Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

mickmackey1

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Even Wexford managed to beat Cork.

Only after Cork had beaten Dublin to be fair.

Whiplash85

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Only after Cork had beaten Dublin to be fair.

With numerical advantage for most of the game in Pairc Ui Rinn.

Powerhouse

unrealtime wrote: »

I think we are missing the important fact which is that Munster hurling is so poor and Tipp generally have a cakewalk there.

QUOTE]

You could make that argument and find some evidence to back it up. Then again, you could point to the Clare-Kilkenny 2016 league semi-final which Kilkenny lost badly, the 2013 All-Ireland quarter-final Kilkenny v Cork which Kilkenny lost, the 2014 semi-final Kilkenny v Limerick which Kilkenny earned and won by just two points & and the Kilkenny-Waterford semi-final which Kilkenny earned and won by just two points after a replay which might make Kilkenny think twice about dismissing Munster hurling totally. All games are 'easy' until you have to win them.

v3ttel

Was anybody here at the homecoming? I've heard that Cody said something along the lines of, people think we've no U21s or minors, but there are players coming through that are every bit as good as the ones we've had previously. If he said that, we will hopefully see a lot more of John Walsh, James Maher, Ger Alyward, Luke Scanlon, Richie Leahy, etc. We just need our young lads to stop getting so many long term injuries.

Powerhouse wrote: »

You could make that argument and find some evidence to back it up. Then again, you could point to the Clare-Kilkenny 2016 league semi-final which Kilkenny lost badly, the 2013 All-Ireland quarter-final Kilkenny v Cork which Kilkenny lost, the 2014 semi-final Kilkenny v Limerick which Kilkenny earned and won by just two points & and the Kilkenny-Waterford semi-final which Kilkenny earned and won by just two points after a replay which might make Kilkenny think twice about dismissing Munster hurling totally. All games are 'easy' until you have to win them.

I don't agree that Munster hurling is poor. There are 2 excellent teams (Tipp, Waterford), one good team (Clare), and 2 weaker counties (Cork, Limerick). In Leinster we have a similar level of teams. 2 excellent team (Kilkenny, Galway on their day), one good team (Dublin) and two weaker counties (Wexford, Offaly). I think the point is that there is a lot of willy waving over the strength of Munster hurling, which makes people go to the opposite extreme. I think the Munster title has lost its sheen a bit, as have all the provisional titles in both codes.

Of the games you mentioned, some of them don't really back up your point at all. In 2013, Kilkenny played Cork with 14 men for the majority of the game and had quite a few very poor referring decisions, including the sending off that was later rescinded as it was totally ridiculous.

The 2015 semi final vs Limerick was played in torrential conditions, the important thing was not to get caught on the day. The closeness of the score is irrelevant on a day like that.

unrealtime

Waterford are rubbish not one title in over 50 years

Cornerback1

Whiplash85 wrote: »

You cannot throw out the baby with the bath water when it comes to making changes in the team for next year. Holden has an all star at full back you have to remember. Murphy is one of the best corner backs in the country but was well beaten as well as was Prendergast. With Vast open swathes of space and quality ball raining in on you you dont have much hope. I would be looking at the differential in tackle count and why were Tipp players were able to pick out cross field balls with very little pressure exerted. Also I dont condone this type of play but sometimes you have to be cynical when a player gets inside you and gets a run on goal. I think if Noel Hickey was playing and he dropped his hurley like Paul Murphy did last sunday I dont think he would have tried to pick it up. I think he would have taken a yellow and pulled the jersey. That was a pivotal moment.

Also the physcology behind the Waterford semi final was huge. Kilkenny were buoyed by a stirring comeback win against Gawlay in Leinster Final. Waterford came into it with a huge point to prove after their annihilation v's Tipp. Kilkenny expended too much energy getting over Waterford in their semi final.

Plus the extra weeks rest would have be good also.

Powerhouse

v3ttel wrote: »

I think the point is that there is a lot of willy waving over the strength of Munster hurling,

Of the games you mentioned, some of them don't really back up your point at all.

