Enda kenny

Hollister11

JustTheOne wrote: »

Property tax is a wealth tax.

Yea but everyone is paying this. Wealth tax, is a tax if your net worth if over €1M

aliveandkicking

Hollister11 wrote: »

Yea but everyone is paying this. Wealth tax, is a tax if your net worth if over €1M

Not everyone is paying property tax. The poorest in society can't afford to buy a house nor get approved for a mortgage. The LPT therefore exempts the poorest while those with the highest value properties pay the most. It's almost a perfect wealth tax. The Irish "Left" are against it though for some reason.

For Reals

Bulbous Salutation wrote: »

Kenny is a great leader. A social and economic Admin when it comes' to Government.

The government's figures and quality of life for the working poor seldom work in tandem.
He's a salesman and the ignorant are buying his blarney. And we've tits talking about the homeless living it up with their new houses and the spongers on the dole...

"Last week, a volunteer brought food to a desperate mother who had spent all her money on food for her baby, leaving nothing for herself."

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/starving-irish-people-pleading-for-food-from-soup-kitchen-as-last-resort-34139540.html

ancapailldorcha

For Reals wrote: »

He's a salesman and the ignorant are buying his blarney.

A lot of people will vote Fine Gael not because they "buy his blarney" but because they perceive them to be the least of several evils which is no small thing given the presence of Sinn Féin and Fianna Fail.

Permabear

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For Reals

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A lot of people will vote Fine Gael not because they "buy his blarney" but because they perceive them to be the least of several evils which is no small thing given the presence of Sinn Féin and Fianna Fail.

That's true and why I voted for him, but its also very sad and regretful.

ancapailldorcha

For Reals wrote: »

That's true and why I voted for him, but its also very sad and regretful.

Agreed. I suspect a lot of the people who voted for the Conservatives here last May felt the same way.

For Reals

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Or Job Bridge employed?
Living in a hostel would be homeless FYI. You'd be hard pressed to find a family choosing hostel life.

ezra_pound wrote: »

That's great news. Good to see people come to their senses. I hope there's many more like you over the next few months.

Not only has the government been very impressive but also Enda, as a Taoiseach, has been a real success.

Out of interest, what shifted you away from the lunatic fringe?

Away?

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And you've stats on this or is it just blarney? For years we've been reading about child poverty on the rise, more children going to bed hungry, homelessness on the rise. It's not really news, sadly.

Permabear

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johnny osbourne

enda is a great leader

ancapailldorcha

johnny osbourne wrote: »

enda is a great leader

Please read the charter before posting again. Soundbytes and one-liners aren't really what this forum is for.

For Reals

Permabear wrote: »

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So you've cited some definitions but no stats. Figured. Nice fudge.

How ever it's measured, it's rising.

Permabear

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For Reals

Permabear wrote: »

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I'm not missing the point. I'm disagreeing. On finding child poverty and homelessness is on the rise, consistently I don't question the measuring system as my first go to. As I stated how ever it's measured, it's been measured so for some time, and it's on the rise.
On the rise means increasing. All your Socio-Economic terminology can't fudge that.

We know figures can be massaged, but on the rise, consistently over many years, is an issue of great concern and cannot be side stepped by critiquing the measuring process.
You keep using taking part in sports or activities as a key measurement. How does that play into homeless figures?

And I suppose the UN's system is flawed too? Are you going to pull, how hungry is really hungry?

Ireland could face censure over child poverty
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1027/737734-child-poverty-united-nations/

Permabear

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For Reals

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'm quite sure they are being massaged. I'd be surprised if they weren't to some degree. My point; the figures are on the rise, consistently, over many years.
Will you be on here with the same blather when they are low?
The measuring system was not adjusted for this recent report.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

The measurement process was not created this month. People differ, organisations have different metrics they measure.

The representative body for 100 charities state child poverty is on the rise, in fact the UN understand it has more than doubled during the recession. There's no 'merely'. Can't see Kenny gathering the stats for them myself.

Figures are on the rise. You cite the measuring process all you like and any flaws you perceive. Use a piece of string and a Yoyo to measure it if suits you.
It's on the rise, doubled in under ten years. The definition does not take away that it has doubled.

