Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

Mountainsandh

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

There’s no way either Bobby or Scott would know how to plant the blood evidence. Most people wouldn’t be able to do it, It’s not a straight forward thing to do. Zellner is blaming the cops for planting the blood in MaM, who next Averys mother?

Both are hunters and so are often "handling" blood (when dressing game : collecting it, mopping/wiping it off...they probably would know more about blood handling than you and I). She is not blaming the cops for the blood. She mentioned dilution and using a rag instead of the more sophisticated syringe or swab during the program (dilution fitted with the shape and looks of the drops iirc).

Tipsy McSwagger

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Both are hunters and so are often "handling" blood (when dressing game : collecting it, mopping/wiping it off...they probably would know more about blood handling than you and I). She is not blaming the cops for the blood. She mentioned dilution and using a rag instead of the more sophisticated syringe or swab during the program (dilution fitted with the shape and looks of the drops iirc).

Do hunters plant blood?

Uncharted

Drumpot wrote: »

She’s going hard after Other members of the family.

A documentary on their family Christmas dinner alone would be probably like a Jerry springer episode.....

The Avery family are a strange pack of individuals,that's for sure.

Weirdos.

Thepoet85

Tipsy McSwagger wrote:

There’s no way either Bobby or Scott would know how to plant the blood evidence. Most people wouldn’t be able to do it, It’s not a straight forward thing to do. Zellner is blaming the cops for planting the blood in MaM, who next Averys mother?

You could also argue that Steven and Brendan wouldn't have known how to clean up the supposed blood in the trailer and the garage.

This case constantly brings up more questions than answers. I'm not sure of their guilt nor innocence.

Tipsy McSwagger

Thepoet85 wrote: »

You could also argue that Steven and Brendan wouldn't have known how to clean up the supposed blood in the trailer and the garage.

This case constantly brings up more questions than answers. I'm not sure of their guilt nor innocence.

Well Brendan states they cleaned it with bleach, which was on the jeans he wore and entered into evidence in his trial. Planting blood is a whole different kettle of fish. Whatever happened to Avery’s taillight story?

Mountainsandh

Thepoet85 wrote: »

You could also argue that Steven and Brendan wouldn't have known how to clean up the supposed blood in the trailer and the garage.

This case constantly brings up more questions than answers. I'm not sure of their guilt nor innocence.

I think this is exactly where KZ wants people to be. Remember, she is looking to make a case for reasonable doubt.
She is not an investigator either, so the theories that she presents are just that, and they all have one purpose : establish reasonable doubt, present other potential criminals, so that a retrial is inevitable.

She says herself, she tries hard to find out who else could have done it, but ultimately, she doesn't have to.

She simply has to present enough evidence, or dismantle enough evidence to create doubt. I think she's got that, and more than enough.

She's smart though, and she knows that she also has to work on people :

a) Bobby and Scott, who, with everyday that passes without a disclaimer, are incriminating themselves a bit more. If they are innocent, surely at this stage they should come forward (lawyered up as suitable) and talk to her, give an affidavit of their version, or somewhat publicly (at least in some official manner) deny at least parts of what she is saying. Family members and other witnesses, who can surely feel the heat too. There could be one ready to crack.

b) Public opinion : as she stated, the more publicity, the more pressure, the best chance of having a case retrialed.

c) the DA and other officials who hold the reigns of the justice system. She is very subtly starting to present an opportunity for them to be the heroes everyone's been waiting for, to be the good guys who finally restored justice and stopped corruption in its tracks.
Who knows, there could be a cop about to crack too, there could be one weighing the for and against a disclosure at this point, to save their own back (to an extent) before the **** hits the fan.


Tipsy, re-your earlier comment, I can't reply for the piece of straw stuck in my eye.









I think if KZ gets the results she expects from a forensic examination of Bobby's garage (Teresa's blood or DNA), and if she has a definite proof that the replaced battery came from a recent cops car (so it can't be argued that it was a cops car bought by the ASY for parts), these will give a more definite credibility to her theories, which is bound to help. (we probably won't be told that until MaM3 though, or a retrial )

Sunflower 27

I watched both series. I think Brendan is involved but not with regards to Steven, but with Bobby and Scott. Not necessarily involved in the killing, but the covering up.

In the phone call to his mum, he admits to being involved in "some of it" but is adamant he doesn't want to see Steven. Maybe he's afraid of steven, but maybe he can't face the fact he has fingered an innocent man.

I think Brendan took the rap for his brother. Has he ever said he knows Steven didn't do it?

Brendan almost got off in series 2 without implicating his brother. I think he is holding out for his release without naming anyone.

It is quite obvious to me in the phone call between SA and Barb and the raving Scott that Steven is innocent.

That Stevens own family admit now Teresa left that day and said on stand she didn't... It's just so obvious Steven was framed.

I hope he is out soon. I'm not convinced Brendan knows nothing at all.

I also think it's guilt that Bobby doesn't visit his brother. Brendan is in there for his brother. Maybe he felt he wasn't as important to anyone or his mum as Bobby so was ok to take the blame.

Really want to see how this all unfolds....

the whole year inn

How are they allowed to analyse bobby garage and surely at this stage there is nothing left?

Sunflower 27

the whole year inn wrote: »

How are they allowed to analyse bobby garage and surely at this stage there is nothing left?

I think if there was blood there that it can still be detected. DNA as well. A man was convicted near where I live for a murder committed nearly 30 years ago when DNA was found on items that had been kept from the scene as evidence.

There is so much pointing to Teresa leaving the salvage yard now. It makes it very unlikely she died the way Brendan said she did. I know it seemed unlikely in the first place (no blood/DNA) but this seems to confirm further she didn't die at the hands of Avery.

Mountainsandh

the whole year inn wrote: »

How are they allowed to analyse bobby garage and surely at this stage there is nothing left?

Mountainsandh

While I'm at screenshots, the one above is a smoking gun I think. Likely we won't be told anymore until that's appropriately dealt with in the courts, but I'd love some leak in the meantime.

Maybe if still doesn't get the reaction she's looking for with the Q&A (namely, someone in LE speaking to her), she'll push further with this.

Sunflower 27

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I'm off today so going to watch some of series 1 again in light of the new information. That will be interesting.

Something that always seemed odd to me: Bobby and Scott were very quick to point the finger at Steven and lie even though in doing so they were also implicating Brendan. What would possess a brother and a man sleeping with Brendan's mother to do that.? I can't think of anything unless they were protecting themselves.

Sunflower 27

Mountainsandh wrote: »

While I'm at screenshots, the one above is a smoking gun I think. Likely we won't be told anymore until that's appropriately dealt with in the courts, but I'd love some leak in the meantime.

Maybe if still doesn't get the reaction she's looking for with the Q&A (namely, someone in LE speaking to her), she'll push further with this.

Is the consensus that colburn moved it after the witness told him in the shop it was there?

I thought it odd the rav4 was left where the general public could see it. Maybe that is where it broke down and was an unfortunate event the killers weren't exoecting. Isn't that outside the property Scott ended up buying?

Mountainsandh

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I'm off today so going to watch some of series 1 again in light of the new information. That will be interesting.

Something that always seemed odd to me: Bobby and Scott were very quick to point the finger at Steven and lie even though in doing so they were also implicating Brendan. What would possess a brother and a man sleeping with Brendan's mother to do that.? I can't think of anything unless they were protecting themselves.

I started rewatching series 2 myself, but never followed up. It's hard to find the time.

I agree re-Bobby and Scott.

Of note is that Bobby does not visit Brendan in prison, for all the excuses given in the series by Barb and Scott ("it's too hard for him... he's got his own kids now...").

Poor Brendan really pulled the short straw in life, and imo, he's just not clever enough to understand the wider picture of what's happened to him.

It's a tragic and sobering thought that when he does get out of jail, he's more likely to join the dots. How horrible to realize that your own Mum and brother left you rot in jail for so long just to save their own asses.

Blaine and Bryan then are also likely to feel terrible about it all, but at least they seem to be talking to Zellner in the background, now that they're older.


When I was watching MaM, I kind of liked Barb. Now I look at what she's doing to her own family and I think "how could you ?".

Drumpot

Totally random question but how we’re all conversations recorded?

I mean I understand how or why they were recorded when the documentary was being made but there’s much earlier recordings of even when Brendan was first arrested and talking with Barb about the interview.... Who recorded that?

Mountainsandh

I'm off too by the way, so here's a bit of info to share for people who might not follow all this on Twitter and Facebook : people are starting to mention this case of missing person from 2006 : Deidre Harm went missing, a guy got caught for that but he committed suicide in prison, all in WI.
There might be nothing in it but the portrait and tattoo are food for thought.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=466197&d=1542358557

Sunflower 27

Drumpot wrote: »

Totally random question but how we’re all conversations recorded?

I mean I understand how or why they were recorded when the documentary was being made but there’s much earlier recordings of even when Brendan was first arrested and talking with Barb about the interview.... Who recorded that?

The calls between inmates and general public can be recorded at any time. I think it's different between prisoners and their legal teams.

Steven is aware of this as he says at one point to Barb, "do you really want me to say that on here?" and she shuts up.

Scott knows it's being taped as well. He seems to be finger pointing over and over, which isn't needed if no one else is going to hear the phone call. He could just tell him to f*ck off.

He also says Steven has ruined his life. Yes, he has by getting this documentary made. If it wasn't made Scott would be a no one. Scott knows Steven is innocent, he's just furious st Steven for fighting to get out of prison. He wanted him to be convicted and just rot there.

I laughed at the amount of times Steven said "well" as a response in that phone call.

I'm not sure what to make of Barb. I pitied her in season 1, but she is lying big time. She admits in that phone call Theresa left the property (how does she know? Which son told her?) , she also blatantly lied about the internet. And she was very quiet when Steven said he had read the transcript of the series and she had not helped him. If she knew Teresa left, why not support her brother (unless she was saving a son).

She wants Brendan out, but only if it means Steven stays in and Bobby/Scott are free. Not a nice woman in my opinion.

Tipsy McSwagger

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I started rewatching series 2 myself, but never followed up. It's hard to find the time.

I agree re-Bobby and Scott.

Of note is that Bobby does not visit Brendan in prison, for all the excuses given in the series by Barb and Scott ("it's too hard for him... he's got his own kids now...").

Poor Brendan really pulled the short straw in life, and imo, he's just not clever enough to understand the wider picture of what's happened to him.

It's a tragic and sobering thought that when he does get out of jail, he's more likely to join the dots. How horrible to realize that your own Mum and brother left you rot in jail for so long just to save their own asses.

Blaine and Bryan then are also likely to feel terrible about it all, but at least they seem to be talking to Zellner in the background, now that they're older.


When I was watching MaM, I kind of liked Barb. Now I look at what she's doing to her own family and I think "how could you ?".

Poor Brendan confessed to his mother and on the stand that he was complicit in the crime. Oh wait he was following a ‘narrative’ planted by those nasty cops, that he could not deviate from outside an interrogation room, hilarious. This slow (not mentally retarded) teenager (not child) was actually the most decent person out of the lot of them, who went to school and looked after his younger brother. He was sexually abused by Steven Avery (one of many) but still idolized him. Avery is a scumbag who not only murdered TA but also ruined his nephews life.

Sunflower 27

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I'm off too by the way, so here's a bit of info to share for people who might not follow all this on Twitter and Facebook : people are starting to mention this case of missing person from 2006 : Deidre Harm went missing, a guy got caught for that but he committed suicide in prison, all in WI.
There might be nothing in it but the portrait and tattoo are food for thought.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=466197&d=1542358557

When did Bobby get that tattoo ? I don't see it on his arm in the 2007 trial. Unless he covered it somehow to make him look more straight and innocent.

If he didn't have it in 2007, he didn't have it in 2006 so he really isn't a suspect.

Mountainsandh

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Poor Brendan confessed to his mother and on the stand that he was complicit in the crime. Oh wait he was following a ‘narrative’ planted by those nasty cops, that he could not deviate from outside an interrogation room, hilarious. This slow (not mentally retarded) teenager (not child) was actually the most decent person out of the lot of them, who went to school and looked after his younger brother. He was sexually abused by Steven Avery (one of many) but still idolized him. Avery is a scumbag who not only murdered TA but also ruined his nephews life.

A teenager is a child.
slow = mentally retarded.
Nasty cops : yes.

Mountainsandh

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

When did Bobby get that tattoo ? I don't see it on his arm in the 2007 trial. Unless he covered it somehow to make him look more straight and innocent.

If he didn't have it in 2007, he didn't have it in 2006 so he really isn't a suspect.

Good point, trying to look at pics now

It's pretty high up so one of the polo shirts is definitely low enough that you wouldn't see it, but checking for other outfits.

edit: found this, he has the cast, is the cast from around trial time, think I saw him with it ?
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sMOhHmkfJB4/W28wEa5pefI/AAAAAAAAI_8/_jpTPdMzDS8a01Z6Pfm7MkSgiSaww4-kgCLcBGAs/s1600/Bobby%2BDassey%2Btatoo.png

Uncharted

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Unless he covered it somehow to make him look more straight and innocent.

............because all tattooed people are guilty criminals ??? Really? Ffs!!

I hope you don't end up on jury duty :rolleyes:

Sunflower 27

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Good point, trying to look at pics now

It's pretty high up so one of the polo shirts is definitely low enough that you wouldn't see it, but checking for other outfits.

I googled his name and tattoo. I don't think he had it in 2007.

Still, has no bearing on the TH case.

I was thinking about Bobby saying he saw Teresa as he got out of the shower. People have said you don't shower before a hunt, but I also think he said he was just out of the shower as it means he wouldn't have been able to follow TH out of the salvage yard as he'd need time to get changed - by which time she'd be long gone.

Sunflower 27

Uncharted wrote: »

............because all tattooed people are guilty criminals ??? Really? Ffs!!

I hope you don't end up on jury duty :rolleyes:

Calm down. I'm not saying that at all. Just that he would want to look as straight laced as possible.

Sunflower 27

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Good point, trying to look at pics now

It's pretty high up so one of the polo shirts is definitely low enough that you wouldn't see it, but checking for other outfits.

edit: found this, he has the cast, is the cast from around trial time, think I saw him with it ?
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sMOhHmkfJB4/W28wEa5pefI/AAAAAAAAI_8/_jpTPdMzDS8a01Z6Pfm7MkSgiSaww4-kgCLcBGAs/s1600/Bobby%2BDassey%2Btatoo.png

I saw that pic, the tattoo is quite low down the arm and I think would have been visible with the polo shirt he wore at trial, which has shortish sleeves.

Mountainsandh

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I saw that pic, the tattoo is quite low down the arm and I think would have been visible with the polo shirt he wore at trial, which has shortish sleeves.

Yeah, not sure.
Maybe Brad Dassey'd be able to help with that, he's on the group I follow on Facebook, but he's in Facebook prison until Sunday as he posted screenshots of Barb's text messages to his phone, and her phone number was up on them !

Either way Zellner knows about these missing girls' cases so if there was anything to it she's sure to be on it. She did mention "serial killer" in one of her Tweets, so it caught peoples' eyes, but she could have been talking in general.

Scotty #

Uncharted wrote: »

The Avery family are a strange pack of individuals,that's for sure.

Weirdos.

Not at all. They're your pretty stereotypical rural white americans. Low income, low education, shoot anything that moves, dabble in a bit of petty crime. They're not unusual by any means.

Scotty #

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Zellner is blaming the cops for planting the blood in MaM, who next Averys mother?

Zellner said yesterday it can't have been the cops who transferred the blood. It had to have been someone who knew it was SA's blood and the cops would not have know that.

Tipsy McSwagger

Scotty # wrote: »

Zellner said yesterday it can't have been the cops who transferred the blood. It had to have been someone who knew it was SA's blood and the cops would not have know that.

Avery claims the blood was taken 4 days after TA went missing, his taillight story. Zellner takes this as fact and does a reconstruction in MaM blaming the cops. She’s changing her tune now to fit her narrative. There’s no way those 2 yokels would know how to plant blood evidence.

Mountainsandh

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Avery claims the blood was taken 4 days after TA went missing, his taillight story. Zellner takes this as fact and does a reconstruction in MaM blaming the cops. She’s changing her tune now to fit her narrative. There’s no way those 2 yokels would know how to plant blood evidence.

SHE'S CHANGING HER TUNE TO FIT HER NARRATIVE ?

Well duh ! Of course she is.

She is considering every and all possibility in this case, and attempting to find evidence for any and every theory.

Of course, she's going to uphold and then discard some scenarios.

I can't believe you'd even use that as a bloody argument Tipsy, cop on now really.


Zellner's new theory, now that she has discarded the previous one (ffs), is that the killer only would have known that Steven's wound had reopened, and that the killer only would have had access to Steven's trailer when needed.

So it has to have been either Scott or Bobby, according to her, who collected the blood. That person would have been in a state of panic after the police visited the same day.

It doesn't really take a genius to figure that any bit of blood, be it diluted or not, would lead to someone in particular. It doesn't take a genius to wipe the blood with a piece of cloth, wet it a bit, and wring it over the spots you want to contaminate. (of course it would help if you were used to butchering deers and dealing with the blood)