Cork 2016 Route news

lisasimpson

Mr rebel wrote: »

Yeah most people I've spoken to are surprised you can fly from Cork to Madrid and didn't know about it. I just wish it was either Ryanair or Aer Lingus covering the route as Iberia Express appears to be a terrible airline.

Exactly is the marketing that could be upped more esp for routes not serves by ryanair or aerligus. I remember a few year back driving from the airport to city and seeing signs for shannon airport just before the kinsale road aroundabout.

Another serious issue is time and time again people complain about the expense of flying from cork..again marketing could play a role here esp advertising when airlines have sales on

snotboogie

lisasimpson wrote: »

Mr rebel wrote: »

Yeah most people I've spoken to are surprised you can fly from Cork to Madrid and didn't know about it. I just wish it was either Ryanair or Aer Lingus covering the route as Iberia Express appears to be a terrible airline.

Exactly is the marketing that could be upped more esp for routes not serves by ryanair or aerligus. I remember a few year back driving from the airport to city and seeing signs for shannon airport just before the kinsale road aroundabout.

Another serious issue is time and time again people complain about the expense of flying from cork..again marketing could play a role here esp advertising when airlines have sales on

These are the top 20 biggest routes out of Munster for the first 6 months this year:



Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London - Heathrow (LHR),Great Britain 183,697
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London - Stansted (STN),Great Britain 160,830
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland London - Heathrow (LHR),Great Britain 123,847
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland London - Stansted (STN),Great Britain 115,538
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Amsterdam (AMS),Netherlands 87,961
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London - Gatwick (LGW),Great Britain 59,181
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland London - Gatwick (LGW),Great Britain 53,343
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland New York - JFK (JFK),USA 49,981
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Lanzarote (ACE),Spain 49,521
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Newark (EWR),USA 46,757
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Malaga (AGP),Spain 46,752
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Paris - Charles De Gaulle (CDG),France 46,204
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Faro (FAO),Portugal 45,552
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Manchester (MAN),Great Britain 44,147
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Boston (BOS),USA 43,395
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Manchester (MAN),Great Britain 42,529
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Liverpool (LPL),Great Britain 38,955
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Birmingham - Uk (BHX),Great Britain 35,997
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London City (LCY),Great Britain 35,769
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Faro (FAO),Portugal 24,921


As far as I can see in terms of major routes, they compete in nine. Cork has more traffic than Shannon on all but one of those nine routes, Manchester being the exception. However Cork will almost certainly overtake Shannon on the Manchester route by the end of the year given the way the numbers are tending. Anyway here is the table of the routes they compete on:


Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London - Heathrow (LHR),Great Britain 183,697
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland London - Heathrow (LHR),Great Britain 123,847 59,850 48.33%

Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London - Stansted (STN),Great Britain 160,830
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland London - Stansted (STN),Great Britain 115,538 45,292 39.20%

Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London - Gatwick (LGW),Great Britain 59,181
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland London - Gatwick (LGW),Great Britain 53,343 5,838 10.94%

Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Lanzarote (ACE),Spain 49,521
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Lanzarote (ACE),Spain 17,616 31,905 181.11%

Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Malaga (AGP),Spain 46,752
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Malaga (AGP),Spain 20,494 26,258 128.13%

Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Paris - Charles De Gaulle (CDG),France 46,204
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Paris - Beauvais (BVA),France 14,612 31,592 216.21%

Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Faro (FAO),Portugal 45,552
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Faro (FAO),Portugal 24,921 20,631 82.79%

Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Manchester (MAN),Great Britain 44,147
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Manchester (MAN),Great Britain 42,529 1,618 3.80%

Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Birmingham - Uk (BHX),Great Britain 35,997
Shannon (SNN),Republic Of Ireland Birmingham - Uk (BHX),Great Britain 15,063 20,934 138.98%


My point is that I'm not sure that Shannon is as much of an issue in terms of competition for Cork as people think, at least if we are ignoring the transatlantic elephant in the room.....

Banbha32

Norwegian Air today announced non stop Barcelona to the U.S flights to 4 cities starting next year (including New York but not Boston as of yet). With the original plan of the route being Barcelona - Cork - Boston (and New York from 2017) I wonder does this now take Cork out of the equation seeing as it has proved so difficult to get approval from the U.S side of things. Such a shame we really need this and they are a great airine have flown with them many times

Rawr

Banbha32 wrote: »

Norwegian Air today announced non stop Barcelona to the U.S flights to 4 cities starting next year (including New York but not Boston as of yet). With the original plan of the route being Barcelona - Cork - Boston (and New York from 2017) I wonder does this now take Cork out of the equation seeing as it has proved so difficult to get approval from the U.S side of things. Such a shame we really need this and they are a great airine have flown with them many times

They appear to be posting all of these routes as non-stop. Awful pity, especially given that it looks like these direct routes are using 787s. Would have been nice to see NAS serving Ireland with some of its widebodies.