Permabear

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Permabear

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For Reals

Permabear wrote: »

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That's because you dont understand or are chosing to side track at this point.

Regardless of how it's measured and taking into account all the figures issued to the public from all governments and organisation's are massaged one way or another, (this is common place, we know this). However these figures are arrived at, it is the same way they have been arrived at and measured for many many years.
These are the figures we use.
These are the figures that have doubled in under ten years.
Your response to this is to critique the measuring method, in an effort to dismiss the reports.
That's fine but does not take away the fact that the same metrics ten years ago, compared to the same metrics today, show child poverty has doubled.
That's simple math. If you disagree with the measurement process, fine but it's still double and the UN are concerned regardless, yet the economy is doing great? Go figure.

Ctrl Alt Delete

johnny osbourne wrote: »

enda is a great leader terrible liar

fixed your post for you

ancapailldorcha

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

fixed your post for you

This is not a news dump. Please try to be more constructive with your posting.

Permabear

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nagel

back to the main topic , as usual boards gets sidelined, according to the journal.ie http://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-army-atms-2413295-Oct2015/ Enda is now backtracking, the comment about anecdotes, page 3, could be correct as an anecdote can cover both lies and the truth as per the oxford dictionary, http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/anecdote , do you believe definition 1 or 1.1, from yesterdays' morning Ireland Richard Bruton seems to be in the 1.1 class likewise Michael Noonan, it will be interesting to see if the professor says anything,

JacquesSon

I've hated FG due to a family history for as long as I've been able to vote but I can't imagine voting for anyone else in the next election.

Pragmatism trumps all.

For Reals

JacquesSon wrote: »

I've hated FG due to a family history for as long as I've been able to vote but I can't imagine voting for anyone else in the next election.

Pragmatism trumps all.

He's a liar and his party more concerned with the books looking good then the peoples well being as long as they tax up.

The fact that history comes into it at all is bizarre, unless it's recent.
Bring back Eamon Dev Valera the fraudster?

BoJack Horseman

For Reals wrote: »

Bring back Eamon Dev Valera the fraudster?

You can check with the FF press office, but I think Dev is unlikely to run.

For Reals

More Fine Gael fun. The party that never stops.


Gardai send file to DPP on allegations of fraud and bribery against Fine Gael councillor

"The FG councillor, who has close links to Taoiseach Enda Kenny, has been accused of offering to help secure planning permission for another councillor, in exchange for stopping an investigation into the appointment of a senior local authority official.

The investigation centres on a 30-minute conversation between the two councillors, which was secretly recorded before being passed to gardai."

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-send-file-to-dpp-on-allegations-of-fraud-and-bribery-against-fine-gael-councillor-34158877.html

Long gone is the myth that FG have a clean house. Before anyone starts, morally, Fianna Fail have been written off so no amount of whatabout can deflect.
I find this kind of thing, should it be proven, is of bigger concern to the country than any other issue as it goes to the heart of our 'democracy'. So much for all the promises Enda, then he is a liar I suppose.

JustTheOne

For Reals wrote: »

More Fine Gael fun. The party that never stops.


Gardai send file to DPP on allegations of fraud and bribery against Fine Gael councillor

"The FG councillor, who has close links to Taoiseach Enda Kenny, has been accused of offering to help secure planning permission for another councillor, in exchange for stopping an investigation into the appointment of a senior local authority official.

The investigation centres on a 30-minute conversation between the two councillors, which was secretly recorded before being passed to gardai."

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-send-file-to-dpp-on-allegations-of-fraud-and-bribery-against-fine-gael-councillor-34158877.html

Long gone is the myth that FG have a clean house. Before anyone starts, morally, Fianna Fail have been written off so no amount of whatabout can deflect.
I find this kind of thing, should it be proven, is of bigger concern to the country than any other issue as it goes to the heart of our 'democracy'. So much for all the promises Enda, then he is a liar I suppose.

fg councillor has denied any wrong doing.

So just like everyone he is allowed a fair trial so can you pull your pants back up for the time being.

Ctrl Alt Delete

JustTheOne wrote: »

fg councillor has denied any wrong doing.

So just like everyone he is allowed a fair trial so can you pull your pants back up for the time being.

