I hate the M50 [Warning post #222]

cython

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Finally the attitude in this country seems to be if there's an accident on the roads, the specifics of the accident are never discussed. The news report will generally read, a single vehicle crash: one killed. It will never tell you the driver was drunk, tired, on the phone, joyriding, in a vehicle that wasn't road worthy or wasn't paying care and attention. The end result of this is that people say - this was an accident, could happen to anyone, and move on. Most importantly, no lessons are learned.

With all due respect, the majority of factors you list above could be grounds for a criminal prosecution if they were determined to have contributed, and publishing most of them in any reports could be viewed as prejudicing any potential prosecution. Joyriding tends to be the exception, as usually it's done in stolen cars and the cars have been reported as stolen already. Realistically if it gets as far as a prosecution, then it generally comes to light at that point, but in many instances most people have forgotten about the incident by that stage. Never mind that these incidents are usually reported the same day and not given much media follow up, and most of what you've outlined is unlikely to have been confirmed, and even less likely to have been publicised, that soon after the incident.

Perhaps not an ideal situation, but human nature is such that if there were extensive and detailed follow up given to all RTCs once reported in the media over the course of weeks, it would soon be ignored/fall to the back of people's minds anyway.

kbannon wrote: »

With respect, neither of these two had any involvement or responsibility in the incident at the M50/N4 interchange.
Why bother mention them?


Why, what kind of thing are you talking about?
The junction was developed a few years ago, long, long after Lawlor, Redmond et al were operating around here.

Yes, they had moved on before construction, but their "legacy" has imposed significant constraints on how the N4/M50 junction can actually be constructed - just look at how close the likes of the shopping centre come to it now. Without corrupt development there could potentially have been a lot more space for a properly and effectively designed junction, rather than the compromised mess currently present.

magicbastarder

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The news report ... will never tell you the driver was drunk, tired, on the phone, joyriding, in a vehicle that wasn't road worthy or wasn't paying care and attention

to expand on what cython said; this is a ludicrous criticism. in the same way that the news report cannot mention 'there was an armed robbery in a bank of ireland today, and these are the main suspects'. we (thankfully) cannot name people in public as being criminals without first going through due process.

Alun

It happens in Germany. If a driver tested positive for alcohol or drugs after an accident, for example, then they'll say so.

Larbre34

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Finally the attitude in this country seems to be if there's an accident on the roads, the specifics of the accident are never discussed. The news report will generally read, a single vehicle crash: one killed. It will never tell you the driver was drunk, tired, on the phone, joyriding, in a vehicle that wasn't road worthy or wasn't paying care and attention. The end result of this is that people say - this was an accident, could happen to anyone, and move on. Most importantly, no lessons are learned.

Rubbish.

The news media can hardly report the cause of an accident on the same day, when it takes months of investigation and often a legal inquest before that is determined. All that can be mentioned is the ambient conditions at the time, or the time of day and whether they may have been a contributor.

Lessons are always learned from accidents. There is a huge local and national gathering of statistics and specifics relating to accident data, they inform everything from planning approvals to design standards as well as the investigations into the accidents themselves.

You don't think the road fatality figure in this Country fell by more than 50% in the preceding decade by coincidence do you?

magicbastarder

Alun wrote: »

It happens in Germany. If a driver tested positive for alcohol or drugs after an accident, for example, then they'll say so.

yep, if a legal determination like that is possible and is made, the media can report on it. but there's no legal determination of 'the driver was driving without due care and attention' possible within the timeline of the reporting of the accident itself.

jwwb

Larbre34 wrote: »

Rubbish.

The news media can hardly report the cause of an accident on the same day, when it takes months of investigation and often a legal inquest before that is determined. All that can be mentioned is the ambient conditions at the time, or the time of day and whether they may have been a contributor.

Lessons are always learned from accidents. There is a huge local and national gathering of statistics and specifics relating to accident data, they inform everything from planning approvals to design standards as well as the investigations into the accidents themselves.

You don't think the road fatality figure in this Country fell by more than 50% in the preceding decade by coincidence do you?

Would be curious to know what the %age is of being right on the first examination. In any case the word "alleged" seems to cover all eventualities in the press with court cases.

There is a much higher impact if people would know fairly immediately why something had happened rather than hearing about it months or years later

BohsCeltic

Heroditas wrote: »

Similar insofar as the merge is quite short but there is absolutely no justification as to why a car can't be at an appropriate motorway speed by the time it merges. They are going downhill to merge and they haven't had to handle a sharp corkscrew turn before it.

