Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Mary says YES!

Options
1…2325272829

Comments

  • Options
    #722
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Well IMO a genuine atheist-and you are either an atheist or you are not an atheist-would have nothing to do with religion and would not be seen within an asses roar of a church,synagogue, temple whatever. Some 'atheists' however seem to pick and choose which aspects of religion offend them. It's called hypocrisy but I am not allowed to say that.

    So, if you were invited to a wedding in a synagogue you wouldn't go?


  • Options
    #723
    oldrnwisr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Well IMO a genuine atheist-and you are either an atheist or you are not an atheist-would have nothing to do with religion and would not be seen within an asses roar of a church,synagogue, temple whatever.

    You seem to be confusing atheist and anti-theist here. As swampgas has already pointed out, being an atheist simply means that you don't have any belief in a god or gods. It says nothing about your views on religion. Some atheists I've met think that religion is a good thing, mostly for the sense of community that it offers. Some that I've met think that all religions are bad and should be avoided/done away with etc.

    Personally, it depends on the religion in question. Some religions I have a profound aversion towards, like Christianity, mainly because of the negative impact it has had on society and also because it is being taught to children as if it were true when it's demonstrably not. Other religions like Buddhism or Jainism or Sikhism don't really bother me at all. However to ask me whether I approve or disapprove of religion in total is meaningless. There are so many different religions with widely varying characteristics that you can't lump them into a coherent group.

    Finally, you seem to have concluded that because someone is an atheist that they don't have friends or family. When an atheist goes to a funeral or a wedding it is to support a friend or family member on a happy or sad day. You're not going there to take part in the ceremony, just to be there for your friends. I've been at a wedding and a funeral recently and I don't feel any conflict with my beliefs. I don't pray or take part in any part of the mass so I'm not being hypocritical as you call it. What the other people choose to do or say or believe at the ceremony is, well, none of my business in the first place.

    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Some 'atheists' however seem to pick and choose which aspects of religion offend them.

    Like I've said above, different religions have different impacts on society and so elicit different responses from people. What aspects of religion are you referring to specifically?

    realdanbreen wrote: »
    It's called hypocrisy but I am not allowed to say that.

    No, it's not hypocrisy. I'm sure you could use the word hypocrisy if you backed up your argument with anything more than one sentence veiled insults.

    I also think you'll find that atheists would have a long way to go to beat most Christians in the hypocrisy stakes.

    Take the recent referendum on gay marriage, for example. There were quite a lot of Christians on Boards and in public who spoke quite vociferously about how the bible prohibited gay marriage. Some of them quoted Leviticus 18:22 in support of their argument, conveniently forgetting that Leviticus also bans shellfish, owning property, tattoos, astrologers, mixing crops, mixing fabrics etc. Other Christians who thought themselves more enlightened quoted Paul's letters in support of their argument while forgetting that Paul also taught that women should be silent, be educated at home, be obedient to their husbands and that slaves should be obedient to their masters.

    Or how about Catholics for example. According to the census 87% of the population lists itself as Catholic. Reports from inside and outside the church on the other hand put mass attendance figures at 30-40% despite one of the five precepts of the faith (the most important rules in the catholic handbook) requiring mass attendance every Sunday.

    You'd have to go a long way to find atheistic hypocrisy on a level approaching that of Christians.


  • Options
    #724
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,226 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    realdanbreen, you are trying to put atheism into the kind of straitjacket of rules that binds members of a religious grouping. You cannot do that as the only thing that links atheists is their lack of belief in, or acceptance of the existence of, a god or gods.

    There are no rules, no requirements, and if an atheist wishes to go into a place of worship, no one cares. A bit like a Pioneer can go into a pub, some people might consider it a bit pointless, the Pioneer might feel a bit out of place, but so long as he does not start preaching against drink, no one will care.


  • Options
    #725
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    looksee wrote: »
    realdanbreen, you are trying to put atheism into the kind of straitjacket
    More accurately, realdanbreen is strawmanning atheism to within one inch of trolling - any more and realdanbreen is likely to push himself over the edge.


  • Options
    #726
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,131 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    So am I correct in saying that the only aspect of religion that atheists have a problem with is that religion is a subject in most schools?

    The problem is not that religion is a subject; it's that religious indoctrination is a 'subject'. And it's not optional, for the most part.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #727
    Bristolscale7
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    Anti-clericalism is the term that realdanbreen seems to be missing.


  • Options
    #728
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    looksee wrote: »
    A bit like a Pioneer can go into a pub, some people might consider it a bit pointless, the Pioneer might feel a bit out of place, but so long as he does not start preaching against drink, no one will care.


    That's my point!
    Many feel that atheists preaching against religion is pointless.


  • Options
    #729
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    kylith wrote: »
    So, if you were invited to a wedding in a synagogue you wouldn't go?

    I am genuinely curious as to what rationale you used to come to that conclusion.


  • Options
    #730
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    That's my point!
    Many feel that atheists preaching against religion is pointless.

    That wasn't remotely your point and you know it. You're just jumping on an actual point because yours has no traction.

    And of course there's a point in atheists speaking against the elements of religion they have issues with.

    I assume that's what you mean by "atheists preaching against religion" since if we are to take that literally it's nothing to do with anything that's been discussed and absolutely cannot be the point you were making all along.

    Can a Christian speak out against issues they have with Islam?


  • Options
    #731
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    You'd have to go a long way to find atheistic hypocrisy on a level approaching that of Christians.

    Oh right, the old 'But what about............this that and the other arguement'.
    Fact is ye can't have it every way. Turning up for weddings and funerals in order to people please is really just a reflection of how fickle some peoples non beliefs are.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #732
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Oh right, the old 'But what about............this that and the other arguement'.
    Fact is ye can't have it every way. Turning up for weddings and funerals in order to people please is really just a reflection of how fickle some peoples non beliefs are.

    Or an indication that just because one is an atheist doesn't mean that they disdain everyone who isn't?


  • Options
    #733
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,226 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Oh right, the old 'But what about............this that and the other arguement'.
    Fact is ye can't have it every way. Turning up for weddings and funerals in order to people please is really just a reflection of how fickle some peoples non beliefs are.

    Fact is, ye can have it any way at all. I can go to a wedding because I want to, for whatever reason. It does not make any difference at all to my unbelief.

    As I said, you are confusing atheism with some sort of organisation. It isn't.

    I don't go to a wedding and 'believe' anything for the duration of the ceremony. I might enjoy the singing and the flowers and the company, that doesn't mean I am believing in anything.


  • Options
    #734
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Atheists don't believe in God and don't approve of religion.
    That's only about 75% wrong. Did you ever try asking an atheist what the word means since you quite obviously don't know?


  • Options
    #735
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Turning up for weddings and funerals in order to people please is really just a reflection of how fickle some peoples non beliefs are.
    I've been at loads of both and everybody knows full well I'm an atheist. In fact, at many of the functions probably the majority of the attendees were. And if asked we'd all have no shame at all in saying so, to the bride and groom or the family of the deceased.
    What makes you think they give a crap or would even ask?


  • Options
    #736
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    That's my point!
    Many feel that atheists preaching against religion is pointless.
    Which is why very few of them do.
    What they do "preach" is that religion should f**k off and mind its own business, particularly where it comes to the state and child safety.


  • Options
    #737
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Well IMO a genuine atheist-and you are either an atheist or you are not an atheist
    Does this apply to Catholics?


  • Options
    #738
    oldrnwisr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Oh right, the old 'But what about............this that and the other arguement'.

    No, whataboutery is a technique aimed at distracting people away from the topic. What I did was point out that your argument about atheistic hypocrisy is doubly wrong. Not only is an atheist not hypocritical for attending a wedding or funeral but the idea that a christian would come here to berate atheists for being hypocritical is ironic to say the least.

    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Fact is ye can't have it every way. Turning up for weddings and funerals in order to people please is really just a reflection of how fickle some peoples non beliefs are.

    Fickle how exactly?

    I was at a friend's wedding recently. He is an atheist and yet got married in a church (to please his now wife). He is, I will grant you, a hypocrite and I've said as much to him (light-heartedly at least). However, when I went to the wedding I didn't say any of the prayers, sing any of the hymns, take part in any part of the ceremony, didn't take communion and didn't kneel down. So in what way was I compromising my beliefs? I still don't believe in God and didn't engage in anything which said otherwise. The people at the wedding who know me knew I was an atheist and those who didn't probably didn't give a crap one way or the other. So how am I a hypocrite?


