Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

babyjesus14

PáircLife wrote: »

Picked a bad day to unveil the new statue!!!

We'll be pulling it down, a la the Saddam Hussein statue in Baghdad, after Dublin beat us in the Senior in a few weeks time!:D

dastardly00

PáircLife wrote: »

Picked a bad day to unveil the new statue!!!

What this about a statue?

citykat

dastardly00 wrote: »

P ircLife wrote: »

Picked a bad day to unveil the new statue!!!

What this about a statue?

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/205176/Confirmed--Hurling-monument-set-for.html

SanPel2016

dastardly00 wrote: »

What this about a statue?

statue of hurlers competing for a high ball, picture of it over on the Kilkenny forum!

northern lad

PáircLife wrote: »

I'm not wondering, I'm stating that there is no way they can be complacent. If you're complacent after winning 1 Minor All-Ireland you'd want to take a good look at yourself! Half the lads playing last night realise it might be the last time they'll ever wear a kk jersey. The other half know BC will hear about every touch they make in the match!!

As for Tom Mullally, he was involved with an unsuccessful minor team in 2013. Would like to see him involved again, he seems to be well respected in all parts of the county, and Carlow!!

He was coach to the minor team of 2012. Didnt reach Leinster final

dubcat51

Look we were poor last night and we'll done to Westmeath. Winning at minor and 21st is great but at the end of the day it's all about players for the senior team.ask galway and limerick .their were good players on our team last night that didn't perform for whatever reason . Westmeath showed more desire for me in a scrappy stop start rubbish game.9 scores between the 2 teams were from play.our success has led teams to try all sorts of tactics against us.we just have to roll up our sleeves get on with it and come out on top.hopefully our 21st last night will have learnt that lesson.we are still on for 3 in a row.every other county in ireland would like to be in that position. Let's get behind the team and drive them on . finally as someone who had 50 at 7/1 on us winning the 21 all ireland.well done again to westmeath

mullinr2

Mark my words We are heading into a barren spell for 3-5 years if not more. As Ger Loughnane put it, bar 4 really good players we have a functional team and it seems nothing is going to change that for a few years

northern lad

dubcat51 wrote: »

Look we were poor last night and we'll done to Westmeath. Winning at minor and 21st is great but at the end of the day it's all about players for the senior team.ask galway and limerick .their were good players on our team last night that didn't perform for whatever reason . Westmeath showed more desire for me in a scrappy stop start rubbish game.9 scores between the 2 teams were from play.our success has led teams to try all sorts of tactics against us.we just have to roll up our sleeves get on with it and come out on top.hopefully our 21st last night will have learnt that lesson.we are still on for 3 in a row.every other county in ireland would like to be in that position. Let's get behind the team and drive them on . finally as someone who had 50 at 7/1 on us winning the 21 all ireland.well done again to westmeath

What sort of tactics had Westmeath ? What sort of tactics had we??

Leinster Minor 2013 Meath 2-17 Westmeath 2-13
Kilkenny having lost to Wexford went on to win title

babyjesus14

mullinr2 wrote: »

Mark my words We are heading into a barren spell for 3-5 years if not more. As Ger Loughnane put it, bar 4 really good players we have a functional team and it seems nothing is going to change that for a few years

My God this nonsense makes me laugh, i guess it must be a generational thing. Up until the beginning of this century Kilkenny had won 25 All Irelands which works out at 2.25 a decade. Winning one every 3 years is a very good return, one every 5 would be the norm, a barren spell would be 10+ years. The success we have had in the last 16 years is unprecedented, unsustainable and never likely to be repeated.

Topcat32

mullinr2 wrote: »

Mark my words We are heading into a barren spell for 3-5 years if not more. As Ger Loughnane put it, bar 4 really good players we have a functional team and it seems nothing is going to change that for a few years

Eoin Murphy, Paul Murphy, Padraig Walsh, Cillian Buckley, Michael Fennelly, Conor Fogarty, Eoin Larkin, TJ Reid, Colin Fennelly and Richie Hogan are better than functional on form over the last few years, Kieran Joyce and Walter Walsh are above average, the rest are functional, with Ger Aylward and James Maher to come back and despite yesterday some talented (but seriously flaky) players at underage I think your comments are just a little negative.