Well it's changed now.
I didn't notice it yesterday as traffic was bumper to bumper.

I was coming off the N4 going Northbound earlier and as soon as i entered inside lane a car from lane 2 pulled straight across in front of me causing me to jam on.
Some people are just clueless

I for one will be glad to see the back of the "suicide lane" (short merge lane), how the hell they were ever approved in the first place really says something about the people who run this country.

oppenheimer1

Larbre34 wrote: »

Rubbish.

The news media can hardly report the cause of an accident on the same day, when it takes months of investigation and often a legal inquest before that is determined. All that can be mentioned is the ambient conditions at the time, or the time of day and whether they may have been a contributor.

Lessons are always learned from accidents. There is a huge local and national gathering of statistics and specifics relating to accident data, they inform everything from planning approvals to design standards as well as the investigations into the accidents themselves.

You don't think the road fatality figure in this Country fell by more than 50% in the preceding decade by coincidence do you?

Of course they can. Do you really think that RTA investigations go on for months? The investigation is wrapped up in a few hours then the report is written. There is no reason why it cannot be reported at the time as a preliminary finding: i.e. "The preliminary indications are that this crash was caused by the driver driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions". This is particularly in the case of a single vehicle incident where the circumstances are that there is obviously not going to be a prosecution.

endacl

I love the m50. Granted, I never use it in rush hour. Home in Firhouse to work in ballyfermot in 20 minutes. Sometimes 3-4 minutes more. Sometimes 3-4 minutes less. Add an extra few if I stop for a coffee.

The m50 rocks. You'd swear they'd built it for me.

mcgovern

Sounds like it's going to be another like evening:
"Emergency services are dealing with a multi-vehicle collision on the M50 northbound at J11 Tallaght. It's blocking the middle and right lanes and traffic is slow on approach from J13 Sandyford."

RainyDay

Not sure if this is the same incident mentioned above


https://twitter.com/JTUrbanDesign/status/665206051004903424

Victor

Kimura wrote: »

and your the pr**k who causes the accidents, let me guess never been in an accident only seen them in your rear view mirrow

Personal abuse not welcome.

Moderator

Diamond Doll

Just saw that the lady involved in the accident has died. RIP.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-injured-in-horrific-early-morning-m50-crash-earlier-this-week-dies-34200624.html

thierry14

Did someone crash again?

Edit car broke down

GreatDefector

Another fatal accident this morning

RIP

cython

GreatDefector wrote: »

Another fatal accident this morning

RIP

http://s21.postimg.org/9ebaedd8n/Screenshot_2015_11_17_07_40_14.jpg

Tragic to see this accident, but this is on a relatively small road off the N3 by the looks of it (R121 in this map), so should have minimal impact on the M50 as a whole at least. Will cause some level of chaos in the locality though.

Pinch Flat

cython wrote: »

Tragic to see this accident, but this is on a relatively small road off the N3 by the looks of it (R121 in this map), so should have minimal impact on the M50 as a whole at least. Will cause some level of chaos in the locality though.

Looks like there's a bit more to that incident.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-hunt-for-occupants-of-car-who-fled-scene-after-crash-leaves-man-dead-34207273.html

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Seth Brundle

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Looks like there's a bit more to that incident.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-hunt-for-occupants-of-car-who-fled-scene-after-crash-leaves-man-dead-34207273.html

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And to think people last week wanted the gardai to rush their post-incident investigations. Imagine that was the normal practice?

aphex™

Closed again J6 Blanch for forensic investigation after a serious incident.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/m50-closed-after-serious-collision-706295.html

ThisRegard

Lovely.

Larbre34

From Live Drive twitter

Northbound heavy from J7 Lucan due to rubberneckers

They all deserve to sprain their ******* rubber necks.

Sympathy to anyone hurt and all that, but some effective measures to mitigate and clear up after these incidents must be found. A visual barrier 2 kms either side of the interchanges should be Job 1

gandalf

Yikes it looks like some lad threw himself off the bridge into the path of an oncoming truck!

At least according to the comments on the Garda facebook page!

deandean

Stuck on the M50 S for over an hour. FFS.

magicbastarder

Larbre34 wrote: »

They all deserve to sprain their ******* rubber necks.

we had this before. if they're stuck *in* a jam, how can they be actively causing it?

Mental Mickey

What's the traffic like on M50 southbound now?

GreatDefector

deandean wrote: »

Stuck on the M50 S for over an hour. FFS.

Boo hoo

knucklehead6

GreatDefector wrote: »

Boo hoo

What's that supposed to mean?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.