But yet SF and Gerry Adams can have all sorts of accusations thrown at them without fair trial ???

Lets be consistant here at least

For Reals

JustTheOne wrote: »

fg councillor has denied any wrong doing.

So just like everyone he is allowed a fair trial so can you pull your pants back up for the time being.

So you skipped the "should it be proven" part? Straight to the PR.
No debate just close ranks, nice.

Drumpot

The most disappointing aspect of this government was the potential for proper change of how things have been done wrong for so long in politics and the public service .. A huge missed opportunity and they chose the paths of least resistance out of self preservation at pretty much every junction.

Mistake one was promising so much at the last election. FF had done so much damage all the other parties has to say was that they weren't FF and that would of been enough to win a seat in most areas. But no, there had to be strong rhetoric BS that they would stand up to our paymasters and other crap.

This made it more difficult to implement proper reform because they were more busy trying to pander to all parties then implement real institutional reform.

The best that can be said about them is that they were good at following orders of our European masters. Then as soon as they get a chance to bring back Bertie economics, wham... We get a stereotypical FF bribe budget...

But never mind that. Things are great now and it's all down to the stewardship of a politician that's remained long enough in power to strongly represent everything bad that he used to highlight in the previous immoral, unethical government that he swore would not continue .. 5 more years... 5 more years...

BoJack Horseman

Drumpot wrote: »

The most disappointing aspect of this government was the potential for proper change of how things have been done wrong for so long in politics and the public service .. A huge missed opportunity and they chose the paths of least resistance

True..... Their 'reform' agenda was what the permanent government in Liberty Hall allowed them reform.

But worry not gents, just 6 months left to go.....

The SF/FF alternative government will cure all ills.

For Reals

Drumpot wrote: »

The most disappointing aspect of this government was the potential for proper change of how things have been done wrong for so long in politics and the public service .. A huge missed opportunity and they chose the paths of least resistance out of self preservation at pretty much every junction.

Mistake one was promising so much at the last election. FF had done so much damage all the other parties has to say was that they weren't FF and that would of been enough to win a seat in most areas. But no, there had to be strong rhetoric BS that they would stand up to our paymasters and other crap.

This made it more difficult to implement proper reform because they were more busy trying to pander to all parties then implement real institutional reform.

The best that can be said about them is that they were good at following orders of our European masters. Then as soon as they get a chance to bring back Bertie economics, wham... We get a stereotypical FF bribe budget...

But never mind that. Things are great now and it's all down to the stewardship of a politician that's remained long enough in power to strongly represent everything bad that he used to highlight in the previous immoral, unethical government that he swore would not continue .. 5 more years... 5 more years...

Agreed 100%
They may get back in based on spin but they will be way down on the last election for sure.

Also it would be nice for once if the go to critique of anything non-FG party didn't involve derisory fanciful comments about 'dem others what would be worser'. Heard the same during Fianna Fails last stint.

BoJack Horseman

For Reals wrote: »

Agreed 100%
They may get back in based on spin but they will be way down on the last election for sure.

Can you lay it out objectively what policies of the alternative government are superior to the incumbents?

Obviously we know that FG are evil etc.... But what is it about the policies of the SF/FG coalition that seem better for Ireland?

If you dislike "sure the others are worse" labels, you must know the alternative offer more?

Drumpot

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

For Reals wrote: »

Agreed 100%
They may get back in based on spin but they will be way down on the last election for sure.

Can you lay it out objectively what policies of the alternative government are superior to the incumbents?

Obviously we know that FG are evil etc.... But what is it about the policies of the SF/FG coalition that seem better for Ireland?

If you dislike "sure the others are worse" labels, you must know the alternative offer more?

Its not that FG are evil, its that they are no better then the previous FF party that many believe to be the worst government in the history of the state.



FG greatest "strength" in the last 4 years was doing what they were told by the EU paymasters. As soon as they have an opportunity to show that they learned from the previous FF failed budgetary policies, they have a bumper budget to buy an election. I don't think anybody, even their own supporters, could support that budget.



Our situation is so precarious and is dependent on the global markets continuing to improve. A more subtle budget would of given us more room for downturns.



I don't think anybody believes that there has been anything other then cosmetic change within the public service.



These are things FG have done, not the other parties. Its a straw man argument to suggest that the other parties are as bad because they didn't force FG to do or not do anything. They had one of the strongest mandates any Irish government had and they chose to engage in the exact same politics as the party before them.







FG share many of the same traits as the previous FF government. Cute hoorism politics, trying to buy elections, no real reform of public service, blind eye to possible corruption within their ranks and rampant cronyism.


The mere fact that the benchmark was set so low by FF, that the country has recovered under their tenure and that they will struggle to get back into power really says all you need to know about this government.

BoJack Horseman

Drumpot wrote: »

they are no better then the previous FF party that many believe to be the worst government in the history of the state.

And if I was to ask for empirical evidence of this, what would you provide?

Our situation is so precarious and is dependent on the global markets continuing to improve. A more subtle budget would of given us more room for downturns.

Last months budget adjustment amounted to 0.8% of GDP... In a year where GDP rose by over 5%.
Very modest.

So, again, what was it about the oppositions budget that you can objectively say was superior?
Was it the SP/AAA's default on €90,000,000,000 of national debt?
Was it SF's now annual list of tax rises?

no real reform of public service

And again.... What PS reform plans by the opposition did you find superior??
Please lay them out?
This would be particularly interesting for you to prove given the oppositions increasingly cosy relationship with the PS unions.

The biggest "reform" from the opposition I've seen was to actually increase the bloated PS, while cutting HSE consultants pay by 60%, to the devastation of the health services......
Reform?

Drumpot

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Drumpot wrote: »

they are no better then the previous FF party that many believe to be the worst government in the history of the state.

And if I was to ask for empirical evidence of this, what would you provide?

Our situation is so precarious and is dependent on the global markets continuing to improve. A more subtle budget would of given us more room for downturns.

Last months budget adjustment amounted to 0.8% of GDP... In a year where GDP rose by over 5%.
Very modest.

So, again, what was it about the oppositions budget that you can objectively say was superior?
Was it the SP/AAA's default on €90,000,000,000 of national debt?
Was it SF's now annual list of tax rises?

no real reform of public service

And again.... What PS reform plans by the opposition did you find superior??
Please lay them out?
This would be particularly interesting for you to prove given the oppositions increasingly cosy relationship with the PS unions.

The biggest "reform" from the opposition I've seen was to actually increase the bloated PS, while cutting HSE consultants pay by 60%, to the devastation of the health services......
Reform?

Its a pretty weak effort to benchmark them against the opposition that constitutes "reformed" gangsters and the politicians that presided over the worst economic crash in the history of the state.



If you think its a defence to say "well we aren't as bad as the other crowd", it only further highlights the lack of political will to implement real reform of any kind both politically and institutionally.

You can spin the budgetary figures anyway you like (you do know that is just spin, the figures you quoted?!), but the FACT is that those figures don't count for anything if the world market takes a plunge. We are still heavily in debt and once again you are benchmarking us on a level that doesn't factor in the variables that Ireland cannot control. We can control what we spend, we cannot control the rest of the world markets.

I think the dogs on the street could forward a reform plan for the PS, but its clear no political party have the will or vision to tackle this beast. Its not excusing FG by saying "well what plan have the others got", it only shows that they are no different in their approach.

BoJack Horseman

Drumpot wrote: »

Its a pretty weak effort to benchmark them against the opposition that constitutes "reformed" gangsters and the politicians that presided over the worst economic crash in the history of the state.

Silly.

I can hardly benchmark the government against batman & Morgan Freeman can I?

I mean, would you prefer me to benchmark our government against another opposition from another country?
Its quite ridiculous to consider comparing the government to the opposition as a "weak effort".... there is no one else to benchmark the government against!

Again, it's an extremely simple question....
If the government is so terrible, what is it about the opposition (the only opposition we have!) that is superior?

You can spin the budgetary figures anyway you like

Please point out factual error.

Again.... very simple... if the FG budget was so bad....
What party's budget plan was superior!?

its clear no political party have the will or vision to tackle this beast. Its not excusing FG by saying "well what plan have the others got", it only shows that they are no different in their approach.