There is no doubt that graph is trending downwards. Will be interesting to see if Rob Lennon, Kevin Kelly and John Power can step up to be genuine intercounty players over the next few months.

Cornerback1

Speaking of seniors and the game in O'Moore Park - does anyone know are the seats first come, first served?

randd1

Topcat32 wrote: »

Eoin Murphy, Paul Murphy, Padraig Walsh, Cillian Buckley, Michael Fennelly, Conor Fogarty, Eoin Larkin, TJ Reid, Colin Fennelly and Richie Hogan are better than functional on form over the last few years, Kieran Joyce and Walter Walsh are above average, the rest are functional, with Ger Aylward and James Maher to come back and despite yesterday some talented (but seriously flaky) players at underage I think your comments are just a little negative.

There is no doubt that graph is trending downwards. Will be interesting to see if Rob Lennon, Kevin Kelly and John Power can step up to be genuine intercounty players over the next few months.

Forget about John Power, it's never going to happen, he's far too timid and only delivers quality when we're safely on front.

If Kevin Kelly stays fit, I think he's a decent option. Maybe not starting 15, but he's far more accurate and direct than Power.

Lennon is the beat prospect of the three, if he avoids the injuries that seem to come a bit too regularly.

James Maher also showed he had a bit about him during the league.

Cornerback1

Topcat32 wrote: »

mullinr2 wrote: »

Mark my words We are heading into a barren spell for 3-5 years if not more. As Ger Loughnane put it, bar 4 really good players we have a functional team and it seems nothing is going to change that for a few years

Eoin Murphy, Paul Murphy, Padraig Walsh, Cillian Buckley, Michael Fennelly, Conor Fogarty, Eoin Larkin, TJ Reid, Colin Fennelly and Richie Hogan are better than functional on form over the last few years, Kieran Joyce and Walter Walsh are above average, the rest are functional, with Ger Aylward and James Maher to come back and despite yesterday some talented (but seriously flaky) players at underage I think your comments are just a little negative.

There is no doubt that graph is trending downwards. Will be interesting to see if Rob Lennon, Kevin Kelly and John Power can step up to be genuine intercounty players over the next few months.

By the time the seniors game comes around, the minors and U21 games will be forgot about. They be put down to a blip!!!

We have won the last 2 All Irelands and i think we'll be there or thereabouts again this year. Great opportunity for Kevin Kelly and John Power to stand up and be counted up front. There are places available.

I hope also that Mick Fennelly has an injury free year as he is crucial to us i l r na p irce. We'll have Conor Fogarty back also and he'll also add a bit of steel to to protect the 'D'.

unrealtime

The back door is an abomination. Note that we benefitted from it at senior a total of once though.

dubcat51

northern lad wrote: »

What sort of tactics had Westmeath ? What sort of tactics had we??

Leinster Minor 2013 Meath 2-17 Westmeath 2-13
Kilkenny having lost to Wexford went on to win title

Westmeath played with a sweeper and at times 2 extra men at the back.they worked hard and came off the shoulder when they attacked drawing frees.as for us we continued to run up blind alleys.for me 2 big men on the edge of the square is the best way 2 beat a massed defence. Everyone felt we would somehow up a gear but it never came. (Except maybe in time added on)

Noddy33

Mark Bergin apparently got the recall and is back in with the senior squad.Not too many people have gotten a second chance off Cody like that!

dobbs2210

Noddy33 wrote: »

Mark Bergin apparently got the recall and is back in with the senior squad.Not too many people have gotten a second chance off Cody like that!

Sign of the absolute lack of depth in the panel currently. Brian Cody never recalled ever in his management career.

randd1

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Sign of the absolute lack of depth in the panel currently. Brian Cody never recalled ever in his management career.

In fairness, Bergin has been the standout player in club this year, and he's an option on the frees. He's in savage form.

Considering some on the panel, at this moment in time Bergin is a good call, at the very least he'll give training a boost in quality.

dobbs2210

randd1 wrote: »

In fairness, Bergin has been the standout player in club this year, and he's an option on the frees. He's in savage form.

Considering some on the panel, at this moment in time Bergin is a good call, at the very least he'll give training a boost in quality.

I agree. Saw him against Mullinavat and he was flying. Scored 1-5 from play.

citykat

Noddy33 wrote: »

Mark Bergin apparently got the recall and is back in with the senior squad.Not too many people have gotten a second chance off Cody like that!