(I think they were originally planning the Barcelona - Cork - Boston route with their 737-800. I could be wrong there)

Fabio

How the hell were these flights approved by the US authorities and not the ones from Cork?

MoeJay

Fabio wrote: »

How the hell were these flights approved by the US authorities and not the ones from Cork?

It's quite simple.

Norwegian can operate tomorrow under their existing structure from Cork. They are choosing not to.

They do not require any additional approvals to operate from Ireland to the USA. This is why they can and do operate from London, Paris and from Barcelona...

KCAccidental

Rawr wrote: »

They appear to be posting all of these routes as non-stop. Awful pity, especially given that it looks like these direct routes are using 787s. Would have been nice to see NAS serving Ireland with some of its widebodies.

(I think they were originally planning the Barcelona - Cork - Boston route with their 737-800. I could be wrong there)

The 787s wouldnt have been using Cork in any case I'd say.

roundymac

irishexaminer.com/ireland/michael-oleary-impasse-on-cork-flights-to-us-is-shameful-420670.html
MOL backs Norwegian.

highlydebased

Some comments from Emirates..

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/emirates-eyes-cork-future-optimistic/2526363/

The head of Emirates in Ireland, Enda Corneille, said that while the carrier doesn’t currently operate any routes directly from Cork, they would examine it in the future considering the growing strength of the market here.

“Looking at Cork now and what’s going on, I think it’s very much on the up,” he said.

“The airport is there, the events centre is coming, there is a reasonably good selection of hotels, the market is there… it’s all there. So it’s just a matter of all those things beginning to click, and that will happen.”

Mr Corneille said that the transatlantic Cork-to-Boston route proposed by low-cost carrier, Norwegian, would be a “total game-changer.”

“Any competition is good. We’re flying, now, to eleven gateways in the US and that has not gone down too well with our competitors, but we’re offering choice and I think that’s what Norwegian will do for the Cork market, and for the Boston market. We’re big fans of competition. Bring it on.”

Emirates flies twice daily from Dublin to Dubai, and onwards to 140 destinations. But a Cork-to-Dubai route could happen in the near future, says Mr Corneille.

“Our strategy has been to develop the market from the capital city first, which is why we fly from Dublin.

“But take Emirates in the UK. We started off flying from London and now we’re flying from Manchester and Glasgow and Newcastle, as well. So, I wouldn’t say flying from Cork is beyond the realms of possibility, just not in the short-term.” While there might be no Emirates flights from Cork yet, that hasn’t stopped Leesiders booking with the airline. In fact, it is proving particularly popular with newlyweds here.

“We did some work on stats with the CSO and the number of couples getting married is fairly static, at 22,000 a year, but we have seen an increase in honeymoon bookings, by around 34% nationwide,” said Mr Corneille.

“Five years ago, ten years ago, the honeymoon was really about whatever was left in the budget. Whereas, now, it’s actually a big part of it. Younger couples know there may be kids and a mortgage down the line, and they may not get that big holiday again for a few years, and older couples have more money and want to splash out.”

Chris_5339762

I was about to say the same. Certainly wouldn't be a fully loaded 777 anyway.

Rocko

Probably being a bit optimistic

http://www.irishcentral.com/culture/travel/norwegian-air-plans-69-transatlantic-flights-from-cork-by-march-2017

JCX BXC

Rocko wrote: »

Probably being a bit optimistic

http://www.irishcentral.com/culture/travel/norwegian-air-plans-69-transatlantic-flights-from-cork-by-march-2017

Just a headline really, nothing to read into.

IngazZagni

Carnacalla wrote: »

Rocko wrote: »

Probably being a bit optimistic

http://www.irishcentral.com/culture/travel/norwegian-air-plans-69-transatlantic-flights-from-cork-by-march-2017

Just a headline really, nothing to read into.

Exactly. Norwegian are a shameful bunch. Continuing to use Cork as a political tool to try and reduce pay and conditions for their staff. And unfortunately many politicians and local people are eating it right up.
Let's face it. Norwegian don't give a damn about Cork and they never will. If they did, they would be operating services today on their existing Air operator certificates.

JCX BXC

IngazZagni wrote: »

Exactly. Norwegian are a shameful bunch. Continuing to use Cork as a political tool to try and reduce pay and conditions for their staff. And unfortunately many politicians and local people are eating it right up.
Let's face it. Norwegian don't give a damn about Cork and they never will. If they did, they would be operating services today on their existing Air operator certificates.