So, you that penny drops.
PS reform starts & ends where the permanent government in Liberty hall allow it to.
Its encouraging to see you acknowledge that the opposition are certainly no better, if not worse.

You are making one thing obvious....
T.I.N.A!

ezra_pound

Drumpot wrote: »

Its a pretty weak effort to benchmark them against the opposition that constitutes "reformed" gangsters and the politicians that presided over the worst economic crash in the history of the state.



If you think its a defence to say "well we aren't as bad as the other crowd", it only further highlights the lack of political will to implement real reform of any kind both politically and institutionally.

You can spin the budgetary figures anyway you like (you do know that is just spin, the figures you quoted?!), but the FACT is that those figures don't count for anything if the world market takes a plunge. We are still heavily in debt and once again you are benchmarking us on a level that doesn't factor in the variables that Ireland cannot control. We can control what we spend, we cannot control the rest of the world markets.

I think the dogs on the street could forward a reform plan for the PS, but its clear no political party have the will or vision to tackle this beast. Its not excusing FG by saying "well what plan have the others got", it only shows that they are no different in their approach.

Well hang on there a minute.

You're the one who benchmarked this government in relation to the last. You stated that this fg lab gov is no better than the last which is frankly not credible under any circumstances.

This government are proving to be possibly the best in the history of the state.

The Cowen administration on the other hand...

Godge

Drumpot wrote: »

I think the dogs on the street could forward a reform plan for the PS, but its clear no political party have the will or vision to tackle this beast. Its not excusing FG by saying "well what plan have the others got", it only shows that they are no different in their approach.

Well if the dogs on the street can do it, maybe you could set out your reform plan for the public service. Will make interesting reading at least.

Drumpot

Each party is as bad as the other and the political culture that still exists from the FF is evident for all to see. The FACT that FG will struggle to get into power and that independents are getting stronger, proves that people don't believe the spin.

Drumpot

Godge wrote: »

Drumpot wrote: »

I think the dogs on the street could forward a reform plan for the PS, but its clear no political party have the will or vision to tackle this beast. Its not excusing FG by saying "well what plan have the others got", it only shows that they are no different in their approach.

Well if the dogs on the street can do it, maybe you could set out your reform plan for the public service. Will make interesting reading at least.

Nothing that hasn't been thrown out on these forums countless times. For a start accountability for ones roll would help. Speaking to people who work within and private entitys that have to work with public service bodys its easy to see how horribly incompetent many of the managers and structures within the service waste so much at the cost to the public. I also know that most managers take zero responsibility and have zero discipline applied. An external body reviewing and managing an overhaul would be a start . . Ah but sure how do they do that without strikes ? Nobody said it wasn't going to be easy, but FG have taken zero tough choices in this regard.

Drumpot

ezra_pound wrote: »

Drumpot wrote: »

Its a pretty weak effort to benchmark them against the opposition that constitutes "reformed" gangsters and the politicians that presided over the worst economic crash in the history of the state.



If you think its a defence to say "well we aren't as bad as the other crowd", it only further highlights the lack of political will to implement real reform of any kind both politically and institutionally.

You can spin the budgetary figures anyway you like (you do know that is just spin, the figures you quoted?!), but the FACT is that those figures don't count for anything if the world market takes a plunge. We are still heavily in debt and once again you are benchmarking us on a level that doesn't factor in the variables that Ireland cannot control. We can control what we spend, we cannot control the rest of the world markets.

I think the dogs on the street could forward a reform plan for the PS, but its clear no political party have the will or vision to tackle this beast. Its not excusing FG by saying "well what plan have the others got", it only shows that they are no different in their approach.

Well hang on there a minute.

You're the one who benchmarked this government in relation to the last. You stated that this fg lab gov is no better than the last which is frankly not credible under any circumstances.

This government are proving to be possibly the best in the history of the state.

The Cowen administration on the other hand...

Are you taking the piss? Best in the state ? What decisions have they (not the troika) done to deserve that title? They have been caretakers for the majority of their tenure. Its akin to the unremarkable schoolchild who is extremely good at taking instructions from the teacher.



