Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Bonniedog

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

U21 Hurling Challenge at Whitechurch GAA for their facilities opening ended Cork 3-23 Kilkenny 1-24
Wasn't there an awful lot of empty seats in the stand at Parnell Park on Sunday. I presume these were for absent season ticket holders. The GAA might want to review that situation.

Every part of ground was jammed other than some empty seats at either end of stand. Season tickets who were given first call over the rest of us, and weren't bothered turning up.

babyjesus14

Bonniedog wrote: »

Every part of ground was jammed other than some empty seats at either end of stand. Season tickets who were given first call over the rest of us, and weren't bothered turning up.

Us season ticket holders were entitled to a seat last Sunday as part of the deal but a better system would have been if you still had to print off a ticket in advance say by the Friday and then they would've known how many were going to show up. Rather than just showing up with your season ticket and having it scanned.

Bonniedog

That sounds too much like common sense!

If you have a county pass then you still need to get a ticket in advance. Same should apply to season tickets, especially given the big crowds that are turning up this year. Both Leinster games are sold out already for next weekend. From our vantage point on terrace you could see streams of people being turned away and 2/300 empty seats,

tbiggertycome

Bonniedog wrote: »

That sounds too much like common sense!

If you have a county pass then you still need to get a ticket in advance. Same should apply to season tickets, especially given the big crowds that are turning up this year. Both Leinster games are sold out already for next weekend. From our vantage point on terrace you could see streams of people being turned away and 2/300 empty seats,

I would assume that's the online sales that are sold out, there is no way Kilkenny and Offaly is going to bring 24,000 to Nowlan park I would say closer to 7,000-10,000. They will probably realease more as the week goes on.

babyjesus14

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I would assume that's the online sales that are sold out, there is no way Kilkenny and Offaly is going to bring 24,000 to Nowlan park I would say closer to 7,000-10,000. They will probably realease more as the week goes on.

It will be very interesting to see how many will be in the Park on Sunday with both the Munster matches on telly at the same time!

HoHohurlin

HughCassidy wrote: »

It was his elbow he got him with not his shoulder.

Only seen the match properly last night, no foul in it,looked worse from where i was at the match

village runner

babyjesus14 wrote: »

It will be very interesting to see how many will be in the Park on Sunday with both the Munster matches on telly at the same time!

Very good point
If the kk was at 2 at least you could watch the second game

Hawkeye6

Back to the Club and meaningful games for anyone interested. Below is Tbiggertycome’s definition posted last week.

“One last thing is a meaningful game is a game where there is something at stake that is valued. A player really values a Championship medal he kind of values a League medal but it helps him get his ultimate goal the championship medal. I don't know any player that values a Byrne or Aylward cup medal. I'm sure there are a few who have won them over the years that did but the vast majority don't. As a result the meaningful games in Kilkenny adult hurling are all Championship and league games. No one takes seriously the other games, be they challenge or other competitions.”

I won’t disagree with what is said and it’s probably correct in relation to a lot of players. That’s doesn’t mean I’ll fully agree with it either. Personally, every match from the training field to the challenge to league to the championship final is meaningful or else I wouldn’t bother with any of it, but I understand, that he’s describing “most players”, so my personal thoughts do not come into it, but I want to tease it out, without arguing.

The Kilkenny League Championship then has the only matches that fit the category of Meaningful. The format as it has been for a number of years (and we’ll only talk senior to keep it simple), guarantees a minimum of 7 and a maximum of 9 meaningful games per year for a club player, if you make the team. (Excluding replays). Virtually every game is important due to the advantages of league position. So how do you turn that in more meaningful matches? The options are; make the league section home and away or increase the number of teams. Both options reduces the importance of many league games as the English Premiership found out on the final day of the season and over the past few weeks in some cases. So what was meaningful may lose meaning. Those who talk about the games in Junior soccer. Most of those league games are not meaningful and there are lots of walk overs at the latter end of a season because of dead rubbers.
Another option from a Kilkenny GAA point of view would be to put an extra effort into football. It would automatically double the potential of meaningful games. We know where a lot of Kilkenny people stand on this, club managements and administrators especially.

