Poseur cyclists who won't use designated cycle lanes

cython

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I must admit to being a man who is volte-face when it comes to cyclists. When I'm driving the 5-Series into work of a morning, I always despair at the mindless actions of cyclists (and this is in Germany, not Ireland). Almost nonchalant contempt for the fact that a 2000 kg example of precision German engineering is within 50cm as they break so many rules of the road.

I see the other side of the argument when I head out for a cycle in the mountains at the weekend. I'm a very conscientious road user. This is a rural setting. Car drivers seem to act out their grievances towards cyclists if it involves sharing a road on a difficult climb.

If you are regularly driving within 50cm of cyclists, then you may need to reevaluate the way you drive - generally accepted safe passing distance is a minimum of 3x that.

Qualitymark

cython wrote: »

If you are regularly driving within 50cm of cyclists, then you may need to reevaluate the way you drive - generally accepted safe passing distance is a minimum of 3x that.

Yes, as @gadetra points out:

rolliepoley

Beasty wrote: »

Do you waddle though?

Sometimes.

rubadub

Stranger Danger wrote: »

Why can't cyclists just get the bus like other people who aren't able to afford a car?.

That's news to me, I mean it's common knowledge no cyclist owns a car, but now you are telling me not a single one of these bus **** pay road tax either?! yet get full use of the road, even special lanes!

think we need more anti-bus wanker threads, high & mighty pricks

Nichard Dixon

cython wrote: »

If you are regularly driving within 50cm of cyclists, then you may need to reevaluate the way you drive - generally accepted safe passing distance is a minimum of 3x that.

Indeed, this is a point., Presumably then cyclists should not come within 150cm of motorists also.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Middle aged men have to lose the lycra gear for sure. In the likes of Amsterdam the bicycle is used by many folks, commuters, students etc . They wear normal street clothes when cycling, they don't deck out like they're taking part in the Tour de France.

They also respect the traffic rules as cycling is ingrained in the Dutch culture. I notice that many don't do the same over here. Every day I hear loud horn blasts and see angry fists and middle fingers from frustrated motorists.

sdanseo

Cyclists aren't bad.

Militant cyclists are a danger to everyone around them including themselves.

Alas too many fall into the second category.

cython

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Indeed, this is a point., Presumably then cyclists should not come within 150cm of motorists also.

That is some pretty specious reasoning. There are numerous reasons as to why a bicycle passing a stationary (or even slow moving) car within 150cm is much safer than a car passing a cyclist within the same distance:

• Much smaller air displacement
• Cars having 4 wheels and a much larger mass are less impacted by air displacement anyway
• Cars are less likely to need to swerve to avoid a hazard - many holes which a car can go over could damage a bike, not to mention drains, manholes, etc. and this wiggle room is part of the reasoning for the overtaking distance.
• Typically lower speed - minor deviations/errors at the higher speed of a car will see the clearance from an overtaken cyclist eroded much quicker.
• More comprehensive visibility of both sides of their vehicle - driver however, is generally removed by at least 1.5m from the nearest point of their car to the cyclist, making this manoeuvre more error-prone.
• And probably most significantly, a cyclist is not endangering the life of a car driver by passing within this distance.

In fact the main reason to leave that distance from a car is to avoid the door zone, but in many situations cyclists pass cars where occupants should not be opening doors anyway

Pinch Flat

sdanseo wrote: »

Cyclists aren't bad.

Militant cyclists are a danger to everyone around them including themselves.

Alas too many fall into the second category.

All too right, I'm grateful that there's no militant drivers on the road

Especially ones who crash into the luas
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/luas-releases-video-footage-of-drivers-crashing-into-trams-1.1820304

Ignore railway level crossings
http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/shocking-irish-rail-footage-shows-motorists-crashing-into-level-crossings-34137819.html

Or, shock horror, drive when banned and cause accidents
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/over-500-banned-drivers-in-serious-crashes-in-two-years-1.2400717

Titzon Toast

Cyclists are grand, it's the Roadies that are complete bastards.

desertcircus

What's with the frothing rage directed at Lycra-wearers who like to cycle for fitness? It's bloody weird. Do you stand at the side of the pitch in your local park on a Sunday and abuse the corner forward for wearing a gumshield and a pair of boots?

Lycra makes the most sense when you're cycling because it doesn't flap in the wind and it doesn't chafe. That's it.

80s Child

justchecked wrote: »

The roads are for automobiles, thats just how it is, regardless of any bs references about how they were originally for donkies and carts.

Oh but the law says ye carriage is legal pon foote path and yonder new fangled bi-cycle mobile pon the kings high way.

