I hate the M50 [Warning post #222]

duffman3833

jd wrote: »

A fixed toll of say 1.50 at the point of entry.

Would be more fair as lot of people use it and don't have to go through the toll.

Idbatterim

The outer ring road needs to be built which has been considered but put on the back burner.

Given that these morons allowed planning on DU to lapse and have decided to waste another half decade on a new inferior metro north scheme, to "save" pocket change. I dont see how an outer ring road is likely any time soon. Sure wouldnt the cost be fairly staggering? It would be a hell of a lot longer than the M50...

Seth Brundle

duffman3833 wrote: »

Would be more fair as lot of people use it and don't have to go through the toll.

Why have a toll at all? Is it for revenue generating or is it to deter some people from using the bridge/Road?
If you want to reduce numbers using the road by tolling, what alternative will they use?
If the only purpose it's to pay for maintenance and upgrading then why not toll other roads (and maybe even get rid of motor tax)?

HiGlo

I don't really get how reducing the speed limit eases congestion??
As it is there's so much traffic on the M50 at peak times that you don't get much beyond 60-80kmph anyway........

I just don't get it.

_Kaiser_

HiGlo wrote: »

I don't really get how reducing the speed limit eases congestion??
As it is there's so much traffic on the M50 at peak times that you don't get much beyond 60-80kmph anyway........

I just don't get it.

It won't make any difference when the traffic is heaviest (which is when the problems are) but it'll likely make them a few quid when they leave the limits stupidly low before/afterwards from people "speeding"

As usual in Ireland it's easier to bring in new nonsensical laws/rules than enforce the existing ones - in this case ones related to lane discipline, general muppetry such as tailgating and lane weaving etc

HiGlo

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As usual in Ireland it's easier to bring in new nonsensical laws/rules than enforce the existing ones - in this case ones related to lane discipline, general muppetry such as tailgating and lane weaving etc

Soooo true!!
The way people drive on the M50 is a joke.

kidneyfan

kbannon wrote: »

Why have a toll at all?

We have a toll so that Tom Roche senior could get paid. Who he paid to get paid is another story.

http://bocktherobber.com/2011/03/political-corruption-in-ireland/

RainyDay

duffman3833 wrote: »

Typical Ireland

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/09/23/typical-ireland-says-man-regardless-of-what-he-is-complaining-about/

HiGlo

HiGlo wrote: »

I don't really get how reducing the speed limit eases congestion??
As it is there's so much traffic on the M50 at peak times that you don't get much beyond 60-80kmph anyway........

I just don't get it.

The variable limits are really there to stop the "glugging" of traffic when fast moving vehicles come up to congestion and rapidly slow down to a much slower speed than necessary.
This often causes the start-stop we're all familiar with, by slowing traffic earlier, the average speed actually rises and drivers are less stressed by the constantly changing speed.

errlloyd

Big crashes are almost daily on the m50, on average I'm sure I end up spending 2 hours per week or more in the car because of them. (this week more already). If speed limits fix that great.

First Up

errlloyd wrote: »

Big crashes are almost daily on the m50, on average I'm sure I end up spending 2 hours per week or more in the car because of them. (this week more already). If speed limits fix that great.

They should help but the main reason is crap driving.

marno21

First Up wrote: »

They should help but the main reason is crap driving.

And the Gardai believing that 'speed' is the root cause of all crashes and therefore the only rule of the road worth enforing.

Lane discipline, driving across hatch markings, driving on the phone while wandering across lanes.. not dangerous at all

Arbiter of Good Taste

marno21 wrote: »

And the Gardai believing that 'speed' is the root cause of all crashes and therefore the only rule of the road worth enforing.

Lane discipline, driving across hatch markings, driving on the phone while wandering across lanes.. not dangerous at all

There's also a lot of cars out there that appear to have broken indicators :rolleyes:

Dr_Bill

Idbatterim wrote: »

Given that these morons allowed planning on DU to lapse and have decided to waste another half decade on a new inferior metro north scheme, to "save" pocket change. I dont see how an outer ring road is likely any time soon. Sure wouldnt the cost be fairly staggering? It would be a hell of a lot longer than the M50...

I couldn't disagree with you there about the government but what's sorely lacking is good solid strategic thinking for the long term and that's not four year blocks between elections either. Commissioning reports is a good excuse to waste money and kick the can down the road and do nothing.

Borrowing money to invest in the countries infrastructure will pay back in dividends and provide a good stream of employment when it is badly needed.

Seth Brundle

Dr_Bill wrote: »

Borrowing money to invest in the countries infrastructure will pay back in dividends and provide a good stream of employment when it is badly needed.

