being very dirty and creating extra friction? or rifle being badly worn or something?

When you say "front opening" do you mean the neck of the case (where the bullet is placed into the case). This is not uncommon on most calibers, but if it's excessive it can indicate a problem.

Ps along tools you mentioned Cass i see no metal (brass?) brush is this no no or just not mentioned?

I hate them. There is no Godly reason for them and in rifles that use a copper or copper plated/dipped bullet they can give a false positive. I prefer to let the chemicals do the work, but if needed i'll use a nylon brush. It works the same a brass brush, but without most of the side effects.

MarcinG wrote: »

Ps any shop in Ireland doing CZ parts? parts from CZ are 11 euro and delivery is 40 euro...

None that i know keep parts, that you're after, in stock.

If you want you can either order a few bits to make the shipping worth it or do a group buy between yourself and a few others looking for parts and then split the cost of the shipping.

MarcinG

Cass wrote: »

Did you try the tip i gave above about checking to see if the case ws partially out of the chamber or not?

most of them were tight in. Some were about 1mm out.
And as i wrote after good few i tried to cycle action (after removing mag)
and quite often it will properly eject on second attempt.

When you say the rifle is clean, is it clean to your eye or is it actually clean.

I wish i could know. I'm sort of perfectionist but failed to find a single video/manual on cleaning my rifle (and even cz sells 3 piece kits and bore snakes not a single piece rods). I have hoppe 9 synthetic blend bore cleaner i will try to use it now. Previously I made assumption that shop which sold me gun cleaned it. After i bought it i shot it maybe 20-30 times then i only used swab and plastic brush from 3piece set both looked clean so i made assumption that bore is clean. Since i bought it i fired it around 200 times?

Have you tried firing without the mag? If so are you having any issues.

nope (i mean tried only once and it worked fine).

When you say "front opening" do you mean the neck of the case (where the bullet is placed into the case). This is not uncommon on most calibers, but if it's excessive it can indicate a problem.

Yes.
My English is far from perfect when it comes to guns.
I just took some of them out of bin they are not very dirty. I would describe it as smudged with well used grease. You can rub it of easily and feel slight stickiness to it. We are talking last mm maybe less.

Ps. when it comes to ftf as result of too much oil not a single cartridge failed to fire after i stopped using bulk federals (i guess i will try to use as many of them as possible over the weekend i used 2 or 3 kinds of cci and winchester subsonics. Some of my federals landed back in box and after inspection have up to 3 notches and still not fired.

Cass

MarcinG wrote: »

most of them were tight in. Some were about 1mm out.

Right so either the extractors are missing the case altogether or something is focing the case to remain int he chamber after the bolt is cycled. It could be a number of things, but my own thoughts are two specific things:

1. Really gunked up chamber (easily solved with a good/thorough clean)
2. Faulty extractor (needs repair or replacing)

And as i wrote after good few i tried to cycle action (after removing mag)
and quite often it will properly eject on second attempt.

Was thinking after wards myself and the position of the mag cannot account for the problem.

I wish i could know. I'm sort of perfectionist but failed to find a single video/manual on cleaning my rifle (and even cz sells 3 piece kits and bore snakes not a single piece rods).

It doesn't matter if they sell them, don't use them. Three piece rods are not as strong as one piece rods and can cause damage to the bore over prolonged use. This damage is slight and requires years of excessive cleaning but why bother. Plus most of the three piece rods are not coated in a protective coating/plastic.

Bore snakes are an emergency tool. They have a brass brush and mop together. They collect fouling with each pass and cannot properly clean the gun to a satisfactory level.

Dump both of them and get some good quality gear. It'll be the life of the rifle.

As for how. Did you read my link above and apply it to the rimfire? If not try it. Also invest in some solvents. Oil cannot remove carbon fouling or lead fouling. At the very least get some KG1 and if you cannot get/find some rimfire blend then go for Forest Foam, wipe out or MPro-7. They should suffice.

Previously I made assumption that shop which sold me gun cleaned it. After i bought it i shot it maybe 20-30 times then i only used swab and plastic brush from 3piece set both looked clean so i made assumption that bore is clean. Since i bought it i fired it around 200 times?

When cleaning always use patches or felts and they must be wet and clean to be fully clean. If you use a dry patch it'll leave residue in the bore.

Yes.
My English is far from perfect when it comes to guns.

It's not your English. People call the same thing by different names so i wanted to be clear before going further.

I just took some of them out of bin they are not very dirty. I would describe it as smudged with well used grease. You can rub it of easily and feel slight stickiness to it. We are talking last mm maybe less.

I would start with a serious and thorough cleaning to eliminate this so you can focus on other possible causes.

Ps. when it comes to ftf as result of too much oil not a single cartridge failed to fire after i stopped using bulk federals (i guess i will try to use as many of them as possible over the weekend i used 2 or 3 kinds of cci and winchester subsonics. Some of my federals landed back in box and after inspection have up to 3 notches and still not fired.

Definitely try some other ammo. If you're getting mis-fires be careful off hangfires and get rid of all ammo with firing pin strikes that did not fire.

Witcher

Did you buy the rifle second hand?

If you did the chamber is probably pot dirty, wet the chamber with some of your Hoppes and let it sit for about 15 mins, then get your rod and brush and put the brush into the chamber and just turn it around and around in the chamber....about 20/30 times then clean out the bore with a patch.

MarcinG

Was thinking after wards myself and the position of the mag cannot account for the problem.

Only reason for removing mag was that new round was in the way of bolt.

As for how. Did you read my link above and apply it to the rimfire? If not try it. Also invest in some solvents. Oil cannot remove carbon fouling or lead fouling. At the very least get some KG1 and if you cannot get/find some rimfire blend then go for Forest Foam, wipe out or MPro-7. They should suffice.

looked at it all right (planned to look at it carefully before going to shop to buy actual stuff).
As for now i took some of hoppers (or whatever the name) and ran it up and down chamber few times (adding few drops of it every time). changed tissue and ran it once more it came out only slightly dirty this time (even previous time wasn't too bad if i would grease bicycle ball bearing i would consider it clean enough to apply new grease. Then i used nylon brush (no gunk on it at all). and then that soft brush/swab/mop for lack of better name - it also came out clean.

When cleaning always use patches or felts and they must be wet and clean to be fully clean. If you use a dry patch it'll leave residue in the bore.

ok.

Definitely try some other ammo. If you're getting mis-fires be careful off hangfires and get rid of all ammo with firing pin strikes that did not fire.

i will give a last go to it next weekend. I have mixed feelings what to do with it though. I thought of dumping it to the sea (idea behind being that it will rot in days and cause no explosion - which may happen if i would just bin it if someone will lit rubbish. Didn't think much of lead (leaving up to a kg of lead a day in sea on a single day of fishing).

MarcinG

Strider wrote: »

Did you buy the rifle second hand?

If you did the chamber is probably pot dirty, wet the chamber with some of your Hoppes and let it sit for about 15 mins, then get your rod and brush and put the brush into the chamber and just turn it around and around in the chamber....about 20/30 times then clean out the bore with a patch.

Yes i bought it second time knowing that it is my first one. I knew I will almost certainly not happy with some of its features (second time i would buy something with higher comb and without iron sights and maybe stainless instead of blued, and with bigger magazine, also 5.5-16x44 scope was ridiculously big for me - i changed it already), or i will screw something up because poor knowledge (better to be few hundred euro sorry than a thousand) which i already did by leaving gun in a bag after wet day - not expected tiny spots of rust to pop up next day...)

Coming back to cleaning as i said i used stuff as i described (but waited 1-2 minutes not 15). Using same stuff i cleaned (roughly - too much gunk to do it right i would rather take dremel to it than wait for hoppers to eat through) silencer and it worked quite fast so i would imagine for thin layer of lead in barrel (i mean there is no room for a 1mm of gunk in there) it should work right away (manual doesn't mention to wait). But i will do it next time round.

Cass

Can you take a picture, as close up and as clear as possible, of the bolt face. Straight on.

I want to compare my bolt face to your one as i still think its the extractor because if you've cleaned the bolt, removed the excess oil and it's still happening then it has to be the extractor, etc.

MarcinG

Cass wrote: »

Can you take a picture, as close up and as clear as possible, of the bolt face. Straight on.