The point is that if the likes of the Byrne cup is not considered meaningful, it’s not easy to come up with alternatives. If we add teams to the senior, apart for the potential of not so meaningful games, we only have a finite number of teams/clubs, so we have to take teams from the Intermediate, which in turn will have to take from the junior. This is why I also posed the question, what do people feel is a reasonable number of meaningful matches? Is 7-9 enough? Is 14-18 enough if you include football? What do the players want in Kilkenny? I have asked a lot of players and all I hear is that they just want to Play Matches which contradicts tbiggertycome. However the footfall and effort from the players, supporters and management often proves tbiggertycome correct about Byrne Cup etc. Do they or don’t they just want to play matches? I’m pretty sure you panellist is more than happy to play any kind of a match. This is the quandary and this is just one grade, Senior.

I’m in the camp which says lets figure out what the real issue(s) is and what do the majority want before we go with anymore knee jerk reactions/”solutions”. I also believe no two counties will be the same. Personally, I agree too with tbiggertycome regarding players getting together and becoming an organised pressure group within their club (i.e. they couldn’t be bothered). So is it a case of accepting what you are given, don’t you just want to play matches anyway?? So play them.

As an aside, I do think the Byrne and Aylward Cups are a waste of time. There are better competitions that could be run. I have a couple of ideas. Maybe next time, I might throw them out and see what sticks.

jeff bingham

The byrne and alyward cups are complete waste of time. There could be subs off a clubs second team playing some of the games. They serve a point I suppose in saving clubs organising challenges.

droppingball

Watched the match back again, Dublins physicality and the tight pitch really made us go away from what we were doing in the league.

We worked the ball through the lines so well through the league, the worry for me is are we able to do it when other teams are at championship pace. I am hoping it was due to the tightness of parnell, it being the first championship match and they will grow in to it.

Also when we faced sweeper in the league a corner forward covered him but the three stayed inside on Sunday which was very strange to change it.

Padraig Walsh needs to try break ball to our spare man more instead of trying to catch everything especially when he is losing aerial battles.

We will need to be way better in the half forward line the next day, more competitive in the air and more physical on the breaks.

Thought Scanlon hurled well when he came on, covered loads of ground and got on ball, I think fennelly Walter and Scanlon should start this weekend in full forward line.

Walter is leading the line very well at full forward so we need to keep him involved in as much play as possible. His directness is hard to stop, rushe was direct but he was charging all day.

Interesting to see what changes will be made. I think we will see fogarty, murphy, fennelly, scanlon and blanchfield all start.

Village87

droppingball wrote: »

Watched the match back again, Dublins physicality and the tight pitch really made us go away from what we were doing in the league.

We worked the ball through the lines so well through the league, the worry for me is are we able to do it when other teams are at championship pace. I am hoping it was due to the tightness of parnell, it being the first championship match and they will grow in to it.

Also when we faced sweeper in the league a corner forward covered him but the three stayed inside on Sunday which was very strange to change it.

Padraig Walsh needs to try break ball to our spare man more instead of trying to catch everything especially when he is losing aerial battles.

We will need to be way better in the half forward line the next day, more competitive in the air and more physical on the breaks.

Thought Scanlon hurled well when he came on, covered loads of ground and got on ball, I think fennelly Walter and Scanlon should start this weekend in full forward line.

Walter is leading the line very well at full forward so we need to keep him involved in as much play as possible. His directness is hard to stop, rushe was direct but he was charging all day.

Interesting to see what changes will be made. I think we will see fogarty, murphy, fennelly, scanlon and blanchfield all start.

Some excellent Points, especially about Padraig Walsh breaking the ball down for the extra man. He will have nightmares about Rushe.

brookville

The full back position is probably the hardest and becoming harder to find a number 3.Padraig is not a natural full back and what we'd do to have him at 5.
I heard jj saying before in an interview that you have to learn when to go for a ball and when to just try break it for someone else because your the in the last line on the fb line.Hopefully padraig will learn from the tough days because its unlikely padraig will be moved from full back.