What investments do you propose? Expanding the motorway? Provide alternative and more frequent public transport routes?
Part of our problems in the past have been politics affiliated with construction. Transport policy was always skewed in favour of political allegiances rather than the common good. many shopping centres have been built around the M50, many with free parking. Why would you drive (never mind get the bus) into the city centre?
The cost of public transport has increased in recent years to the point that it is not significantly different to the cost of driving. That's madness.

If we are to have a sustainable transport network around Dublin, then people need to get out of their cars during busy periods.

Macy0161

kbannon wrote: »

The cost of public transport has increased in recent years to the point that it is not significantly different to the cost of driving. That's madness.

If we are to have a sustainable transport network around Dublin, then people need to get out of their cars during busy periods.

With the carrot of top public transport infrastructure, they could introduce sticks to counteract that, like congestion charging.

The problem is actually the mindset of a significant proportion of the electorate rather than the politicians imo. All we hear from commentators/ vox pops outside of the greater Dublin area is "what about us/ all the spending in Dublin". It's a minefield for the politicians, of all parties, to be fair. They should still have the balls to do it and be damned though!

It does have to be a greater Dublin thing though. Addressing the problem at the M50 is too far in. It needs addressing with options in the commuter belt. I'll take my own route, the M/N11. It's options from Wicklow Town, Arklow even Gorey that are needed. A solution within the M50 is too far in to have the impact.

Mantis Toboggan

Rubber necking should be an automatic 2 point penalty!

uck51js9zml2yt

Took it this morning and had forgotten how bad rush hour was.
An hour from Cabra to rathfarnham with inexplicable stopping on the way.

Seth Brundle

Macy0161 wrote: »

It does have to be a greater Dublin thing though. Addressing the problem at the M50 is too far in. It needs addressing with options in the commuter belt.

I don't disagree with you.
However, we need a massive mindset change (including high-rise). But the politicians do tend to pander to public opinion rather than the long term public good.
Nonetheless, it has to start somewhere and in my view a few things need to be done in tandem:
* peak hours motorway entry tolling and/or congestion charging
* a huge revamp in public transport (not necessarily just Dublin Bus but also allowing more private operators have routes)
* overhaul of the driver education system with re-testing every five years

Dr_Bill

kbannon wrote: »

What investments do you propose? Expanding the motorway? Provide alternative and more frequent public transport routes?

An outer ring for example connecting the M1 north of Swords across to the M2 near Ashbourne them across to the M3 south of Dunshaughlin over to the M4 near Maynooth and then onto the N7 near Naas and perhaps then across to the N81 near Manor Kilbride and over finally to the N11.

The commuter towns need to be connected up, also if you want to travel for example from Ashbourne to Naas currently the obvious choice is to use the M50 unless you want to take across country. It shouldn't be this way.

The project could be delivered in stages to spread the cost in conjunction with PPP options looked at.

Our rail network is undeveloped, park and ride options around the M50 are almost non-existent with the exception of the Red Cow perhaps. There is plenty of scope to develop sustainable transport solutions.

Mantis Toboggan

Dr_Bill wrote: »

An outer ring for example connecting the M1 north of Swords across to the M2 near Ashbourne them across to the M3 south of Dunshaughlin over to the M4 near Maynooth and then onto the N7 near Naas and perhaps then across to the N81 near Manor Kilbride and over finally to the N11.

The commuter towns need to be connected up, also if you want to travel for example from Ashbourne to Naas currently the obvious choice is to use the M50 unless you want to take across country. It shouldn't be this way.

That's a good idea. Also need 3 lanes on the M7 until the M9. Join up the luas and extend it to the commuter towns.

Will never happen though.

Seth Brundle

Dr_Bill wrote: »

An outer ring for example connecting the M1 north of Swords across to the M2 near Ashbourne them across to the M3 south of Dunshaughlin over to the M4 near Maynooth and then onto the N7 near Naas and perhaps then across to the N81 near Manor Kilbride and over finally to the N11.

The commuter towns need to be connected up, also if you want to travel for example from Ashbourne to Naas currently the obvious choice is to use the M50 unless you want to take across country. It shouldn't be this way.

The project could be delivered in stages to spread the cost in conjunction with PPP options looked at.

Our rail network is undeveloped, park and ride options around the M50 are almost non-existent with the exception of the Red Cow perhaps. There is plenty of scope to develop sustainable transport solutions.

Tyson Fury wrote: »

That's a good idea. Also need 3 lanes on the M7 until the M9. Join up the luas and extend it to the commuter towns.

Will never happen though.

Both ideas focus on car based transport. As a petrolhead, I'd favour this. However, it is not sustainable.
If people had better forms for mass movement, then the M50 would not be so congested so frequently. Having an outer orbital route would then make far less sense.

Alkers

Dr_Bill wrote: »

The commuter towns need to be connected up, also if you want to travel for example from Ashbourne to Naas currently the obvious choice is to use the M50 unless you want to take across country. It shouldn't be this way.
.

