Should Peyton Manning Retire?

namloc1980

Osweiler is in.

Realt Dearg Sec

Sad. Especially to have him break the record, and then celebrate the ****ing thing, the same night he is actually benched. Sad.

StringerBell

Awful the way he is nosediving but it was inevitable, the signs have been there.

Jolly Red Giant

The debate is done - at least he got the yardage record before the INTs.

Osweiler showed in less than a half of play that he is better than Manning and that was using the hybrid offence that was installed to help Manning. Osweiler has the physical attributes perfect for Kubiak's WCO and will improve with it.

The guy will make a ton of mistakes - but at least he has upside rather than terminal decline and we will find out if he has the makings of an NFL QB.

It is a sad and ignominious end to a great career. Manning should have retired in the offseason. He really has little choice but to do it now if he has any sense.

LuckyLloyd

Worst game of all time at QB?

5 of 20; 35 yards; 0 TD / 4 INT

woof!!

StringerBell

I don't think he is going to leave all that money on the table JRG

Jolly Red Giant

StringerBell wrote: »

I don't think he is going to leave all that money on the table JRG

I know - I said that he 'should' - not that he 'would'

Kubiak came out after the game saying 'Manning is still the starter, he will play next week if healthy'

The Broncos won't announce who will start for the rest of the season - Manning and Osweiler will operate different offences and have different skill sets (indeed it is debatable what skills Manning still has) - so by not announcing who will play will limit the prep of the defences. I suspect from here on in every team will plan for Osweiler - the only question is whether Elway is sentimental enough to give Manning a shot at breaking the wins record.

StringerBell

I thought I caught the end of Kubiak talking about how Peyton had a minor injury and probably shouldn't have played, putting the blame on himself for not making the decision before game time? Could be the last we see of him till playoffs if that is the case, perfect cover to get him out quietly and try to freshen him

Edit: You did say

you wrote:

He really has little choice but to do it now if he has any sense.

eagle eye

I was just reading there that he was on the injury report with a rib injury as well as a foot injury on Saturday. Rib injuries don't heal very quickly and will cause a lot of discomfort for a while and it certainly would affect a throwing motion.

Even in sports where you don't have to throw a ball you will find players performing below par for a couple of weeks with a rib injury and that's if they play.

I think he should be left out until he is fully healthy but having looked at Osweiler I didn't see anything from him that would strike fear into his opponents. Better to go back to a healthy Manning when he is ready.

LuckyLloyd

Yesterday comes back to my point at how cruel sport is. Considering how the day played out, the moment to acknowledge him breaking the record may now feel to Manning like he was present at his own funeral. In an ideal world he would have played solidly and thrown a beautiful pass or two at some point so we could all coo about how great he has been and throw around the 'still got it' plaudits. Instead, on the day he broke the record, he turned in one of the worst (if not THE worst) QB displays in NFL history looking every second his age.

Thing about it though? It's great drama to watch him crumble to dust at the end like this. This is sport at its most compelling.

AMGer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Worst game of all time at QB?

5 of 20; 35 yards; 0 TD / 4 INT

woof!!

I've seen worse, I remember Derek Anderson for the Browns a few years back against Buffalo.......also if you want to Google it, Dan Pastorini for the Oilers against the Raiders on MNF in 1972.....but not worse with that much talent around the QB.

D9Male

I only saw it on condensed view just now, but that was really ugly. Really, really bad.

He was picked 4 times, but it should have been more

JaMarcusHustle

AMGer wrote: »

I've seen worse, I remember Derek Anderson for the Browns a few years back against Buffalo.......also if you want to Google it, Dan Pastorini for the Oilers against the Raiders on MNF in 1972.....but not worse with that much talent around the QB.

Todd Collins had a similar game a few years back for Chicago. I remember starting him in Fantasy Football as I had Cutler who Collins came in for sure to injury. First time a QB had ever got me negative points in FF.