Peoples major defence of this government seems to be "what have the others got to offer". FF and SF are poor alternatives which is the only reason FG have a remote chance in this election. Why do you think the people of Ireland think so little of Kenny and FG? To suggest its because he presided over austerity is to presume that the electorate are completely fickle. the same electorate that voted them in the first place . .

Ctrl Alt Delete

ezra_pound wrote: »

Well hang on there a minute.

You're the one who benchmarked this government in relation to the last. You stated that this fg lab gov is no better than the last which is frankly not credible under any circumstances.

This government are proving to be possibly the best in the history of the state.

The Cowen administration on the other hand...

While no one will disagree with Cowens administration being terrible to say this government is the best in the history of the State is a complete fallacy.

Like it or lump it FF / PDs / Greens have done a he'll of a lot for the infrastructure of this country in addition to things like Good Friday and everything else in between. Not to mention all the other Governments who had to steer through very turbelent times.

The only things of note from FG/Lab has been to follow the agreement that FF agreed with the Troika, the Irish Water catastrophe,the Marriage Equality legislation and bowing to handlers in Germany not forgetting of course the laughable fairy tales from Enda in between

Floppybits

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

While no one will disagree with Cowens administration being terrible to say this government is the best in the history of the State is a complete fallacy.

Like it or lump it FF / PDs / Greens have done a he'll of a lot for the infrastructure of this country in addition to things like Good Friday and everything else in between. Not to mention all the other Governments who had to steer through very turbelent times.

The only things of note from FG/Lab has been to follow the agreement that FF agreed with the Troika, the Irish Water catastrophe,the Marriage Equality legislation and bowing to handlers in Germany not forgetting of course the laughable fairy tales from Enda in between

Don't forget the treatment FG gave the garda whistlblowers, allowing a Garda white wash and the "sacking" of the Garda Commissioner. I'm not fan of the other parties but FG for the last 5 years in government have done nothing but embroil themselves in scandal after scandal. They have been nothing but an abject failure, all they had to do was not be FF and they would have walked this election but they couldn't even do that.

Godge

Drumpot wrote: »

Nothing that hasn't been thrown out on these forums countless times. For a start accountability for ones roll would help. Speaking to people who work within and private entitys that have to work with public service bodys its easy to see how horribly incompetent many of the managers and structures within the service waste so much at the cost to the public. I also know that most managers take zero responsibility and have zero discipline applied. An external body reviewing and managing an overhaul would be a start . . Ah but sure how do they do that without strikes ? Nobody said it wasn't going to be easy, but FG have taken zero tough choices in this regard.

There is accountability and reform. Here is the current plan and progress reports under it.

http://reformplan.per.gov.ie/

Maybe, given your vast knowledge and experience, you would point out how this plan should be improved/changed/amended?

It is easy to post a soundbite about public sector reform, it is much harder to explain what you mean and even harder again to deliver it.

Drumpot

Godge wrote: »

There is accountability and reform. Here is the current plan and progress reports under it.

http://reformplan.per.gov.ie/

Maybe, given your vast knowledge and experience, you would point out how this plan should be improved/changed/amended?

It is easy to post a soundbite about public sector reform, it is much harder to explain what you mean and even harder again to deliver it.

Actually, I am just calling it how it is and I believe most people feel the same way. Its hard to believe that this government would find it so difficult to convince people of its competency considering the state the country was in when it took over.

Nobody is saying it would be easy, but this government had a ridiculously strong mandate and were taking the reigns from such a low level, its impossible to fathom how they could be so unpopular when you factor in the remarkable recovery.

I don't have all the answers and don't pretend to, but its clear that the systematic reform that was desperately needed has not happened. How do I know? Admittedly anecdotal, but as a businessman who provides advice to public servants and major companies who have to work with large public service departments, there is certainly zero evidence thus far that any "reform" supposedly acted has yielded tangible benefits.

There is no accountability within the public service, certainly not at the higher end of the scale. There is zero responsibility taken by anybody at these levels.

That's just scratching the surface and one facet that needs to be radically tackled.

If it was easy to reform it would be done, but this is my point. This government consistently takes the easy, politically popular choices unless it forced not to. When you have politicians who are teachers and people who have zero real life business experience, its not surprising that they hide behind reports and PR tools to try and convince people that they are making progress.