I've said it all along..............

snotboogie

IngazZagni wrote: »

.......
Exactly. Norwegian are a shameful bunch. Continuing to use Cork as a political tool to try and reduce pay and conditions for their staff. And unfortunately many politicians and local people are eating it right up.
Let's face it. Norwegian don't give a damn about Cork and they never will. If they did, they would be operating services today on their existing Air operator certificates.

How exactly are they doing that?

Why have Norweigan chose Cork as the airport to use?

Cork should be well aware that they are being used as a political tool but why not play along?

JCX BXC

You could say it a thousand times and you'd still have to repeat it on this thread

snotboogie

Carnacalla wrote: »

You could say it a thousand times and you'd still have to repeat it on this thread

This is the closest to an answer I could find in the thread

Norway is in open skies and they already use it to fly to the US ex-UK.

They want access to out employment and regulatory regime. If it's so terrible, the DOT should be banning EI.

That was in April and 10 pages ago and there is no evidence to back it up.....

MoeJay

Well the question should be what is it about their current set up that would make it so uncompetitive to operate out of Cork?

Or what is it about using an Irish subsidiary that makes it so attractive?

NAS admit they can operate Ireland-USA using their existing approvals but they won't own up about why they won't....

snotboogie

MoeJay wrote: »

Well the question should be what is it about their current set up that would make it so uncompetitive to operate out of Cork?

Or what is it about using an Irish subsidiary that makes it so attractive?

NAS admit they can operate Ireland-USA using their existing approvals but they won't own up about why they won't....

Because they are using Cork as leverage for the open skies agreement. I never disputed that. That doesn't mean that they are going to reduce pay and conditions for their staff, at least as far as I can see. Willing to be proved wrong if you have any evidence that it will....

man98

snotboogie wrote: »

Because they are using Cork as leverage for the open skies agreement. I never disputed that. That doesn't mean that they are going to reduce pay and conditions for their staff, at least as far as I can see. Willing to be proved wrong if you have any evidence that it will....

Irish labour laws are more lax than Norwegian labour laws, they would be allowed to take advantage of cheaper contracts for the likes of Thai cabin crew. Cork was picked on purpose because there is incredible support for transatlantic flights from here which would create political will, especially with it being Micheal Martin and Simon Coveney's constituency. It was an incredibly smart move which is intended as a Trojan horse to allow NAI to operate all the flights on behalf of NAX, saving them a lot of money; circumventing proper labour laws and providing negligible gain to Cork as few people would find employment from the operation.

snotboogie

man98 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Because they are using Cork as leverage for the open skies agreement. I never disputed that. That doesn't mean that they are going to reduce pay and conditions for their staff, at least as far as I can see. Willing to be proved wrong if you have any evidence that it will....

Irish labour laws are more lax than Norwegian labour laws, they would be allowed to take advantage of cheaper contracts for the likes of Thai cabin crew. Cork was picked on purpose because there is incredible support for transatlantic flights from here which would create political will, especially with it being Micheal Martin and Simon Coveney's constituency. It was an incredibly smart move which is intended as a Trojan horse to allow NAI to operate all the flights on behalf of NAX, saving them a lot of money; circumventing proper labour laws and providing negligible gain to Cork as few people would find employment from the operation.

They have repeatedly said that they will not do this and have said that this is a red herring by the notoriously anti competition US airlines. I have yet to see any evidence that they will use Asian cabin crew on Europe to US flights. Which airlines currently use Asian based staff on Irish-US routes due to our lax labour laws?

I don't dispute you on the fact that Cork is being used as a political tool. Just because Cork is being used doesn't mean that it's not good for Cork. Our national carrier has ignored Cork for transatlantic routes since it opened, at the very least the Norwegian move has opened the discussion again.

Pat Dunne

man98 wrote: »

providing negligible gain to Cork as few people would find employment from the operation.

I tend agree that relatively few direct jobs maybe created in regards of crew. However real employment is always created by the "trickle down effect", in the areas of support staff, baggage/ground handling, check-in, security, transportation, restaurants/bars etc..

A busy airport will always need staff.

man98

snotboogie wrote: »

They have repeatedly said that they will not do this and have said that this is a red herring by the notoriously anti competition US airlines. I have yet to see any evidence that they will use Asian cabin crew on Europe to US flights. Which airlines currently use Asian based staff on Irish-US routes due to our lax labour laws?