Far more efficient to use proper public transport to cater for the short-hop M50 commutes and then let someone who wants to travel from Ashbourne to Naas (who will likely be using their car anyway) to use the M50, with significantly reduces traffic volumes.

hmmm

kbannon wrote: »

Both ideas focus on car based transport. As a petrolhead, I'd favour this. However, it is not sustainable.

True. We could build ever more roads, and they'll just fill up - particularly as in many cases it will encourage people to leave public transport and move to cars.

We have to make public transport attractive, reliable, safe in the first place. Once we've done that we will know how much road space is truly needed.

Dirty, cramped, uncomfortable buses which mostly run to and from the city centre are the main PT option for most of Dublin, and that's simply not acceptable. Nor is allowing the Red Line LUAS to be seen as "unsafe". We need a strategy that looks forward 10/20 years into the future, and not a Minister proudly telling us he has bought a few extra buses every year.

_Kaiser_

Dr_Bill wrote: »

An outer ring for example .......... and then onto the N7 near Naas

Too far north. The problem on the M7 start at the M9 interchange. That's where I'd link an outer ring myself

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Also need 3 lanes on the M7 until the M9.

Not really. I travel the road daily and my experience is that most of the issues are caused by idiots dawdling, refusing to move left, tailgating etc.

If people drove properly on this stretch then 2 lanes would be sufficient, considering similar carry-on further up on the 3-lane stretch of the N7 effectively reduces it to a 2 lane road as well.

Mantis Toboggan

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Too far north. The problem on the M7 start at the M9 interchange. That's where I'd link an outer ring myself



Not really. I travel the road daily and my experience is that most of the issues are caused by idiots dawdling, refusing to move left, tailgating etc.

If people drove properly on this stretch then 2 lanes would be sufficient, considering similar carry-on further up on the 3-lane stretch of the N7 effectively reduces it to a 2 lane road as well.

You'll always have people who can't resist changing lanes. dawdling or whatever so this isn't likely to change.

For me the bottleneck starts before Naas when the convert 3 lanes into 2. No improvement in driving habits will solve this, its carrying the traffic of two motorways (M7 M9) in two lanes. Friday evenings are a disgrace. Also It's only going to get worse as more and more cars are on the road.

_Kaiser_

Tyson Fury wrote: »

For me the bottleneck starts before Naas when the convert 3 lanes into 2. No improvement in driving habits will solve this, its carrying the traffic of two motorways (M7 M9) in two lanes. Friday evenings are a disgrace. Also It's only going to get worse as more and more cars are on the road.

I agree with you on Fridays.. I left the office at half 3 a few weeks ago and it still took me an hour to get to Naas. Usually I just start/finish later but I'm lucky - not everyone has that option.

It is stupid that you have one motorway (regardless of it being 2 or 3 lanes) as the primary route for so many key destinations (Carlow, Waterford, Cork, Limerick etc). Ideally you'd have an M81 as well and maybe decent motorway-grade links/interchanges from it to the M7 and even M4/6.

Tarabuses

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

There's also a lot of cars out there that appear to have broken indicators :rolleyes:

You've noticed that too?

Funnily you will often see them start to work again at inappropriate times (like driving around a bend!).

Idbatterim

I couldn't disagree with you there about the government but what's sorely lacking is good solid strategic thinking for the long term and that's not four year blocks between elections either. Commissioning reports is a good excuse to waste money and kick the can down the road and do nothing.

Borrowing money to invest in the countries infrastructure will pay back in dividends and provide a good stream of employment when it is badly needed.

We hear all about their BS with the planning and long term thinking etc, these words coming from these snakes with vision that ends at their noses, actually f**cks me off no end.

A few months ago a decision was made to go for cheaper inferior options that would have Dublin crippled with traffic for another half decade minimum. Several months, SEVERAL MONTHS later those decisions have shown to be total and utter jokes to everyone, if that wasnt obvious already. This is for projects that will serve the city for decades!

This will be one of the issues I will be tearing them apart on when they come knocking or I see them out and about looking for votes! Its really time they got serious on REAL issues, not simply think they can get away with throwing a few euro in our pockets every budget and seeing it as job done!

whosedaddy?

There was an article on breakingnews the other week, saying that last years traffic increase on the M50 was nearly 7% (and over 10% since 2013), while figures from the European Commission show that on average, traffic grows at between 0.6% and 1% per annum.

When the M50 was widened, I bet the underlying projections were based on those low EC numbers.

Every road infrastructure projects over the last few years has removed bottlenecks leading to the M50. Like the N4 or N7 flyovers, leading to more bottlenecks on the M50 itself.
The natural step to improve traffic on M50 would be improve the routes flowing off the M50. Like Ballymount onramps being probably the single biggest contributor to the average daily congestion. (both north- and southbound)
But doing that will also most likely only move the bottleneck somewhere else.