I'm not sure there's too much willy waving about the strength of hurling in Limerick and Cork. The latter are in full crisis mode are they not?

The games back up my point alright, it's whether one accepts your excuses for not winning by more. I'd have thought, for example, that the weather was the same for both teams in the Kilkenny-Limerick semi-final. And in the Cork-Kilkenny quarter-final Cork were 0-11 to 0-6 when Shefflin was sent off. They were already struggling and likely would have lost anyway.

Powerhouse

unrealtime wrote: »

Waterford are rubbish not one title in over 50 years

I don't get this. What has the standard of the 1972 or 1986 Waterford teams (who are part of that 50 years' run) got to do with the standard of the current Waterford team?

Topcat32

Powerhouse wrote: »

unrealtime wrote: »

I think we are missing the important fact which is that Munster hurling is so poor and Tipp generally have a cakewalk there.

QUOTE]

You could make that argument and find some evidence to back it up. Then again, you could point to the Clare-Kilkenny 2016 league semi-final which Kilkenny lost badly, the 2013 All-Ireland quarter-final Kilkenny v Cork which Kilkenny lost, the 2014 semi-final Kilkenny v Limerick which Kilkenny earned and won by just two points & and the Kilkenny-Waterford semi-final which Kilkenny earned and won by just two points after a replay which might make Kilkenny think twice about dismissing Munster hurling totally. All games are 'easy' until you have to win them.

You could make the arguement that Munster hurling is poor, not because there are poor teams in it but that some of the Counties havent been overly concerned if they didn't win it. This is the first time since 2005 that the munster champions won the All Ireland, and in 2010, 2013 and even 2004 you could argue that being beaten in the munster championship actually helped the winning all ireland. The main reason that the Munster championship isnt what it used to be is the back door system and the feeling that you wont play Kilkenny or the best Munster team in a knockout match until the All Ireland semi final, which is a point when you would expect to play a strong team anyway

Hawkeye6

Very disappointing to see that the Intermediate Football Semi Finals have been fixed for Sunday on the Kilkeny GAA website, a day when two Kilkenny Camogie teams bid for All-Ireland glory. Ant insult to both codes and hopefully common sense will prevail before Sunday. The clubs involved have several players involved in the Camogie Finals. There should be no excuses not to support the girls on Sunday.

wingbacknr5

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Very disappointing to see that the Intermediate Football Semi Finals have been fixed for Sunday on the Kilkeny GAA website, a day when two Kilkenny Camogie teams bid for All-Ireland glory. Ant insult to both codes and hopefully common sense will prevail before Sunday. The clubs involved have several players involved in the Camogie Finals. There should be no excuses not to support the girls on Sunday.

Agreed, the fixtures page on the Kilkenny GAA website doesn't even list the 2 camogie finals. I know camogie isn't officially part of the GAA but still.

The homepage does have a brief write up on it in fairness.

JJs Left Hand

The football matches are at 11.00 in the morning... What's the problem?

And Kilkenny Camogie is a different association and they have their own website.. Again, what's the problem?

Realt Dearg Sec

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

The football matches are at 11.00 in the morning... What's the problem?

And Kilkenny Camogie is a different association and they have their own website.. Again, what's the problem?

I think organising schedules should be left in the hands of posters on internet forums, they always seem to know exactly how it should have been done.

mullinr2

When was the last time a Kilkenny player won Young Hurler of the year?

dirkmeister

My first guess was Noel Hickey but I checked it up and according to Wikipedia it was Cha in 2006.

Realt Dearg Sec

dirkmeister wrote: »

My first guess was Noel Hickey but I checked it up and according to Wikipedia it was Cha in 2006.

That's an amazing statistic considering our domination of the game during the intervening decade.

mullinr2

It goes to show that Cody didn't have to throw on these young players in the past. Imagine TJ and Richie Hogan never got young hurler of the year. My god!! He'll have to change that. We will not win the All Ireland next year wi the same squad.

Topcat32

Ryan Tubridy on the Late Late going on about how it could be seen as justice that kilkenny lost last week, its comments from very unlikely sources like that that make you realise how much Kilkenny have dominated and got in peoples heads over the last 10 to 15 years.