Village87

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Back to the Club and meaningful games for anyone interested. Below is Tbiggertycome’s definition posted last week.

“One last thing is a meaningful game is a game where there is something at stake that is valued. A player really values a Championship medal he kind of values a League medal but it helps him get his ultimate goal the championship medal. I don't know any player that values a Byrne or Aylward cup medal. I'm sure there are a few who have won them over the years that did but the vast majority don't. As a result the meaningful games in Kilkenny adult hurling are all Championship and league games. No one takes seriously the other games, be they challenge or other competitions.”

I won’t disagree with what is said and it’s probably correct in relation to a lot of players. That’s doesn’t mean I’ll fully agree with it either. Personally, every match from the training field to the challenge to league to the championship final is meaningful or else I wouldn’t bother with any of it, but I understand, that he’s describing “most players”, so my personal thoughts do not come into it, but I want to tease it out, without arguing.

The Kilkenny League Championship then has the only matches that fit the category of Meaningful. The format as it has been for a number of years (and we’ll only talk senior to keep it simple), guarantees a minimum of 7 and a maximum of 9 meaningful games per year for a club player, if you make the team. (Excluding replays). Virtually every game is important due to the advantages of league position. So how do you turn that in more meaningful matches? The options are; make the league section home and away or increase the number of teams. Both options reduces the importance of many league games as the English Premiership found out on the final day of the season and over the past few weeks in some cases. So what was meaningful may lose meaning. Those who talk about the games in Junior soccer. Most of those league games are not meaningful and there are lots of walk overs at the latter end of a season because of dead rubbers.
Another option from a Kilkenny GAA point of view would be to put an extra effort into football. It would automatically double the potential of meaningful games. We know where a lot of Kilkenny people stand on this, club managements and administrators especially.

The point is that if the likes of the Byrne cup is not considered meaningful, it’s not easy to come up with alternatives. If we add teams to the senior, apart for the potential of not so meaningful games, we only have a finite number of teams/clubs, so we have to take teams from the Intermediate, which in turn will have to take from the junior. This is why I also posed the question, what do people feel is a reasonable number of meaningful matches? Is 7-9 enough? Is 14-18 enough if you include football? What do the players want in Kilkenny? I have asked a lot of players and all I hear is that they just want to Play Matches which contradicts tbiggertycome. However the footfall and effort from the players, supporters and management often proves tbiggertycome correct about Byrne Cup etc. Do they or don’t they just want to play matches? I’m pretty sure you panellist is more than happy to play any kind of a match. This is the quandary and this is just one grade, Senior.

I’m in the camp which says lets figure out what the real issue(s) is and what do the majority want before we go with anymore knee jerk reactions/”solutions”. I also believe no two counties will be the same. Personally, I agree too with tbiggertycome regarding players getting together and becoming an organised pressure group within their club (i.e. they couldn’t be bothered). So is it a case of accepting what you are given, don’t you just want to play matches anyway?? So play them.

As an aside, I do think the Byrne and Aylward Cups are a waste of time. There are better competitions that could be run. I have a couple of ideas. Maybe next time, I might throw them out and see what sticks.

Good point about the football, club football in May & June would help keep players fresh and not try flog them with hurling.

Kilkenny footballers were out last week, and also this week against Scotland so fixtures might be congested is the only thing

greenspurs

I have to say , imo , Walter Walsh is playing really well so far this year.
I know he has been really hit and miss in previous seasons , but this year in the League, and against Dublin , he has been really good.
His physique and his strength make him hard to stop once he gets the ball in hand and powers on. Its a great sight to see him jumping, grabbing the sliotar out of the sky, turning and running towards goal.
I hope he kicks on and keeps it up, as he is an important player this year.

danganabu

greenspurs wrote: »

I have to say , imo , Walter Walsh is playing really well so far this year.
I know he has been really hit and miss in previous seasons , but this year in the League, and against Dublin , he has been really good.
His physique and his strength make him hard to stop once he gets the ball in hand and powers on. Its a great sight to see him jumping, grabbing the sliotar out of the sky, turning and running towards goal.
I hope he kicks on and keeps it up, as he is an important player this year.