LuckyLloyd

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Todd Collins had a similar game a few years back for Chicago. I remember starting him in Fantasy Football as I had Cutler who Collins came in for sure to injury. First time a QB had ever got me negative points in FF.

Manning was -6.60 pts for Fantasy yesterday. :P

StringerBell

I think if they can wrap him in cotton wool and get him plenty of rest between now and the post season (blame it on his rib injury) then a fresh Manning will still ultimately be a failure in the playoffs, though that defence could give him a realistic shot at another ring before he bows out, possibly. If he plays through he will be broken down completely by January though

AMGer

He has some foot condition aswell now, plantar fasiciitis or some such thing.

frostie500

Hard not to look at manning in the same way that favres career finished off

Jolly Red Giant

StringerBell wrote: »

I thought I caught the end of Kubiak talking about how Peyton had a minor injury and probably shouldn't have played, putting the blame on himself for not making the decision before game time?

Its what you expect a coach to say - Manning always seems to have an injury when he has played bad over the past year - and the severity seems to be based on who is receiving the message.

StringerBell wrote: »

Could be the last we see of him till playoffs if that is the case, perfect cover to get him out quietly and try to freshen him

You actually answered this yourself -

a fresh Manning will still ultimately be a failure in the playoffs

StringerBell wrote: »

Edit: You did say

And this is what should happen - but it won't.

I remember when Elway held his retirement presser and he was asked the reason why he was retiring - he stated - "I just can't do it physically anymore."

I was discussing this with Broncos fans on another forum and someone made an interesting comment about what might happen - Manning will sit out next week against the Bears and be given one last shot at tying the win record against Brady. If he wins the game against the Pats he will stay as a starter - if he loses he will be done and Os will take over for the rest of the season. I can see this scenario actually panning out (and I don't think the Broncos will beat the Pats because Manning hasn't the strength to expolit the weaknesses on the Pats defence).

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

I think he should be left out until he is fully healthy but having looked at Osweiler I didn't see anything from him that would strike fear into his opponents. Better to go back to a healthy Manning when he is ready.

1. Manning is not physically able to play anymore - it doesn't make a blind bit of difference how healthy he is - he can't throw the ball and he is very easy to defend against.

2. You are being a bit harsh on Osweiler. The guy has played less than a half of football in the NFL. He did okay - made some good throws - made some mistakes. The difference is that Osweiler has a big and reasonably accurate arm (the main question has always been whether he can hit the short to intermediate passing routes). Defences will have to respect his arm rather than stacking the line against Manning. This will help the running game which in turn will help the passing game and the defence. Os is built to run a WCO and the OL (poor that it is) is built for the WCO and the OL and RBs are built for running stretch plays. The more time Osweiler gets the reps and to play the better he will get. Whether that means he will be good enough only time will tell - but a QB who is not making the mistakes that Manning is making will always have a shot given how good this Broncos D actually is.

SameOleJay

Found it hard not to feel for Peyton on the sideline. God knows how it happens but I hope he goes out on something resembling a high.

Osweiller was pretty underwhelming. Interested to see how he does in Chicago, assuming rumours on Manning’s foot are accurate.

Jolly Red Giant

SameOleJay wrote: »

Found it hard not to feel for Peyton on the sideline. God knows how it happens but I hope he goes out on something resembling a high.

It is sad to see such a decline - unfortunately it is not an overnight development - it has been happening since about week 10 of last season.

SameOleJay wrote: »

Osweiller was pretty underwhelming. Interested to see how he does in Chicago, assuming rumours on Manning’s foot are accurate.

Manning won't pay next week - irrespective of whether he is hurt or not. Every time Manning plays bad it is because of an injury - the reality is that he is no longer able to physically play the game.

As for Osweiler - what did you expect. The guy was playing in his first NFL game of any consequence. He has had few reps and he was playing in an offensive scheme designed to help Manning and his very limited ability. Osweiler is a polar opposite of Manning as a QB - big, strong, quick feet, with a cannon for an arm.

