Nazi memorabilia for sale in Dublin. Appropriate?

Cool_CM

Quick, OP, search 'Iron Cross' on adverts and prepare to be offended!

Wibbs

They've also a few "nazi" watches on Adverts from time to time like this one(originally for women and tiny so…). Though sometimes there's a glut of utter fakes with SS symbols on the dials. They never* had any of that on original ones. Here's one, a Ukrainian special and yer man wants how much for it? Two grand :eek: :pac:






*with one exception, but you won't ever see one on Adverts.

All that evil memorabilia glorifying the 12 years of the Third Reich. Horrendous. We should only be buying memorabilia glorifying those gentle Union Jack-flying souls who for centuries heroically ruled over 25% of the planet out of a selfless desire to civilise the darkies/papists/uncivilised tribes/wilde Irishe and the heathen generally.

Bad Hitler. Nice die-hard mass murdering, Kurd-gassing, Irish-hating imperialist Mr Churchill.

And to the "Mother England saved us from Nazism" crowd of deluded fantasists, you lost c. 300,000 people in WW II, having collaborated - "appeasement" as you euphemistically term it - with Mr Hitler for six years before 1939 as he invaded a slew of places. The Russians lost between 25 and 30 million people resisting the same Mr Hitler. You don't hear either of these massively relevant historical facts amid your revisionist propaganda poppy campaigns (the irony of the Royal British Legion, the organisers of the poppy campaigns today, being one of Hitler's staunchest allies in the 1930s is quietly hushed up), of course.

Dyr

Actually if you really want creepy meorabilia try the adolf hitler and henry himmler replica figures that some company make nowadays

StudentDad

Henry Ford was a major contributor to the Nazi Party. Should we all boycott the Ford Motor Company? It irritates the hell out of me when these simplistic arguments are trotted out; Nazi's evil (them) Allies (not the free state, we were neutral) good. Of course we forget about De Valera sending notes of condolences to the German Reich on the death of Hitler.

Don't get me wrong the Nazi's were an evil party; but what seems to be forgotten is that we were just as brutal when we were part of the British Empire and bringing 'civilisation' to the rest of the planet. At the root of the abhorrence toward Hitler and his ilk, isn't that he started a world war and slaughtered millions. It was the fact that he slaughtered Europeans, in the heart of Europe! There lies the hypocrisy! Oh and in case someone thinks I'm a Nazi sympathiser, I'm not. Hitler and co. were an evil bunch of bastards. They needed to be stopped. What separated them from us at the time is that they just acted in accordance with their anti-semitic views. Views which to be honest were not the preserve of the Third Reich alone.

SD

Nodin

Bambi wrote: »

Actually if you really want creepy meorabilia try the adolf hitler and henry himmler replica figures that some company make nowadays

In Italy you used be able to get a model (premade, die cast) of Hitler in the Fuhrer-mobile, taking his heils.

Wurzelbert

Deleted User wrote: »

All that evil memorabilia glorifying the 12 years of the Third Reich. Horrendous. We should only be buying memorabilia glorifying those gentle Union Jack-flying souls who for centuries heroically ruled over 25% of the planet out of a selfless desire to civilise the darkies/papists/uncivilised tribes/wilde Irishe and the heathen generally.

Bad Hitler. Nice die-hard mass murdering, Kurd-gassing, Irish-hating imperialist Mr Churchill.

And to the "Mother England saved us from Nazism" crowd of deluded fantasists, you lost c. 300,000 people in WW II, having collaborated - "appeasement" as you euphemistically term it - with Mr Hitler for six years before 1939 as he invaded a slew of places. The Russians lost between 25 and 30 million people resisting the same Mr Hitler. You don't hear either of these massively relevant historical facts amid your revisionist propaganda poppy campaigns (the irony of the Royal British Legion, the organisers of the poppy campaigns today, being one of Hitler's staunchest allies in the 1930s is quietly hushed up), of course.

and don’t forget that it was the brits who started war against germany in 1914 and 1939 and thereby turned two european conflicts into world wars, both times without being attacked by germany but purely for the benefit of british trade and imperialism and to preserve britain’s status as a world power…remember the brits have waged wars even to make people smoke opium…the fact that they screwed themselves and lost their empire in the process is really but poetic justice…

Jawgap

I wonder which is my worst piece of militaria......

.......my Luftwaffe navigator's watch or my USAF / RAF navigator's watch - either or both of which may have been used by aircrew to guide a bomber over civilian concentrations?

They're artefacts.

Tony EH

humberklog wrote: »

For example: An Iron Cross without the swastika generally goes for more money than one with a swastika. The nazis gave them out like confetti. They're too common.

A few things.

The Germans most certainly did not hand out Iron Crosses of any class (2nd, 1st or Knights) like "confetti" in either of the world wars. You needed to have done something to be considered worthy, usually and act or acts of bravery, and you had to be recommended by your superior. It isn't a 'Purple Heart we're talking about here.

All Iron Crosses from 1939-45 have the swastika on them. If it's entirely without, then it's a medal that was produced after the war in West Germany for veterans to wear at ceremonies. These also had an oak leaf design on them too. If it's has a "W" in the middle, instead of a swastika, then it's a First World War medal, issued from 1914-18.

The most common Iron Cross is the 2nd Class iron Cross. This is probably what your friend was referencing to. This award was given out to military personnel with a ribbon attached. Black and silver in WWI and red, white and black during WWII. A recipient didn't wear the cross though. They merely wore the ribbon, tucked through a button hole in their tunic.

The 1st class Iron Cross is the one most people seek out and they are the most faked. This award was a pin decoration and worn on the left patch pocket of a persons tunic. It's usually what people associate with an "Iron Cross". Be very weary of any of these items being for sale outside what you should consider as reputable dealers. There are literally more fakes available than genuine items.

The Knights Cross of the iron Cross is a larger version and worn around the neck. This is then later supplemented by the oak leaves and the crossed swords and diamonds, for further acts of bravery. Expect to pay big bucks for this, especially if it has the award document as well.

Usually, people starting out go for the 2nd class Iron Cross and get a 1st Class later, then stop, because the price rises sharply for a Knights Cross.

Contrary to the popular idea, the Germans didn't have many awards. Certainly not as many as the British or Russians. But the Iron Cross is usually the starting out point for many people, because it is so widely known.

maryishere

StudentDad wrote: »

Of course we forget about De Valera sending notes of condolences to the German Reich on the death of Hitler.

It was the least poor old Dev could do out of respect for the hundreds of thousands of Irish people who volunteered to help the allies fight Nazism in one way or another. Shure they were not bad auld creatures Hitler and his pal Mussolini.

Wibbs

Jawgap wrote: »

I wonder which is my worst piece of militaria......

.......my Luftwaffe navigator's watch.

You have a B-Uhr? :eek: Nice. Sadly unwearable unless you're built like King Kong.

Palbear

FURET wrote: »

You find it offensive and inappropriate. Well so bloody what? "I find it quite offensive" has become one of the most sanctimonious and obnoxious combinations of words in language today.

To this pedantic contributor, the linguistic combination is not obnoxious but rather it is grammatically poor. Use of "quite" is superfluous. It is sufficient to simply say "offensive".

Staying on topic, I agree with the OP that selling this stuff is not appropriate, at least from a moral perspective. It should be in a museum, not a shop.

tim_holsters

Zebra3 wrote: »

Plenty of British army propaganda goes on inside British football stadiums.

My word, that is probably the stupidest sentence I've ever read on boards. Thick as fcuk, you've really got to wonder about some folk.

Nodin

Palbear wrote: »

To this pedantic contributor, the linguistic combination is not obnoxious but rather it is grammatically poor. Use of "quite" is superfluous. It is sufficient to simply say "offensive".

Staying on topic, I agree with the OP that selling this stuff is not appropriate, at least from a moral perspective. It should be in a museum, not a shop.

Yeah, we can institute a moral police to weed out deviancy from the nations retail outlets.

indioblack

maryishere wrote: »

It was the least poor old Dev could do out of respect for the hundreds of thousands of Irish people who volunteered to help the allies fight Nazism in one way or another. Shure they were not bad auld creatures Hitler and his pal Mussolini.

I often wonder if the condolences were passed on to Germany.
One could imagine a bemused telegraphist in Berlin saying to his colleagues, "The countries bombed to pieces, there are several Russian armies in the streets - and this guy from Ireland is saying he's sorry!"

maryishere

indioblack wrote: »

One could imagine a bemused telegraphist in Berlin saying to his colleagues, "The countries bombed to pieces, there are several Russian armies in the streets - and this guy from Ireland is saying he's sorry!"