  • Options
    #739
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,087 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    I am genuinely curious as to what rationale you used to come to that conclusion.

    Since you're finding it hard to work out the question you're being asked there, how about replying to this one :

    If someone attends a religious ceremony when they are not a member of that religion, is it always hypocritical of them?


  • Options
    #740
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users Posts: 17,530 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    A certain somebody has an axe to grind, but can't for the life them find a grinding wheel


  • Options
    #741
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Well IMO a genuine atheist-and you are either an atheist or you are not an atheist

    A non atheist is called a theist.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #742
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    That's only about 75% wrong. Did you ever try asking an atheist what the word means since you quite obviously don't know?

    No I can't say that I have. Maybe the fact that I only ever met two genuine atheists in my life might explain that. Neither of those two would ever go near a church or church service. If attending a wedding they would wait outside in the car until the ceremony was over. They were two dead sound guys and utterly dependable. The other so called atheists that I come accross would be more of the 'could'nt be arsed brigade'. These guys would in general be unreliable and lack any real motivation or drive.


  • Options
    #743
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    No I can't say that I have. Maybe the fact that I only ever met two genuine atheists in my life might explain that. Neither of those two would ever go near a church or church service. If attending a wedding they would wait outside in the car until the ceremony was over. They were two dead sound guys and utterly dependable. The other so called atheists that I come accross would be more of the 'could'nt be arsed brigade'. These guys would in general be unreliable and lack any real motivation or drive.

    Again, that's YOUR definition of an Atheist, not THE definition of an atheist.


  • Options
    #744
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Kev W wrote: »
    Again, that's YOUR definition of an Atheist, not THE definition of an atheist.

    Correct.


  • Options
    #745
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Correct.

    You realise that you have made your own definition for a word which is different from the commonly used definition and then you complain about how people use the word to describe themselves using the word's commonly used definition because they arent matching up to your made up definition which only exists in your head.

    Right...

    Or does correct mean something else to you? I'm not sure how much of the English language you have changed.


  • Options
    #746
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    No I can't say that I have. Maybe the fact that I only ever met two genuine atheists in my life might explain that. Neither of those two would ever go near a church or church service. If attending a wedding they would wait outside in the car until the ceremony was over. They were two dead sound guys and utterly dependable. The other so called atheists that I come accross would be more of the 'could'nt be arsed brigade'. These guys would in general be unreliable and lack any real motivation or drive.
    These other guys are "unreliable" at what? Going to church? Not going to church?
    So what are they then if they:
    A: Don't believe there is a god
    but
    B: Don't denounce those who believe there is a god.
    You'll invent a new word for us here perhaps, with your own personal meaning?


  • Options
    #747
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,347 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    What makes you think I hate atheists? I just find it strange that so many of them don't stick to their principles.If I was an atheist I would like to think I was man enough to never have my kids baptised,

    Check
    never have them get first communion or confirmation,

    Check
    never get married in a church,

    Check
    never attend a funeral service,

    Why wouldn't I show my respects to the friends and family of the deceased? It's about them and not me. I'm perfectly capable of behaving with consideration and respect towards other people you know.
    basicly stick to my principles that's all.

    We often hear about "Christian principles", judge not lest ye be judged was one of them wasn't it?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #748
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,347 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Kev W wrote: »
    I neither approve nor disapprove. It's not a simple subject. It's like asking "do you approve of beer?" I don't care for it but if other people like it and they're not trying to force me into drinking it or passing it out in schools that's their business.

    That's an imperfect analogy but I'm sure the gist is clear.

    Look, we can forgive the pineapple heresy (whenever we decide which is definitively the heretical position) but BEER? There are people in the world who don't like beer? I think I need a lie down.









    ...and a beer

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #749
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I don't like beer.








    Does that mean I'm a hypocrite?


  • Options
    #750
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,347 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    lazygal wrote: »
    I don't like beer.

    Does that mean I'm a hypocrite?

    Not unless you've professed otherwise.

    Apostate though, yeah.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #751
    Bristolscale7
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    I hate shiftless atheists as much as therealdanguy does.


Advertisement