Bergin or Kelly?

Dionysis

In fairness calling Bergin back could be a positive thing also. Shows that although you may have been dropped, if you put your head down and work hard then you'll get called up again. Didn't it happen Paul Murphy ?

northern lad

Dionysis wrote: »

In fairness calling Bergin back could be a positive thing also. Shows that although you may have been dropped, if you put your head down and work hard then you'll get called up again. Didn't it happen Paul Murphy ?

Mark is a fine hurler

brookville

http://www.the42.ie/westmeath-kilkenny-u21-2790078-May2016/

Noddy33

citykat wrote: »

Noddy33 wrote: »

Mark Bergin apparently got the recall and is back in with the senior squad.Not too many people have gotten a second chance off Cody like that!

Bergin or Kelly?

Yes Mark Bergin.In fairness Kelly has being doing quite well for o'loughlins this year but he got enough chances with kilkenny and could never produce the goods consistently in a run of games together.Bergin has been very good this year for club.Kilkenny are short are few quality forwards and Bergin ball winning and work ethic has improved of late.He always had the skills and the touch so I actually think his potential at county level is greater than what it was when he was on the panel 3/4 years ago

citykat

Noddy33 wrote: »

citykat wrote: »

Noddy33 wrote: »

Mark Bergin apparently got the recall and is back in with the senior squad.Not too many people have gotten a second chance off Cody like that!

Bergin or Kelly?

Yes Mark Bergin.In fairness Kelly has being doing quite well for o'loughlins this year but he got enough chances with kilkenny and could never produce the goods consistently in a run of games together.Bergin has been very good this year for club.Kilkenny are short are few quality forwards and Bergin ball winning and work ethic has improved of late.He always had the skills and the touch so I actually think his potential at county level is greater than what it was when he was on the panel 3/4 years ago

I would tend to agree with you. I don't see this as anything other than another lad who has played himself back onto the panel. It's actually a credit to the chap that he didn't take the hump having been dropped and is willing to put himself back into contention for consideration. He's what, about 27/28 so should be in his prime. Look at how Shane Pender slotted in last year.
As you say he's been one of O' Loughlins most consistent performers over the last few years (along with Gorta of course!). O' Loughlins have been in the top three for the last few years so that's the level at which he's been operating. We hear a lot about the intensity of the senior championship so with a bit of training over the summer he shouldn't be far off the standard. I expect at the very least his inclusion will provide some badly competition in the midfield/forwards.

unrealtime

Great news - a quality player who could make hay on the day, if lacking consistency at inter-county level.

Hawkeye6

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

One more thought, these guys leave school at 18. When the support system of their city secondary school is gone. What happens? Think about our recent Under-21 record . Their support system is gone and you ve discarded the other lads.

First congratulations to Westmeath.

Secondly, I am surprised, shocked and gutted that Kilkenny U21 lost to Westmeath (no disrespect intended to Westmeath) but I m NOT surprised the U21s won nothing despite that obvious hurling quality.



The quote above came from what I posted in the first of a series of my posts bemoaning the minor setup in Kilkenny over the past few years and the culture that has developed and the over dependency on the City Colleges, must especially St. Kierans College. That first post came before BEFORE Kilkenny were knocked out of both the minor and U21 (27Apr, P67). Interested parties will no doubt review the previous posts.

Suffice to say here that the culture that has been allowed develop by the minor manager and his various management teams started off almost unnoticed but is growing into a rampant disease. It is well documented that Eddie Brennan had to take drastic action relating to the commitment of a number of players who had got used to the less than challenging environment at minor. Eddie is an inexperienced manager who was handed the unenviable job to turn the culture around to what is expected of KILKENNY inter county hurlers. Not an easy mess to clean up.

Players are not being challenged at minor level anymore. Your choice of school dictates selection. I m reliably informed that one of the minor selectors said in January we already know our 18 or 19 players who will see game time . We are told the dogs in the street are barking about the player who walked back on the starting team after a self-imposed sabbatical. My surprise is that so few people are actually shocked by this revelation. How could that player have real desire . That culture at that age in a club team becomes very difficult to fix, what makes anyone think it is any easier at county level?