I want to compare my bolt face to your one as i still think its the extractor because if you've cleaned the bolt, removed the excess oil and it's still happening then it has to be the extractor, etc.

oh yes i do believe it is extractor. And i don't think i can take any better picture (it is show as miniature - if you click on it/download it it is 15mpix macro. if i push cartridge to it it holds it (not very strong but it is not falling out)
What i will try to do will be file the tip a little bit and see what happens.
In mean time i sent question to cz can they put pins into envelope instead of shipping it on a euro pallet

PS what you think of my cleaning technique? Should i expect visible grey matter on nylon brush to call barrel dirty or i can consider it clean only when little patch comes out pristine? (which is bit hard without this bore adapter as it is touching receiver on the way in)

Cass

MarcinG wrote: »

oh yes i do believe it is extractor. And i don't think i can take any better picture (it is show as miniature - if you click on it/download it it is 15mpix macro. if i push cartridge to it it holds it (not very strong but it is not falling out)

The picture you took above is grand, but it's at an angle. I was looking for the same except take the picture straight on the bolt face. Something like this:



I've outlined the edge of my bolt face and how far the extractor and holder claw come across the bolt face. If i had something like that from you it could be compared. Mine is an older gun and is well worn but still looks to be coming "in" more than your ones and i've never had an issue with extracting/ejecting the casings.

What i will try to do will be file the tip a little bit and see what happens.
In mean time i sent question to cz can they put pins into envelope instead of shipping it on a euro pallet

I found this. It'll explain how to and what part you should file.

PS what you think of my cleaning technique? Should i expect visible grey matter on nylon brush to call barrel dirty or i can consider it clean only when little patch comes out pristine? (which is bit hard without this bore adapter as it is touching receiver on the way in)

When the patches come out wet and clean then the rifle is clean. You say you don't have a bore guide so the patches can pick up some fouling as you try to put the rod into the bore. The action, chamber, etc should all be as clean so should pick up no fouling as you try to do this.

Use a chamber brush, toothpick or whatever you have to, to get to the awkward places in the chamber. Here is what i would do:

1. Remove bolt, magazine and make sure gun is safe/clear
2. Place in a gun vise or make sure the rifle is clamped.
3. I tie a piece of string around the trigger, give it a gentle pull, and then tie the string to the vise. This will drop the bolt latch and allow rods, etc to go into the action without hitting anything or getting caught/snagged
4. Place a cloth over the buttstock at the back of the action to catch any drips/fouling from the rod as you use it
5. Clean the chamber/inside the action first.
6. Spray it liberally with oil. I prefer Brunox but it's up to you.
7. Use a shotgun brush, cloth wrapped on a stick, finger or chamber brush to clean the inside of the action. If the oil dries up then give it another spray. I also use a small amount of KG1 but you need to be careful with this. It shouldn't strip any bluing but take no chances.
8. Continue to clean the action while keeping it "damp" with oil so the fouling cannot dry and harden back onto the action.
9. Use a chamber brush or angled brush to clean where the holder/extractor sit when the bolt is closed. If you don't have this then use a toothpick. Spray into this area very liberally with oil. Preferably a pressurised canister so the oil not only oils but removes lose fouling.
10. If you have access to an air line it's not harm to blow it out with one
11. Keep at this until you are completely satisfied it's clean
12. Once you're happy with the action start into the bore/chamber. They are basically the same size as the bullet of a .22lr is the same diameter as the case hence the chamber. Unlike a 243 or 308 where the bullet is smaller and a different shape to the case and the chamber is a very distinct section to the bore that needs special attention.
13. Have your one piece rod and attach a patch. Soak it with KG1. Run the patch down the bore taken care to guide the rod into the chamber/bore without banging off the sides.
14. Push the rod slowly down the bore making sure the rod turns as you pus it down.
15. The first run down with the rod will be stiff as it's pushing against the fouling and other "obstacles".
16. As the rod exists the muzzle, remove the patch, then the jag.
17. Pull the rod out of the rifle and wipe the rod with a cloth to remove any debris or fouling stuck to the rod. Do this every time you take the rod out of the bore/rifle
18. Reattach the jag and place another patch on it.
19. Soak the patch in KG1 and run it back into the bore
20. Remove the patch, jag and pull the rod out (once again wiping the rod)
21. Now leave it to sit for a minimum of 5 minutes up to 15 minutes
22. Attach the jag, put on a patch and soak in KG1. Run it down the bore
23. Remove the patch, jag and pull the rod out (once again wiping the rod)
24. Attach your nylon brush to the rod.
25. Run it down the barrel, and remove the brush once out the muzzle
26. Remove the rod, wipe it, and attach the brush again.
27. Repeat this for a few strokes. It helps agitate and loosen the "stuck on" fouling. It's no harm to put some KG1 on the brush to keep the bore wet
28. Now run two soaked patches (soaked with KG1) down the bore. This will remove any loose fouling and the second patch will soak the bore again
29. Let it sit again for 5 - 15 minutes
30. Now you patch out the bore with patches soaked with oil (Brunox or whatever you have)
31. DON'T run any dry patches. All patches should be wet with oil.
32. Keep running patches until they run clean and wet
33. If you find there is still fouling and it's not "going away" then run another patch or three of KG1 and basically clean the bore again (repeat the steps above)
34. When you are happy the bore is clean, by checking the patches are wet and clean) and you're patched it out with oiled patches then it's time to mop it out
35. Run a dry patch down the bore. Repeat this for between 5 - 10 patches.
36. I then run two patches, sprayed with meth spirits, to remove any excess oils/solvents left in the barrel
37. I then run one more dry patch down the bore
38. I then use a mop and run it down once or twice
39. Then wipe the muzzle of the rifle and clean away any fouling that remains from the cleaning of the bore
40. Now back to the chamber.
41. There may be some oil or "leftovers" from the bore cleaning
42. It should be collected up around the back of the chamber
43. Wipe this down well and clan again if necessary
44. Wipe the mag well as any excess from the jag being pushed into the chamber will result in drippings running down the mag well
45. Blow out with air line or dry with cloth/patches
46. With a clean, fresh cloth, wipe the action on the outside, the barrel, stock, etc. Make sure there is no run off from under the stock (around the trigger/mag well)
47. If you're nervous that you've left some oil in the bore then wrap up a piece of cloth into a roll and place it in the action and store the rifle with barrel up to allow any excess to run into the cloth. Check the cloth after 24 hours. Any excess will be collected by then