Absolutely agree, he has definitely steped up to the mark and I think he is relishing being one of the 'senior' figures. Teams are going to target TJ and this will allow Walsh a bit more freedom as well.

Village87

greenspurs wrote: »

I have to say , imo , Walter Walsh is playing really well so far this year.
I know he has been really hit and miss in previous seasons , but this year in the League, and against Dublin , he has been really good.
His physique and his strength make him hard to stop once he gets the ball in hand and powers on. Its a great sight to see him jumping, grabbing the sliotar out of the sky, turning and running towards goal.
I hope he kicks on and keeps it up, as he is an important player this year.

Eoin Murphy, TJ Reid & Wally Walsh are irreplaceable at present

brookville

Whats our thoughts this weekend?its going to be a tough match again but we should be winning this at home.Another win could see us reach a quater final.
It'll be intresting to see what changes are made id like to give the lads that were called ashore early given another go.Id like to see leahy,morrissey and mossy start they've being a breath of fresh air but i feel we might need fogarty,colin and murphy for their strenght and no how.
Hopefully hogan can make the bench cause the last 2 matches will probably decide who reaches the leinster final and you cant beat game time.Last weekend will have brought on murphy and colin a ton.Scanlon has also impressed granted his still very light but his direct and is improving.

dastardly00

brookville wrote: »

Whats our thoughts this weekend?its going to be a tough match again but we should be winning this at home.Another win could see us reach a quater final.
It'll be intresting to see what changes are made id like to give the lads that were called ashore early given another go.Id like to see leahy,morrissey and mossy start they've being a breath of fresh air but i feel we might need fogarty,colin and murphy for their strenght and no how.
Hopefully hogan can make the bench cause the last 2 matches will probably decide who reaches the leinster final and you cant beat game time.Last weekend will have brought on murphy and colin a ton.Scanlon has also impressed granted his still very light but his direct and is improving.

A good performance (obviously) with us scoring a few goals and not conceding any. It would be great if the lads who got taken off the last day get some game time again.

savannahkat

Time for a reality check. Joey while a very good player who does much right is infuriating at times dawdling and dithering or dropping the ball trying to solo past opponents when he has plenty of time to get rid of it. He will then do something bordering on brilliant aka the interception last Sunday that prevented a certain goal. The fact is his style of hurling and his attributes are not those one seeks from a cornerback. Padraigh Walsh is no full back and never will be. He is no JJ Delaney and that is no insult as JJ was  a unique talent. He is however very much missed from the halfback line. Walsh should be switched with Conor Delaney who is a very good tight hurler. Both Colin Fennelly and Paul Murphy have to make the team. James Maher is our anchor midfielder at present He works harder, covers more ground, is available for more passes and fights his own ball better than Leahy or Fogarty. Luke Scanlan whenever he comes on always contributes and it was his ball winning and pass that led to Blanchfields goal the last day.Ger Alyward has done nothing in his past few games to warrant retention. Murphy Fennelly and Scanlan should be brought in with Fennelly going to midfield with Maher. John Donnelly fights hard and center forward is his ideal position. He has height pace and gets stuck in which would leave Reid at wing forward being able to roam and turn up where ever he thinks most damage can be done. Leahy would get the other wing forward purely on reputation but if he does not produce the goods in the first 20 minutes I would have him off .
Murphy
Murphy Delaney Deegan
Walsh Buckley Holden
Fennelly Maher
Reid Donnelly Leahy
Scanlan Walsh Blanchfield.