To be fair Marty gave a very fair and gracious response to a very stupid and populist question.

Realt Dearg Sec

Topcat32 wrote: »

Ryan Tubridy on the Late Late going on about how it could be seen as justice that kilkenny lost last week, its comments from very unlikely sources like that that make you realise how much Kilkenny have dominated and got in peoples heads over the last 10 to 15 years.

To be fair Marty gave a very fair and gracious response to a very stupid and populist question.

Ryan tubridy is at his most embarrassing when he discusses sports. And that's ****ing saying something. He hasn't a clue and has less interest, clearly thinks sport is beneath him. But he does this awful impersonation of an interviewer who gives a ****e and shares his audience's enthusiasm. It's tubridy at his most inauthentic and condescending.

I remember once when he interviewed Cody and he asked him at least three times how he decides whether to stay on for another year, each time asking "so do you take a walk and then decide?". I wanted to crumple up and die of embarrassment. I think Declan kidney had said the week before that he took a walk and decided to stay on in some role and in tubs's weird world this became "what managers do" and was a short cut to seeming knowledgeable and insightful without having to actually know anything about any particular sport or a figure like Cody in particular.

He is the worst kind of fool: the one who thinks he's the smartest in the room.

Topcat32

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ryan tubridy is at his most embarrassing when he discusses sports. And that's ****ing saying something. He hasn't a clue and has less interest, clearly thinks sport is beneath him. But he does this awful impersonation of an interviewer who gives a ****e and shares his audience's enthusiasm. It's tubridy at his most inauthentic and condescending.

I remember once when he interviewed Cody and he asked him at least three times how he decides whether to stay on for another year, each time asking "so do you take a walk and then decide?". I wanted to crumple up and die of embarrassment. I think Declan kidney had said the week before that he took a walk and decided to stay on in some role and in tubs's weird world this became "what managers do" and was a short cut to seeming knowledgeable and insightful without having to actually know anything about any particular sport or a figure like Cody in particular.

He is the worst kind of fool: the one who thinks he's the smartest in the room.

Very true, at least Pat Kenny was a Kilkenny supporter, good Kilkenny woman behind him!!

68deville

Will be interesting next year to see what Cody pulls out of the bag,he needs
4/5 of the freshmans ta hit the ground running and same number to be additions
To the panel to be gunning for positions or at least relevant options anyway

tbiggertycome

68deville wrote: »

Will be interesting next year to see what Cody pulls out of the bag,he needs
4/5 of the freshmans ta hit the ground running and same number to be additions
To the panel to be gunning for positions or at least relevant options anyway

The talent is there no doubt about that with a good lash of them being in with the panel for at least one year, most two and some even three.
What we can call on next year that we didn't have this either injured or not ready.
Forwards: Get Aylward, James Maher, Chris Bolger, John Walsh, Billy Ryan, Sean Morrissey, Kevin Kenny.
Midfield: Michael Fennelly (seems determined to get back) Ollie Walsh, Luke Scanlon, Richie Leahy.
Backs: Jason Cleere, Conor Delaney, Evan Cody, Conor O'Neill, Tommy Walsh.
I could name more but that's 16 we can bring back or bring in, there are more in all positions but these are the top options in each I reckon. All can come through next year can they get to the level? Only time will tell but they all have the talent, can they back it up with determination and hunger?

All our lads now know what it's like to loose an AI and most have been very upset/p****d off some completely devastated about the loss. Other than Jackie, Larks, TJ, Hogan and M Fennelly I don't think any of the rest of the 30 have been on the field or in the camp for an AI loss. They are hurt now but I'd be very confident in time that will turn to anger, determination, hunger and a unwillingness to ever allow that to happen again. They will drive on the new lads and demand and expect perfection, who knows if we'll win or loose the AI but I can guarantee you on thing we won't be far off.

68deville

How many of the players just mentioned would be contenders for the starting
15 or at least seasoned panelists?

brookville

68deville wrote: »

How many of the players just mentioned would be contenders for the starting
15 or at least seasoned panelists?

Obviously maher and ger were injured this year but bolger,morrissey,scanlon,evan coady,conor delaney,oillie walsh and jason cleere have got a taste of training this year.billy ryan and john walsh both impressed with the intermediates.I don't think we need drastic changes for next year but I would possibly move joey out to the half back line.I'd be suprised if he was full back next year could cillian be a option at 3?we also need a long term corner back possibly conor delaney or evan cody.luke scanlon is a great prospect but his being riddled with injury for two years.John walsh and bolger have being very good for their clubs so far this season

Cornerback1

Possibly all them players will be in contention but it's vitally important that these players get tried out, whether it be the Walsh Cup or the league. Get them on board early and intergrated into the squad asap.

The one issue I would have is that with Div. 1A being a ruthless and unforgiving league in terms of teams playing very strong teams to not get relegated. A defeat or two and you're in a relegation dogfight. It's 5 tough games.


Just a general thought, would lads here be willing to get relegated (not deliberately obviously) but by trying out 5 or 6 news lads during the 5 league games? Take the league serious but give lads their chances. Could you envisage this?


Also, it'd be good, in my opinion, to give some of the lads a break during the early stages of the league esp. if they are involved in club action over Xmas and the New Year.

JJs Left Hand

Can people stop suggesting Bucks as a full back now please. I assumed it was a joke but people keep saying it. Stop.

pat 22

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Can people stop suggesting Bucks as a full back now please. I assumed it was a joke but people keep saying it. Stop.

I'd prefer to see padraic Walsh tried at full back.
Has the hurling, strength and determination to play there.

tbiggertycome

To be honest I can't see either Padraig or Cillian playing at FB they'd probably be able. Honestly the only current players I think that will get a run there are Joey again, Cody seems to like him. Michael Walsh if he stays injury free and Kieran Joyce. Personally I've always felt this is Joyce's best position but from what I remember Cody has only played him there once. That was the crazy 2014, 5 goal a side league game in the park a few years ago. Joyce had just won the AI with the Rower the previous weekend and had foolishly offered himself up for selection the following Sunday. I think it was unfair and foolish of Cody to select him for that match, also most of the goals that day were from a over all lack of tightness all over the field. Tommy and Hogan were taken off at half time but yet I don't ever recall Joyce getting another opportunity. He played their for KK at underage and I always thought he'd slot in there once JJ left. I don't think Cody will pick him but I think he should.

I can't see him playing C Delaney, E Cody or R Lennon in there but ya never know with him either.

pat 22

tbiggertycome wrote: »

To be honest I can't see either Padraig or Cillian playing at FB they'd probably be able. Honestly the only current players I think that will get a run there are Joey again, Cody seems to like him. Michael Walsh if he stays injury free and Kieran Joyce. Personally I've always felt this is Joyce's best position but from what I remember Cody has only played him there once. That was the crazy 2014, 5 goal a side league game in the park a few years ago. Joyce had just won the AI with the Rower the previous weekend and had foolishly offered himself up for selection the following Sunday. I think it was unfair and foolish of Cody to select him for that match, also most of the goals that day were from a over all lack of tightness all over the field. Tommy and Hogan were taken off at half time but yet I don't ever recall Joyce getting another opportunity. He played their for KK at underage and I always thought he'd slot in there once JJ left. I don't think Cody will pick him but I think he should.

I can't see him playing C Delaney, E Cody or R Lennon in there but ya never know with him either.

My opinion is based on the 6 backs that are there at the moment. That could change with a few new faces. To be honest and without being hard on Joyce, There's no way I would trust him at full back.
Padraic has the hurling in him to command the full back position. I dont believe joey is good enough. I would say try him out in the league.

citykat

JJ Delaney & Tommy Dunne on Tipp Dismantling Kilkenny http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/156402/JJ_Delaney__Tommy_Dunne_on_Tipp_Dismantling_Kilkenny#.V9UOa2HZ-ig.twitter via @NewstalkFM

Brilliant analysis, from JJ, on where Kilkenny went wrong Sunday. Listening to this should give those calling for Joeys head pause for thought.