During the time you are waiting for the solvent to work you can strip the bolt down and clean. You don't need to strip the bolt every time you clean the rifle, but you should clean it (without stripping) on every clean and then strip at regular intervals.

You don't need to use KG1. It can be rimfire blend or other solvent that works on lead and carbon. The reason to repeat the cleaning process is because the fouling may be heavy or "layered". IOW the person before you just ran a patch down the rifle and when the dry patch came out clean they stopped. This allows a build up of fouling.

The reason to wipe the the rod each time is to avoid running fouling stuck to the rod body back into the rifle. Also remove the jag. brush, etc. each time at the muzzle to prevent pulling any fouling back in and down the bore. It also prevents any abrasive action against the muzzle that may occur when pulling the rod with brush back through the muzzle.

Lastly, cleaning is not a race. If you're not inform for cleaning then don't. Wait until you are in the mood to do it, and then take you time. It's not a fast process and you need to have patience to allow for all the steps and to allow the solvent/chemicals to do their job.

MarcinG

pictures of bolt and shells (they are slightly cleaner than after taking out from gun). updates this post as first picture was blank?

MarcinG

shells

Cass

Here is your bolt face compared to mine (as said my own is an older rifle so wear should be the same)



There are three things to note:

1. The yellow boxed areas show how far the holder/extractor goes in on both. Mine seem to sit further in than your ones.
2. The Blue circled areas show that your holders angled piece seems to be flush with the edge of the bolt face whereas on mine it protrudes out past it. Allowing for a better grip on the case head
3. The red lined section helps to highlight this difference

Your extractor seems to be okay enough, however on it's own cannot do both jobs.

As for the shells. They look extremely dirty. They should not be coming out that fouled. now it could be a dirty chamber/bore or poor ammo.

Are they all the same brand of ammo of is it mixed? If it's the same then it could be the ammo or chamber. If it's mixed then it's the chamber.

MarcinG

they are on the bottom of the bin now can't tell. Probably all cci subsonics of single box or winchester subsonics (i shot 100 cci and about 20-30 of mixed cci/winchesters from 2nd box).

back to extractors i will just try to take it apart once more and see.

thank you.