Justice for the individual

greenspurs wrote: »

I have to say , imo , Walter Walsh is playing really well so far this year.
I know he has been really hit and miss in previous seasons , but this year in the League, and against Dublin , he has been really good.
His physique and his strength make him hard to stop once he gets the ball in hand and powers on. Its a great sight to see him jumping, grabbing the sliotar out of the sky, turning and running towards goal.
I hope he kicks on and keeps it up, as he is an important player this year.

Yes, as I said before here, Walter and Liam showed what should be done last Sunday. Walter was breaking tackles all day and basically he kept Kilkenny in the game. Liam needs to be nearer goal to get that run of his. He got the break at the right time and was already gone past his man when he got the pass - a Dublin player tried to trip him just outside the square, but he kept going and there was no way he was going to allow himself not to score. That is what Kilkenny had been missing up to then - big guys to take on their man and break the tackle.

You could see with Dublin using Rushe and Keaney to do the same, although in Rushe's case he was barging and swinging his hurl dangerously. They were not worried about the steps they took, as do other teams - they leave the ref to deal with that and hope he is soft on them.

Saying all that, Dublin played some brilliant hurling and were well primed to take Kilkenny's scalp.

I'm sure Kilkenny did not take them for granted though, but got caught for the three goals which were basically caused by slack marking, and a bit of barging on Rushe's part.

Paul Murphy and Colin Fennelly were outstanding when they came on and steadied Kilkenny, which enabled them to dominate the last ten minutes of the game as Dublin appeared to tire and their intensity dropped a notch or two. Kilkenny had good subs to come on and with Keaney gone, Dublin's subs bench was not as strong.

oconnol1

Kil. v Off. E Murphy J Holden P Walsh P Deegan C Delaney C Buckley P Murphy C Fogarty J Maher M Keoghan TJ Reid R Leahy J Donnelly W Walsh L Scanlon Subs D Brennan C O Shea C Browne R Lennon J Cleere L Ryan P Lyng L Blanchfield G Aylward B Sheehan C Fennelly.

minty81

Morrissey injured?

Realt Dearg Sec

Harsh on fennelly!

Kkman00

oconnol1 wrote: »

Kil. v Off. E Murphy J Holden P Walsh P Deegan C Delaney C Buckley P Murphy C Fogarty J Maher M Keoghan TJ Reid R Leahy J Donnelly W Walsh L Scanlon Subs D Brennan C O Shea C Browne R Lennon J Cleere L Ryan P Lyng L Blanchfield G Aylward B Sheehan C Fennelly.

Anyone know if Enda morrissey is injured considering he's not even on bench?

adrian522

Write up on the 1968 league final...interesting stuff, had heard a bit about this but didn't know about all the fallout afterwards...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/kilkenny-v-tipperary-1968-the-only-day-in-my-career-i-felt-a-bit-afraid-on-the-field-469526.html

phkk

minty81 wrote: »

Morrissey injured?

Must be, gone off bench so presumably he picked up a knock.

tbiggertycome

minty81 wrote: »

Morrissey injured?

He's sick so that's why he's dropped from the 26

brookville

tbiggertycome wrote: »

minty81 wrote: »

Morrissey injured?

He's sick so that's why he's dropped from the 26

Any update how kevin kelly is recovering when is he due back?hopefully richie will be on the panel next week but no ganetime under his belt so far which is dissapointing.

therealdonster

Can anyone explain why John Walsh was dropped from the squad earlier this year? Corner forward has been an area which has been a major weakness and probably explains our troubles with scoring goals. To me he looks the most natural in the position in the county and its a shame not to see him involved.

Not one corner forward tried during the entirety of the league showed anything to suggest they are going to solve this. I include Sheehan, Aylward, Scanlon and Martin in this.

Better players down through the years were also ruthlessly canned after one average display (Joe Brennan, John Mulhall as two examples) - the same rule it appears does not apply to other players like Joey Holden who despite another inept display against Dublin keeps his place.

castlecat

Kevin Kelly is back running , highly unlikely to see any game time in the round robin series , he should be ready for a Leinster final if we get there ,