... yes and HMV also said they'd pay their workers redundancy payments. Not everything businesses say should be believed. As Claud Cockburn said, "Never believe anything until it has been officially denied". No airlines use Asian cabin crew because there are no international airlines with hubs in both Bangkok and Dublin. Pre-existingly, I believe they use US based cabin crew on European routes due to lower wages and that's even with the Norweigan AOC. If they didn't plan on using Asian cabin crew at substantially lower wages, then why have they contracted a Singaporean recruitment company to hire their staff? If they were truly an Irish company, wouldn't they use the same company as FR and co do?

When I say limited employment from this route I am even factoring in extra security. At the end of the day, 5 weekly flights (even if they are US flights) won't make a groundbreaking difference in employment given that the airport handles dozens of flights per day. The low cost passenger is by far the least lucrative to businesses in the airport because most are on a shoestring budget. There is no denying there would be an increase in business at the airport, but we need to factor the lesser of two evils in here.

snotboogie

man98 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

They have repeatedly said that they will not do this and have said that this is a red herring by the notoriously anti competition US airlines. I have yet to see any evidence that they will use Asian cabin crew on Europe to US flights. Which airlines currently use Asian based staff on Irish-US routes due to our lax labour laws?

... yes and HMV also said they'd pay their workers redundancy payments. Not everything businesses say should be believed. As Claud Cockburn said, "Never believe anything until it has been officially denied". No airlines use Asian cabin crew because there are no international airlines with hubs in both Bangkok and Dublin. Pre-existingly, I believe they use US based cabin crew on European routes due to lower wages and that's even with the Norweigan AOC. If they didn't plan on using Asian cabin crew at substantially lower wages, then why have they contracted a Singaporean recruitment company to hire their staff? If they were truly an Irish company, wouldn't they use the same company as FR and co do?

When I say limited employment from this route I am even factoring in extra security. At the end of the day, 5 weekly flights (even if they are US flights) won't make a groundbreaking difference in employment given that the airport handles dozens of flights per day. The low cost passenger is by far the least lucrative to businesses in the airport because most are on a shoestring budget. There is no denying there would be an increase in business at the airport, but we need to factor the lesser of two evils in here.

Link for the Singaporean recruitment company to hire staff fro transatlantic routes? Even then it doesn't make sense, Singapore has a higher cost of living and is a higher wage economy than both Ireland and the US. Unless they were hiring Thai staff from Singapore? Again I'd like to see credible links to back up what you are saying.

JCX BXC

The proposed services were only ever a stop in Cork, not originating or terminating there!

And as well, what trickle down employment affect comes from a 3pw service?

The nasty game they are playing has a very small gain for Cork, but a very big loss for conditions within aviation.

man98

snotboogie wrote: »

Link for the Singaporean recruitment company to hire staff fro transatlantic routes? Even then it doesn't make sense, Singapore has a higher cost of living and is a higher wage economy than both Ireland and the US. Unless they were hiring Thai staff from Singapore? Again I'd like to see credible links to back up what you are saying.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/american-fliers-and-their-howard-beale-moment/2015/08/20/902eb7dc-4503-11e5-8e7d-9c033e6745d8_story.html It mentions something about it there if one scrolls down.

snotboogie

Carnacalla wrote: »

The proposed services were only ever a stop in Cork, not originating or terminating there!

And as well, what trickle down employment affect comes from a 3pw service?

The nasty game they are playing has a very small gain for Cork, but a very big loss for conditions within aviation.

I'm pretty sure it was a direct service 5 times a week: http://www.bostonirish.com/around-town/plans-place-boston-cork-flights-beginning-next-may not part of another route?
Add in New York and Barcelona and it's 10+ flights a weeks to a region not currently supported from Cork. I'm not saying it would transform the city but it's clearly a potential benefit.

snotboogie

man98 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Link for the Singaporean recruitment company to hire staff fro transatlantic routes? Even then it doesn't make sense, Singapore has a higher cost of living and is a higher wage economy than both Ireland and the US. Unless they were hiring Thai staff from Singapore? Again I'd like to see credible links to back up what you are saying.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/american-fliers-and-their-howard-beale-moment/2015/08/20/902eb7dc-4503-11e5-8e7d-9c033e6745d8_story.html It mentions something about it there if one scrolls down.

With the caveat of reportedly in front of it.

roundymac

snotboogie wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it was a direct service 5 times a week: http://www.bostonirish.com/around-town/plans-place-boston-cork-flights-beginning-next-may not part of another route?
Add in New York and Barcelona and it's 10+ flights a weeks to a region not currently supported from Cork. I'm not saying it would transform the city but it's clearly a potential benefit.

It was never a direct service, always originating Barcelona.

JCX BXC

I see LBA is gone for the summer and NCL cut back again to 3pw.

Sad really, NCL route was useful personally, always found it quite expensive though.

I could easily see Iberia increasing for next summer, anything else on the horizon?