MarcinG

so i took it apart i tightened the band holding it together and filed slightly edges + part touching bolt (in hope that it will go closer to it hence tighter claws at the end - as you see on picture there was no need for it):
on second picture you can see that there is still a room for claws to worn out before lip will be too short to catch the rim. Unfortunately i did not think and take no picture of bullet in there beforehand.
Ps afterwards i can easily hold the bolt mechanism in the air by holding round in my fingers - again i don't think it was so firm before.
What make me wonder though is a fact that there is plenty of room in between rim and claws don't know if this is normal.

Ps i will try to do some shooting over the weekend and will feedback.

Cass

MarcinG wrote: »

i don't think it was so firm before.

If it seems improved that'll do for the time being.

What make me wonder though is a fact that there is plenty of room in between rim and claws don't know if this is normal.

I'd assume that would be to allow for wear so that you don't have ejection/extraction problems the very minute they start to wear.

I'd be more concerned with tension on the holder and extractor. There can be loads of room or very little. As long as the tension on both is good and they are getting a tight hold of the case then that is half the battle.

Ps i will try to do some shooting over the weekend and will feedback.

If you think the filing has solved or reduced the issue then i'd highly suggest you give the rifle a thorough cleaning and start from a fresh perspective. Also try to shoot slowly, take note of the case in the chamber, the fouling on the necks, the brands of the ammo, etc.

IOW document everything. It's very hard to come up with ideas or solutions without all the info.

Hope it works out for you.

MarcinG

shot 50-60 rounds today and every one of them worked fine. Thanks every one.

Cass

Delighted for ya. Happy shooting.

Tea drinker

Always knew this could be an issue but it's nice to see such a comprehensive thread about it!

MarcinG

shot another 150 rounds today (to learn another lesson - i will start new thread for it ps all ejecting fine

Cass

Problems?

lucy333springer

MarcinG wrote: »

Hello guys/girls

Quick one: my cz 452 is sometimes leaving shells/live cartridge(if lets say i want to take it out when i'm walking around) in the barrel.
I thought it may be something to do with dirty barrel but i clean it every use with brushes/oiled rag and then drying it till swab leaves not oily marks on tissue so i would imagine it is pretty sound.
From my ignorant perspective those 2 prongs at the end of bolt grab the rim as you close action but they fail to do so? Is this well known problem? Anything i could do to fix it? (mechanism is oiled quite generously "prongs" move around tight but smooth when pressed).
(I know i can buy whole mechanism but what if mechanism is fine but something else is not?)
It started to happen recently (i only have gun for few months now)
It worked with federal bulk (had plenty FTF but thats beside point), CCI subsonics, and velocitors and started to happen as i switched winchester subsonics (IDK if this is relevant) Just happen to take winchesters only with me so i couldn't test it with other rounds. It doesn't happen always i would say every 5-10 rounds.
Any ideas?

You must
CLEAN BULLET CHAMBER

Coathanger, sandpaper, superglue and drill......worked for me

No more non ejecters.

Hope this helps, photos in next post, sorry

lucy333springer

Some photos for chamber cleaning.

Wadi14

Or simply buy a 243 copper brush and clean the bore with it and some solvent

Witcher

Sandpaper...sweet jesus. Do not take that advice, you could destroy the leade in the barrel. Things like that make you afraid to buy a second hand gun. Something like JB bore paste is good if you need it but not fcking sandpaper.

lucy333springer

Guy's let's get something right here,
the problem is a dirty CHAMBER, nothing to do with the BORE or anything else.
And Strider you should read your own posts, you already said to clean the chamber, lead barrel? Lol..also, yes you can clean out a gun chamber with light sandpaper turned a few times, it's only where the shell that hold's the bullet sits.......dirty shell's that stick in chamber cause's excessive wear on claws

Witcher

lucy333springer wrote: »

And Strider you should read your own posts, you already said to clean the chamber, lead barrel? Lol..also, yes you can clean out a gun chamber with light sandpaper turned a few times, it's only where the shell that hold's the bullet sits.......dirty shell's that stick in chamber cause's excessive wear on claws

Yes...I said to clean the chamber but not with f'ing sandpaper on a coat hanger chucked into a drill:pac:

'Lead barrel' it's spelled 'leade'...google that and see what you're potantially destroying ramming sandpaper into the chamber. I knew when I typed that post you wouldn't have a clue what the leade was:pac: