Number26/N26 Mastercard/Account now for Irish Residents

Jim2007

jeffk wrote: »

Well they won't accept n26 iban and card (the latter I think more panda end)

So by and large it's relevant to this thread

Wouldn't like to move bank and then find out can't get my bins collected

Very true. It seems we are moving to a time where every provider does not offer the same basic services. Free always comes at a price and it makes sense to check that the services you need are available before you jump.

The J Stands for Jay

Jim2007 wrote: »

Very true. It seems we are moving to a time where every provider does not offer the same basic services. Free always comes at a price and it makes sense to check that the services you need are available before you jump.

But there are areas where there is no choice, it's Panda or nothing. There needs to be an effective legal remedy for this type of behaviour.

Bob24

McGaggs wrote: »

But there are areas where there is no choice, it's Panda or nothing. There needs to be an effective legal remedy for this type of behaviour.

Exactly, and I would say the fact that Panda has captive customers is the reason why they feel it is OK to do this (the fact that a useless regulator is allowing them to remain in breach of SEPA regulation also helps …).

No mistake should be made here: N26 is indeed providing the basic service (DD facility which is accessible for any EZ payee via SEPA) and it is Panda which is refusing to leverage that service for whatever reason (and in breach with SEPA regulation).

Of course at the end of the day the issue still is with the consumer who can't pay for something they need and for which there is no alternative provider, because the provider is illegally refusing their payment method and the regulator is doing nothing about it. So from a practical perspective this makes it a drawback to have an N26 account. But it should be clear that the culprits here are Panda and the regulator, not the consumer and N26.

blade1

Has something changed with either n26 or bank of Ireland?

My wages are in my BOI account every Thursday morning.
I then transfer it to my n26 account.
It has always been Friday morning before they show up in my n26 account.
Turned up today (same day) in my n26 for the first time ever.

Del Griffith

blade1 wrote: »

Has something changed with either n26 or bank of Ireland?

My wages are in my BOI account every Thursday morning.
I then transfer it to my n26 account.
It has always been Friday morning before they show up in my n26 account.
Turned up today (same day) in my n26 for the first time ever.

BOI must now have instant SEPA

blade1

Del Griffith wrote: »

BOI must now have instant SEPA

Transferred at 8am and arrived around 2pm.
I'll settle for that.

Yggr of Asgard

Del Griffith wrote: »

BOI must now have instant SEPA

Nope, the only providers in Ireland who do SEPA Instant continue to be

Barclays
Prepaid Financial Services

And in June SumUp will join.

What they however might have done is increased the number of times they settle with the European Clearing House.

blade1

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

What they however might have done is increased the number of times they settle with the European Clearing House.

I have no idea what this means but it sounds like you know what you are talking about so I say thank you!

user1842

blade1 wrote: »

I have no idea what this means but it sounds like you know what you are talking about so I say thank you!

https://www.ebaclearing.eu/services/step2-sct/settlement-and-processing-cycles/

If you want some light reading

5 payment cycles a day and two optional night time cycles. Banks can send on any cycle or on all of them. But they have to be able to receive on all cycles.

Sheep Shagger

Its mad thst sumup will get instant SEPA before BOI lol.

Bob24

Del Griffith wrote: »

BOI must now have instant SEPA

Having used SEPA instant, it does what is says on the tin and the money indeed hits the recipient’s account almost immediately (i.e. it is not just same day, it literally is almost instant).

None of our main retail banks are supporting it though and unfortunately I doubt it is coming anytime soon (which is REALLY stupid on their part if you ask me as they are effectively pushing people to Revolut as a replacement for instant cash exchange between individuals, while there is an infrastructure already in place which would let them offer the same service relatively easily).

user1842

Bob24 wrote: »

Having used SEPA instant, it does what is says on the tin and the money indeed hits the recipient’s account almost immediately (i.e. it is not just same day, it literally is almost instant).

None of our main retail banks are supporting it though and unfortunately I doubt it is coming anytime soon (which is REALLY stupid on their part if you ask me as they are effectively pushing people to Revolut as a replacement for instant cash exchange between individuals, while there is an infrastructure already in place which would let them offer the same service relatively easily).

It is sad to think that Irish retail banks will be one of the last banks in the euro area to offer SCT Inst (SEPA instant) and they will probably not do it willingly (i.e. will need to be forced by EU legislation, if that comes).

Lack of competition = poor customer solutions

Spocker

user1842 wrote: »

It is sad to think that Irish retail banks will be one of the last banks in the euro area to offer SCT Inst (SEPA instant) and they will probably not do it willingly (i.e. will need to be forced by EU legislation, if that comes).

Lack of competition = poor customer solutions

Even the Central Bank are showing a bit of frustration on this too https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/move-forward-on-instant-payments-central-bank-tells-banks-1.4550384

Bob24

user1842 wrote: »

It is sad to think that Irish retail banks will be one of the last banks in the euro area to offer SCT Inst (SEPA instant) and they will probably not do it willingly (i.e. will need to be forced by EU legislation, if that comes).

Lack of competition = poor customer solutions

Yeah and IMO the crazy thing is that it would actually be in their interest to do it (to fight Revolut) and rather easy (someone else has built the infrastructure for them and all they have to do is plug into it).

Goes to show how hopeless and useless they are.

Jim2007

user1842 wrote: »

It is sad to think that Irish retail banks will be one of the last banks in the euro area to offer SCT Inst (SEPA instant) and they will probably not do it willingly (i.e. will need to be forced by EU legislation, if that comes).

Lack of competition = poor customer solutions

At this point we've seen two banks exit the Irish market because of the competition and we're seeing the same across Europe and at this point competition is not to the benefit of the customer. If it continues, we'll reach a point where there will be only one monopoly bank left. Sometimes more is not better, it's just more.



In my opinion we need intervention - regulated minimum prices etc.. same as had to be done in the past in the food sector, otherwise this race to the bottom will continue until we get to the point where there are only a few banks left who can control the market and that will definitely not be in the consumers interest.

user1842

Jim2007 wrote: »

At this point we've seen two banks exit the Irish market because of the competition

I would agree partially but I believe it was government intervention not competition that made these banks leave. Of course the government had to intervene for social cohesion reasons. But if a bank needs massive capital requirements and also cannot facilitate repossessions then I don't think they will stay in the market.

Anyway a discussion for another thread

I'm pro regulation BTW.

I hope Revolut, N26 keep making inroads as this will force the Irish banks to adapt. I also hope Starling bank opens in Ireland.

Bob24

user1842 wrote: »

I hope Revolut, N26 keep making inroads as this will force the Irish banks to adapt. I also hope Starling bank opens in Ireland.

The problem for the likes of N26 and Revolut is that without physical presence here and more regulatory involvement, the range of services they can offer is much more limited (i.e. for example there is not a hope they would offer mortgages anytime soon, and of course they can't offer things like cash or check lodgements).

AlmightyCushion

Bob24 wrote: »

The problem for the likes of N26 and Revolut is that without physical presence here and more regulatory involvement, the range of services they can offer is much more limited (i.e. for example there is not a hope they would offer mortgages anytime soon, and of course they can't offer things like cash or check lodgements).

I doubt they really care about cheque lodgements. Pretty much the same for cash lodgements. If there was a way they could offer it without having to set up a branch network, they might consider it but otherwise I would say they are happy to not offer either service.

Bob24

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I doubt they really care about cheque lodgements. Pretty much the same for cash lodgements. If there was a way they could offer it without having to set up a branch network, they might consider it but otherwise I would say they are happy to not offer either service.

Sure I don't think they believe it is worth their while.

But that was my point: there are a number of banking services (either complex/risky services or services requiring a physical network) which there is no way they will be offering in the near future. And thus they can't be full challengers for legacy banks (which will still feel they have a protected turf).

In other European countries there are online banks which are actually offering full banking services and more and thus actually challenging legacy banks in every aspect: mortgages, credit cards, savings accounts, stock trading, deposits of cash and checks through agreements with a network of shops, etc.

Cabaal

Bob24 wrote: »

In other European countries there are online banks which are actually offering full banking services and more and thus actually challenging legacy banks in every aspect: mortgages, credit cards, savings accounts, stock trading, deposits of cash and checks through agreements with a network of shops, etc.

In all honesty, cheque's need to be phased out.
They are much more awkward then they are worth at this stage.

It's generally of a certain age that still want to depend on them or company's that refuse to update their systems to just do bank transfers.

Bob24

Cabaal wrote: »

In all honesty, cheque's need to be phased out.
They are much more awkward then they are worth at this stage.

It's generally of a certain age that still want to depend on them or company's that refuse to update their systems to just do bank transfers.

Fully agree, but:
1) this is just one service amongst the many others I listed which is holding back challenger banks.
2) in practice, it might still happen that you receive a check from a company or public body and if your bank can't lodge it for you, at the end of the day you the bank's customer are the one with a problem and having to spend time to try and resolve it. And regardless what we think of them, until such time that checks are officially and completely phased out in Ireland as a means of payment, no supporting checks lodgement means not offering a full range of banking services.

Yyhhuuu

I agree that cheques should be long-gone. This is the first time I have seen a cheque referred to as a "check". I think this term is only used in the United States?

Could I ask how do N26 finance their operations. Is it through the premium accounts they charge for or do they offer lending in their parent country I.e Germany?

Bob24

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Could I ask how do N26 finance their operations. Is it through the premium accounts they charge for or do they offer lending in their parent country I.e Germany?

They are doing small loans in Germany, and also they are getting commissions to act as a broker for other banking/insurance products.

And while I haven’t seen communication on it, I am pretty sure they are monetising transactions data to make money with free accounts (probably at an aggregated level rather than individually). The good old “if it is free you are the product” type of situation.

moleyv

They offer overdrafts in Germany and Austria also

The J Stands for Jay

Bob24 wrote: »

Yeah and IMO the crazy thing is that it would actually be in their interest to do it (to fight Revolut) and rather easy (someone else has built the infrastructure for them and all they have to do is plug into it).

Goes to show how hopeless and useless they are.

It's shocking that when coming up against a fintech offering instant transfers between users, they ignore the SEPA infrastructure and set up a JV to build their own. Laser cards made sense before Visa/MC debit, but has now disappeared as it's became of very limited use to consumers. There proposed payments solution is if limited use before it's even begun development.

Rock Paper Scissors

Have been with N26 for a number of years.

The only thing that drives me mad is that you can't view or cancel direct debits within the app.

The cancel a direct debit, you need to find out the creditor ID, fill in a form and email it to N26

I just dont get why they make you do this

user1842

Rock Paper Scissors wrote: »

Have been with N26 for a number of years.

The only thing that drives me mad is that you can't view or cancel direct debits within the app.

The cancel a direct debit, you need to find out the creditor ID, fill in a form and email it to N26

I just dont get why they make you do this

Fully agree with this and it is super strange as Germany is very much a direct debit country. I would think that this function would be added at some stage.

It is possible that they don't want to make direct debits super convenient as they do not make money from them. For every card payment they make 0.2%.

AlmightyCushion

Bob24 wrote: »

Fully agree, but:
1) this is just one service amongst the many others I listed which is holding back challenger banks.
2) in practice, it might still happen that you receive a check from a company or public body and if your bank can't lodge it for you, at the end of the day you the bank's customer are the one with a problem and having to spend time to try and resolve it. And regardless what we think of them, until such time that checks are officially and completely phased out in Ireland as a means of payment, no supporting checks lodgement means not offering a full range of banking services.

But most people don't care about these services. I'm with KBC and they don't offer cash services. I knew that before joining but I didn't care. Same with cheques. If legacy backs think they are safe because the new banks don't offer cheque and cash services then they are very very wrong. They will lose the people who don't need these services and value a usable app and quick transfers over them. I was on a stag a few years ago and all but one person on the stag was using Revolut. It was used for everything. A few people were paying for meals and everyone else would Revolut them their share of it.

Bob24

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If legacy backs think they are safe because the new banks don't offer cheque and cash services then they are very very wrong.

As I as also mentioning, “new banks” on the Irish market are also missing mortgages, mostly missing consumer loans, mostly missing credit cards, have a very limited offering of insurance products, and are mostly lacking savings accounts*.

Of course anyone can take some of those services in isolation and say they don’t care about them, but my point is that if someone wants a one-stop shop for banking services, fintechs and online banks are still very far from it in Ireland (but again I wouldn’t say the same in every country). And almost anyone will need one of those services at some point and thus will have to consider dealing with an Irish bank.

Don’t get me wrong I am not trying to defend Irish banks, I don’t like them either.

But the reality is that there are still many banking services on which they have an oligopoly. Clearly if they are resting on their laurels they will eventually fall behind, but as of now I think their main cash generating services remain mostly unchallenged by neobanks.


* yes, agree interest rates are rubbish :-)

Yyhhuuu

Rock Paper Scissors wrote: »

Have been with N26 for a number of years.

The only thing that drives me mad is that you can't view or cancel direct debits within the app.

The cancel a direct debit, you need to find out the creditor ID, fill in a form and email it to N26

I just dont get why they make you do this

Does it take N26 long to cancel Direct Debits once cancellation form is e mailed to them ? Thanks for letting me know of this surprising issue.