Despite all this look at the comparison last night

Manning 5/20 for 35 yards and 4 INTs - a fumble and an intentional grounding penalty

Osweiler 14/24 for 146 yards with 1TD and 1INT and the INT was on 4th down and 4 where he had no option but to try and throw the ball into tight coverage on a shortened field.

Nobody knows if Osweiler is any good. Only playing time will tell. What we do know is that Osweiler has all the physical skills needed for the WCO that Kubiak runs and was impressive in pre-season running the WCO. Next week we are likely to see Osweiler under centre rather than playing out of the shotgun like he did most of last night. This will improve the running game because defences will have to respect his arm and the improved running game will have a knock on of improving the passing game.

Osweiler does have issues - he has trouble reading defences (something that can only be helped with game time) etc. But at this point he has demonstrated even with less than half a game that he can play better than Manning has all season. The time has come to find out if he can be a long-term starter for the Broncos.

AMGer

so it's officially the Brock Osweiler show next week.

Son Of A Vidic

Manning has reached a point where he needs to retire with dignity. Nobody wants to see him play that way he did last night again. I hope he makes the right decision and walks away, because he'll never get a bigger wake up call than yesterday's performance.

Jolly Red Giant

AMGer wrote: »

so it's officially the Brock Osweiler show next week.

The interesting comment by Kubiak was -

"there is no timetable for Manning's return"

That could be it for Manning.

It is worth nothing that the normal recovery time to full health for a partial plantar tear is up to 12 weeks. Surgery is not recommended. The Denver Post commented "Manning's health and ability to play at this point is a huge question mark because full rest in a walking boot is the most successful prescription for this injury."

A partial tear is much more painful than a full tear and that is a major problem for a QB who stresses the plantar when setting for and throwing a pass.

Son Of A Vidic

I tore my plantar fascia back in 2004 and to this day it is still not fully healed. The plantar fascia is like a rubber band which is anchored to you heel bone (Calcaneus). It has no blood supply and that makes it particularly difficult to heal 100%. So it is one of the worst injuries to get for an athlete. The only surgical option is a Fascia Release and that has a 85% failure rate amongst the best surgeons out there. So Manning's career has to be over and even if he was 10 years younger, I would still have serious question about his future after suffering this kind of injury.

Knex*

Just realised that Eli played through the same injury in 2009, only his was a full tear.

Son Of A Vidic

Knex. wrote: »

Just realised that Eli played through the same injury in 2009, only his was a full tear.

The weird thing about it is, a full tear is much better than a partial tear. A partial tear never heals properly and tends to be prone to re-tearing a lot. 11 years later and I can still partially tear my originally injury, if I turn sharply on the foot while it's bearing all my weight. While I never knew Eli tore his, I'm not surprised because it's an injury that is really affected by genetics. I come from a very sporty family and most of us have had trouble with the plantar fascia. Now I hear Eli had it and now Peyton has it. Mad how sometimes we just can't escape our family dispositions & genetics.

Realt Dearg Sec

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Mad how sometimes we just can't escape our family dispositions & genetics.

That's how I excuse my alcoholism and laziness.

Oat23

Classy from Peyton. Anyone else except him and maybe one or two other QBs would be getting hammered for this.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000583783/article/peyton-manning-not-involved-as-broncos-prep-for-bears

padraig_f

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Worst game of all time at QB?

5 of 20; 35 yards; 0 TD / 4 INT

woof!!

Fairly pathetic to see people dancing on Manning's grave to bolster their boards ego. While it's not pleasant to watch the great players in the twilight of their career, my takeaway watching this is that even the greatest fail, and it's in confronting this struggle which made them great in the first place. So to say they should quit to preserve a reputation is to misunderstand their character. I never begrudge great players going on until they want (and while a team is willing to play them), they've earned it. To quote the famous Roosevelt bit...

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

- Theodore Roosevelt.