Think Dev was expressing condolences on the death of Hitler, not on the German defeat.

indioblack

maryishere wrote: »

Think Dev was expressing condolences on the death of Hitler, not on the German defeat.

Yes - not the wisest thing to do. It should have been consigned to the trivia of history - but it's followed De Valera and his memory ever since.

Tony EH

Palbear wrote: »

To this pedantic contributor, the linguistic combination is not obnoxious but rather it is grammatically poor. Use of "quite" is superfluous. It is sufficient to simply say "offensive".

Staying on topic, I agree with the OP that selling this stuff is not appropriate, at least from a moral perspective. It should be in a museum, not a shop.

What "morals" ?

Means Of Escape

Wehrmacht ceremonial dagger and metal sheath value?

Palbear

Tony EH wrote: »

What "morals" ?

Mine.
The Nazis were murderers.
Maybe not all of them but certainly very many were.
Profiteering from selling their artefacts is not something I view favourably.

Nodin

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Wehrmacht ceremonial dagger and metal sheath value?

Depends on a rake of factors
http://quanonline.com/military/military_reference/german/blades/german_edge.html
If you can trace and prove the provenance of the item, it raises the value considerably.

padd b1975

Palbear wrote: »

Mine.
The Nazis were murderers.
Maybe not all of them but certainly very many were.
Profiteering from selling their artefacts is not something I view favourably.

Don't sell.

Don't buy.

Don't judge those that do.

Eugene Norman

indioblack wrote: »

Yes - not the wisest thing to do. It should have been consigned to the trivia of history - but it's followed De Valera and his memory ever since.

Yes. The loyalists and anti-Irish Irish tend to make hay about this act of stupid formality. The implication is Ireland was pro-Nazi of course.

Means Of Escape

Palbear wrote: »

Mine.
The Nazis were murderers.
Maybe not all of them but certainly very many were.
Profiteering from selling their artefacts is not something I view favourably.

Admire and value the craftsmanship of the weapon not the user .

indioblack

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Yes. The loyalists and anti-Irish Irish tend to make hay about this act of stupid formality. The implication is Ireland was pro-Nazi of course.

If someone wanted a stick to beat the Free State with, DeValera supplied it.
As I recall the story, Dr. Hempel was a friend of DeValera. He was the representative of the German state in Dublin. I'm sure Herr Hempel would've understood if DeValera had done nothing when Hitler died.
Protocol is often advanced an excuse - but, for obvious reasons, protocol could have been overlooked in this case.

droidman123

indioblack wrote: »

If someone wanted a stick to beat the Free State with, DeValera supplied it.
As I recall the story, Dr. Hempel was a friend of DeValera. He was the representative of the German state in Dublin. I'm sure Herr Hempel would've understood if DeValera had done nothing when Hitler died.
Protocol is often advanced an excuse - but, for obvious reasons, protocol could have been overlooked in this case.

You have to remember at that time though,that any enemy of britain was a friend of ireland

Eugene Norman

droidman123 wrote: »

You have to remember at that time though,that any enemy of britain was a friend of ireland

No that wasn't it. It was protocol. Ireland in fact helped the allies more than the axis.

I bet that western countries sent condolences when Stalin died. That's standard unless you are at a formally declared war.

steddyeddy

indioblack wrote: »

If someone wanted a stick to beat the Free State with, DeValera supplied it.
As I recall the story, Dr. Hempel was a friend of DeValera. He was the representative of the German state in Dublin. I'm sure Herr Hempel would've understood if DeValera had done nothing when Hitler died.
Protocol is often advanced an excuse - but, for obvious reasons, protocol could have been overlooked in this case.

Churchill was racist and anti Semitic therefore all of England is.

droidman123

Eugene Norman wrote: »

No that wasn't it. It was protocol. Ireland in fact helped the allies more than the axis.

I bet that western countries sent condolences when Stalin died. That's standard unless you are at a formally declared war.

I meant it as semi metaphorical.the point is those days were totally different in politics and socio situations.i doubt if any of the dictators in africa or elsewhere died in these days that a representation from any of the western countries would be made.

indioblack

droidman123 wrote: »

You have to remember at that time though,that any enemy of britain was a friend of Ireland

Understood. I think timing plays the main part in this story.
It could be argued that there was, effectively, no German state at this time - which is why I suggest protocol could have been overlooked.