On the bright side, the players coming through are highly talented hurlers, but it is extremely important to re-introduce the senior values at minor and Under-21. It is not necessarily going to have a major effect on the senior setup while the current management team is in place as you only need 2 or 3 lads with the Right attitude to keep the momentum. For those looking for the source of the issue, look no further than the minor setup. Some people were talking about the success of the minor management over the last four years. With the quality of young players we have, an All-Ireland quarter final is the MINIMUM target. A semi-final is only one step further along than the minimum. Would I be correct in saying that in the old days before back doors, we d have only won one Leinster in four years with hugely talented hurlers?

Besides the culture steps, two immediate steps are required. A shake up at minor management and a development squad over the winter/spring for U20/U19 (players born 1997/1998). It may be too late to get some of the players back to the required level and confidence especially, but it should be tried. A lot of the players discarded at minor over the last few years are from border based junior clubs and we are codding ourselves if we think junior hurling is at a high enough quality for them alone. These are good players who need the opportunity to fulfil their full potential. Therefore they need an outlet to allow them play at a higher level in order to rebuild their confidence and faith in the system, to take advantage of the better attitude, work ethic and increase competiveness in the 19-20 age bracket.

Unfortunately, as I said before people have to realise there is an issue before a cure is found. It is a pity it will take so many defeats before people accept there is an issue. On the other hand, we are still much better placed than most counties and if action is swift, our dominance at senior can still continue. We still have the hurling (for the time being), we need to reintroduce competiveness, commitment and spirit into our culture.

Realt Dearg Sec

Great post. I think for all the flak you've gotten for your posts (and hands up, I was one of them) you're clearly onto something.

pmy.murphy

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

First congratulations to Westmeath.

Secondly, I am surprised, shocked and gutted that Kilkenny U21 lost to Westmeath (no disrespect intended to Westmeath) but I m NOT surprised the U21s won nothing despite that obvious hurling quality.



The quote above came from what I posted in the first of a series of my posts bemoaning the minor setup in Kilkenny over the past few years and the culture that has developed and the over dependency on the City Colleges, must especially St. Kierans College. That first post came before BEFORE Kilkenny were knocked out of both the minor and U21 (27Apr, P67). Interested parties will no doubt review the previous posts.

Suffice to say here that the culture that has been allowed develop by the minor manager and his various management teams started off almost unnoticed but is growing into a rampant disease. It is well documented that Eddie Brennan had to take drastic action relating to the commitment of a number of players who had got used to the less than challenging environment at minor. Eddie is an inexperienced manager who was handed the unenviable job to turn the culture around to what is expected of KILKENNY inter county hurlers. Not an easy mess to clean up.

Players are not being challenged at minor level anymore. Your choice of school dictates selection. I m reliably informed that one of the minor selectors said in January we already know our 18 or 19 players who will see game time . We are told the dogs in the street are barking about the player who walked back on the starting team after a self-imposed sabbatical. My surprise is that so few people are actually shocked by this revelation. How could that player have real desire . That culture at that age in a club team becomes very difficult to fix, what makes anyone think it is any easier at county level?

On the bright side, the players coming through are highly talented hurlers, but it is extremely important to re-introduce the senior values at minor and Under-21. It is not necessarily going to have a major effect on the senior setup while the current management team is in place as you only need 2 or 3 lads with the Right attitude to keep the momentum. For those looking for the source of the issue, look no further than the minor setup. Some people were talking about the success of the minor management over the last four years. With the quality of young players we have, an All-Ireland quarter final is the MINIMUM target. A semi-final is only one step further along than the minimum. Would I be correct in saying that in the old days before back doors, we d have only won one Leinster in four years with hugely talented hurlers?

Besides the culture steps, two immediate steps are required. A shake up at minor management and a development squad over the winter/spring for U20/U19 (players born 1997/1998). It may be too late to get some of the players back to the required level and confidence especially, but it should be tried. A lot of the players discarded at minor over the last few years are from border based junior clubs and we are codding ourselves if we think junior hurling is at a high enough quality for them alone. These are good players who need the opportunity to fulfil their full potential. Therefore they need an outlet to allow them play at a higher level in order to rebuild their confidence and faith in the system, to take advantage of the better attitude, work ethic and increase competiveness in the 19-20 age bracket.