Yeah very good. In the meantime engineers arent really thinking about rubber shorts wearing fantasists when designing a network for transporting workers and goods.

Cyclists are a menace to towns and main roads and crowded areas and should be banned from them.
Councils should stop cleaning up broken glass from busy roadsides, maybe even start putting it down on certain roadsides so these buffoons who are divorced..from reality can get a bus or walk or get a cheap moped or car.

This is a very well thought out argument. I demand glass on the side of the road also. I am now going to email my local TD, and tell him that he won't get my vote unless he puts glass on the side of the road!!!

Pinch Flat

desertcircus wrote: »

Lycra makes the most sense when you're cycling because it doesn't flap in the wind and it doesn't chafe. That's it.

It's the pad in the shorts when used with a good quality chamois cream that works wonders, but a whole new thread needed for that :pac:

steamengine

desertcircus wrote: »

What's with the frothing rage directed at Lycra-wearers who like to cycle for fitness? It's bloody weird. Do you stand at the side of the pitch in your local park on a Sunday and abuse the corner forward for wearing a gumshield and a pair of boots?

Lycra makes the most sense when you're cycling because it doesn't flap in the wind and it doesn't chafe. That's it.

Wolf Hanssen wrote: »

OP is just sad he doesnt look as sexy as me in lycra.

The gum shield and boots wouldn't quite cut it - but the lycra seems to be the equivalent of the cat's pyjamas for some. :rolleyes:

zeffabelli

On roundabouts they should behave like pedestrians, get off the bike and walk across with other pedestrians.

jamesbere

I think the easiest solution is to ban everyone from the roads.

Qualitymark

jamesbere wrote: »

I think the easiest solution is to ban everyone from the roads.

Microlights for all.

Pinch Flat

Qualitymark wrote: »

Microlights for all.

Flying cars. Can you imagine the mayhem.

Beasty

zeffabelli wrote: »

On roundabouts they should behave like pedestrians, get off the bike and walk across with other pedestrians.

Haha!

And what's your logic (or lack thereof) for that?

Do you think motorists should simply have free reign to cross such junctions without having to look out for cyclists on their bikes (as opposed to cyclists on their feet)?

Pinch Flat

Beasty wrote: »

Haha!

And what's your logic (or lack thereof) for that?

Do you think motorists should simply have free reign to cross such junctions without having to look out for cyclists on their bikes (as opposed to cyclists on their feet)?

I think motorists should get out and push their cars through roundabouts. Would cut down the amount of accidents anyway

Qualitymark

zeffabelli wrote: »

On roundabouts they should behave like pedestrians, get off the bike and walk across with other pedestrians.

But cyclists are not pedestrians.

The trouble with roundabouts in Ireland is that many drivers have no idea how to use them, and the signage on them is unbelievably bad.

When I used to drive, I was utterly terrified of the Cherry Tree roundabout in Walkinstown, because you had no idea what the other drivers intended to do. Some would enter, slow down, and creep around the left-hand side until they found their exit, then suddenly (without indicating, of course, or indicating as they turned, the most stupid, selfish and ignorant driving habit in Ireland) would whizz out that exit. Others would enter, zoom across the path of other traffic and hug the centre, then zoom across the traffic again when they came to their exit.

Then there are the many roundabouts circling Galway, named after the merchant 'Tribes' that once ruled the area. Locals may know what they're doing. For foreigners from Dublin, it's a matter of cringing your way through.

If drivers used the motorways sanely and responsibly, and drove carefully, remembering that ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine, there would be no danger to other drivers or to cyclists.

Pinch Flat

I read recently that Irish people use roundabouts like supermarket queues - just get in the shortest one, regardless whether you're going left, right or straight on

rubadub

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Middle aged men have to lose the lycra gear for sure.

What is your problem with the lycra? just the look of it? Do you similarly get upset seeing pedestrians wearing runners which professional athletes would wear?

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They also respect the traffic rules as cycling is ingrained in the Dutch culture.

really? not IME, though they have more sensible laws when it come to red lights in the first place. And better road layouts so they are less likely to be in a situation where they can actually break the law.

http://www.fastcoexist.com/3048776/in-paris-its-now-legal-for-bikers-to-run-the-red-lights-that-theyve-been-running-anyway

In the Netherlands, a utopia for bikes, the law makes drivers responsible for the safety of cyclists. One law, known as 185 WVW, is often translated as saying that drivers are always at fault in a collision between car and bike. While that’s not strictly true (it governs liability for financial damage in bike/car collisions), the law’s effect is similar: The driver will be liable unless he or she can prove the incident was caused by circumstances beyond their control.