I know for a fact that a business proposal was put to the previous minister for health. It would of saved the taxpayer over 40million a year, freed up over 100 beds in hospitals and provided the proper rehabilitation for the patients in long term hospital care. It didn't happen because of red tape. The minister was aware and the hospitals didn't want to lose any control. Since I cannot prove this happened , you can easily dismiss it, but I have personally seen little from this government that suggests they have any particularly qualities that provide proof they engage in progressive political strategies that aren't focused on simply furthering their own interest.

While our electorate is as fickle as every other, I don't think its completely stupid. Most people saw the recent budget as a con and very few professionals thought it was progressive or helpful. There are few examples of this government making anything other then populist decisions, other then when the Troika forced austerity. Considering the country is doing so well after such a torrid time, why do you think the government is struggling popularity wise?

Godge

Drumpot wrote: »

I know for a fact that a business proposal was put to the previous minister for health. It would of saved the taxpayer over 40million a year, freed up over 100 beds in hospitals and provided the proper rehabilitation for the patients in long term hospital care. It didn't happen because of red tape. The minister was aware and the hospitals didn't want to lose any control. Since I cannot prove this happened , you can easily dismiss it, but I have personally seen little from this government that suggests they have any particularly qualities that provide proof they engage in progressive political strategies that aren't focused on simply furthering their own interest.

There are a lot of ideas like that put to ministers every year, but once they involve any possibility of profit for the private company suggesting it, they become subject to procurement and state aid rules. What happens next is that the company backs away as they know that in an open competition, their sweetheart deal would be undercut and they blame red tape for stopping their project.

We saw this with the Siemens proposal for free water meters which would have committed the State to a very expensive maintenance contract for thirty years. All of these kinds of proposal come with hidden costs.

Drumpot

Godge wrote: »

There are a lot of ideas like that put to ministers every year, but once they involve any possibility of profit for the private company suggesting it, they become subject to procurement and state aid rules. What happens next is that the company backs away as they know that in an open competition, their sweetheart deal would be undercut and they blame red tape for stopping their project.

We saw this with the Siemens proposal for free water meters which would have committed the State to a very expensive maintenance contract for thirty years. All of these kinds of proposal come with hidden costs.

I can accept that this may very well be the case, but would you accept that there is a chance (without either of us knowing the specifics of this example) that it was plain old beauracracy?

You see, I am not in any party camp, I do believe that the culture in politics is putrid and anybody within the game is more then likely corrupted by this cesspool. It would be very hard not to fall into line with the shallow practises of garnering votes. Few people see any difference between this government and the last and no amount of government websites highlighting the things they have done will change that.

There seems to be a great delusion, certainly among supporters of parties/candidates, that its all just part of the game. Few stick out as individuals or revolutionists in the sense of changing things. Stephen Donnelly is the closest I have seen, but in opposition its always easier to throw mud and be honest, so I would have to concede that even he has question marks over his motives.

People wanted clear reform that they could clearly identify and that doesn't appear to be the case. People also hoped that FG/Lab would use their mandate to change the political culture and I don't get the impression that anybody feels that's the case, this recent budget being the perfect example. Even the hardcore FG/Lab supporters have to admit that , behind all the PR, this budget looks like a bribe to the electorate.

Given how bad things were when this government took over and how well things are going now, its odd that this government is not a shoe in for the next election. I ask you again why do you think that Kenny and the government are so unpopular, given how much some people feel they have done for the country ?

Shurimgreat

To be honest, 90% of people judge political parties based on how well they do on economics. They judge Fianna Fail that way, Sinn Fein, even Labour that way as well as Fine Gael.

Fine Gael have managed to stabilise the national finances, and turn around the economy.

I think everything else apart from that is pretty irrelevant.

Does Kenny have a habit of putting his foot in it? yes of course. Does that make him a bad Taoiseach. No it doesn't.

Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen were loved by the Irish media for years and years. Cowan was called a political heavyweight, Bertie was treated like a messiah. Bertie saved the peace process or so we were told time and time again.
The pair of them were hopeless on the economy though, which is what really matters at the end of the day.

Its actions not words that counts.