Unfortunately, as I said before people have to realise there is an issue before a cure is found. It is a pity it will take so many defeats before people accept there is an issue. On the other hand, we are still much better placed than most counties and if action is swift, our dominance at senior can still continue. We still have the hurling (for the time being), we need to reintroduce competiveness, commitment and spirit into our culture.

Hit the nail on the head. Also having witnessed Mark Bergins performance against Mullinavat, the thought that he should be called up again did cross my mind along with the statistic that Brian Cody rarely gives second chances. Good to see him called back up and deservedly so. Hes obviously in great form

randd1

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

First congratulations to Westmeath.

Secondly, I am surprised, shocked and gutted that Kilkenny U21 lost to Westmeath (no disrespect intended to Westmeath) but I m NOT surprised the U21s won nothing despite that obvious hurling quality.



The quote above came from what I posted in the first of a series of my posts bemoaning the minor setup in Kilkenny over the past few years and the culture that has developed and the over dependency on the City Colleges, must especially St. Kierans College. That first post came before BEFORE Kilkenny were knocked out of both the minor and U21 (27Apr, P67). Interested parties will no doubt review the previous posts.

Suffice to say here that the culture that has been allowed develop by the minor manager and his various management teams started off almost unnoticed but is growing into a rampant disease. It is well documented that Eddie Brennan had to take drastic action relating to the commitment of a number of players who had got used to the less than challenging environment at minor. Eddie is an inexperienced manager who was handed the unenviable job to turn the culture around to what is expected of KILKENNY inter county hurlers. Not an easy mess to clean up.

Players are not being challenged at minor level anymore. Your choice of school dictates selection. I m reliably informed that one of the minor selectors said in January we already know our 18 or 19 players who will see game time . We are told the dogs in the street are barking about the player who walked back on the starting team after a self-imposed sabbatical. My surprise is that so few people are actually shocked by this revelation. How could that player have real desire . That culture at that age in a club team becomes very difficult to fix, what makes anyone think it is any easier at county level?

On the bright side, the players coming through are highly talented hurlers, but it is extremely important to re-introduce the senior values at minor and Under-21. It is not necessarily going to have a major effect on the senior setup while the current management team is in place as you only need 2 or 3 lads with the Right attitude to keep the momentum. For those looking for the source of the issue, look no further than the minor setup. Some people were talking about the success of the minor management over the last four years. With the quality of young players we have, an All-Ireland quarter final is the MINIMUM target. A semi-final is only one step further along than the minimum. Would I be correct in saying that in the old days before back doors, we d have only won one Leinster in four years with hugely talented hurlers?

Besides the culture steps, two immediate steps are required. A shake up at minor management and a development squad over the winter/spring for U20/U19 (players born 1997/1998). It may be too late to get some of the players back to the required level and confidence especially, but it should be tried. A lot of the players discarded at minor over the last few years are from border based junior clubs and we are codding ourselves if we think junior hurling is at a high enough quality for them alone. These are good players who need the opportunity to fulfil their full potential. Therefore they need an outlet to allow them play at a higher level in order to rebuild their confidence and faith in the system, to take advantage of the better attitude, work ethic and increase competiveness in the 19-20 age bracket.

Unfortunately, as I said before people have to realise there is an issue before a cure is found. It is a pity it will take so many defeats before people accept there is an issue. On the other hand, we are still much better placed than most counties and if action is swift, our dominance at senior can still continue. We still have the hurling (for the time being), we need to reintroduce competiveness, commitment and spirit into our culture.

Great post, but I would go one further.

There are roughly 40 clubs in Kilkenny.
Split them into 4 development squads comprising of 10 clubs geographically nearby for Minor and U21, with a manager and selector comprising of retired players with coaching directions from the county Manager of the grade.

During the spring when the clubs are on hiatus and the seniors are in the league, have every club puts forward their 3 best available players, with the selectors and managers getting to bring in another 5 of whoever he wants.

Over the course of 7 weeks have intense training three times a week the first week, and twice a week with a match against another divisional side at the weekend, with a focus on skills development and attitude. 6 A and B (subs and unused subs from the Agame) matches, each divisional side facing each other twice.

Long term, theoretically, the Minor/U21 managers will have looked at up to 120 players in a given year.
On top of that each club will have 6 players every year going through intense county training to come back to them, which hopefully will improve club standards in the long run.