And according to the Bicycle Dutch blog, bikes weaving through traffic and jumping red lights is not unexpected behavior, so the driver can’t use it as an excuse. Thus, the driver is to blame for just about anything that might happen.

That might be extreme, but more sensible, bike-focused laws would lead to cyclist obeying them more often. "When road design and traffic laws don’t respect bicycle riders, bicycle riders don’t respect them," says Maus. "Our car-centric system radicalizes bicycle riders because a survival mentality kicks in. It’s pretty basic human psychology."

http://www.holland-cycling.com/tips-and-info/safety/traffic-rules-and-regulations-for-cyclists

Am I allowed to cycle on the pavement?
No, you are not allowed to cycle on the pavement or through pedestrian areas - although many Dutch cyclists ignore this rule. Especially in city centres you risk a fine.

Do I have to stop for a red traffic light?
Yes, like in other countries all cyclists have to stop for a red traffic light. However, there is one exception. At traffic lights with the sign ‘Rechtsaf voor fietsers vrij’, cyclists turning right don’t have to wait for the light to turn green. Do look out for pedestrians that might be crossing the road as they have right of way.

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/cycling-past-red-lights-its-legal-in-the-netherlands/

So what is the situation in the Netherlands? Here it has been in the law since 1991** that road managers can allow cyclists to turn right on red if they put up a sign that says: “Rechtsaf voor fietsers vrij” (Free right turn for cyclists). But that is not all, in reality the Dutch can turn right on red and go through red at a T-junction at almost every bigger junction! This is possible because the Dutch (unlike the Danish) continue their separated cycle tracks at junctions. Their design facilitates going through the top of a T-junction or turning right without anyone really noticing it. No law was needed for it, nor any experiments. The nature of the design of the cycling infrastructure simply makes it possible in a very safe way. It is so common that even the Dutch themselves don’t realize this is how they do it.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Every day I hear loud horn blasts and see angry fists and middle fingers from frustrated motorists.

Yeah, many are frustrated that they cannot get through traffic at the same speed, I see them illegally beeping horns all the time, at all sorts of stuff. Many would beep simply because a law is been broken -not because anything dangerous is taking place, actions which sensible gardai would ignore as it is totally benign and not what the law set out to prevent. In many cases it is aiding the flow of traffic and making the road safer for both parties.

rolliepoley

These kind of threads do go on and on, when in fact the onus is on both parties to arrive home safely.

zeffabelli

Qualitymark wrote: »

But cyclists are not pedestrians.

The trouble with roundabouts in Ireland is that many drivers have no idea how to use them, and the signage on them is unbelievably bad.

When I used to drive, I was utterly terrified of the Cherry Tree roundabout in Walkinstown, because you had no idea what the other drivers intended to do. Some would enter, slow down, and creep around the left-hand side until they found their exit, then suddenly (without indicating, of course, or indicating as they turned, the most stupid, selfish and ignorant driving habit in Ireland) would whizz out that exit. Others would enter, zoom across the path of other traffic and hug the centre, then zoom across the traffic again when they came to their exit.

Then there are the many roundabouts circling Galway, named after the merchant 'Tribes' that once ruled the area. Locals may know what they're doing. For foreigners from Dublin, it's a matter of cringing your way through.

If drivers used the motorways sanely and responsibly, and drove carefully, remembering that ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine, there would be no danger to other drivers or to cyclists.

This is true- many cant use them...but many can. I have had to stop in the middle of a roundabout while waiting for a cuclist on MY LEFT HAND SIDE to pass before I can exit.... I've seen cyclists towing toddlers behind them in those carriages in the middle of round abouts during the school run.

Cherry tree roudabout is terrible...

Beasty

zeffabelli wrote: »

This is true- many cant use them...but many can. I have had to stop in the middle of a roundabout while waiting for a cuclist on MY LEFT HAND SIDE to pass before I can exit...

Did you overtake the cyclist on the roundabout before having to allow them to proceed?

Beasty

rolliepoley wrote: »

These kind of threads do go on and on,

Ah but they are entertaining, and also arguably support the view that cycling is good for your intelligence .....

rolliepoley

Beasty wrote: »

Ah but they are entertaining, and also arguably support the view that cycling is good for your intelligence .....

Like i say the onus is about having a brain.

Pinch Flat

Beasty wrote: »

Ah but they are entertaining, and also arguably support the view that cycling is good for your intelligence .....

I'm of the opinion that if a mandatory IQ test was required for a driving license, the roads would be very quiet

Beasty

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that if a mandatory IQ test was required for a driving license, the roads would be very quiet

You do appreciate that may destroy AH, don't you?



:pac: