Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Second coming of the Pope to coincide with General Election issue of 8th amendment?

Options
1…910121415…18

Comments

  • Options
    #332
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,156 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    Isn't the morning after pill already legal in Ireland?

    So is its use murder?


  • Options
    #333
    martinjudge73
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭martinjudge73


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    So is its use murder?

    What does our laws and Constitution say?


  • Options
    #334
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #335
    martinjudge73
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭martinjudge73


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    What do you say is more the point. It is a question you and other rabid pro lifers refuse to answer.

    I'm not a rabid pro-lifer.. But I disagree with treating the unborn child as trash under the false notion its just a choice.

    Pill, Condoms, morning after pill.. We have sexed up our society, and we are incapable of living with the consequence of our actions.

    Children at not trash for Medical waste or for Medical investigation.


  • Options
    #336
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #337
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,884 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    Pill, Condoms, morning after pill.. We have sexed up our society, and we are incapable of living with the consequence of our actions.

    What? Why does sex NEED to have negative consequences?


  • Options
    #338
    stinkle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    So we go on saying its fine to kill the child? You can dress the argument up anyway you like, but on demand abortion in Ireland is wrong.
    Why Ireland? Is it ok elsewhere? What's so special about Ireland that women can't access basic healthcare unless they're at death's door or have run a traumatic gauntlet of 3 psychiatric assessments to prove they're suicidal?


  • Options
    #339
    martinjudge73
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭martinjudge73


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    What? Why does sex NEED to have negative consequences?

    Sex has consequences at many levels. Emotional (mainly for girls), Physical or Medical (if you can't something that can't be cured).


  • Options
    #340
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    I'm not a rabid pro-lifer.. But I disagree with treating the unborn child as trash under the false notion its just a choice.

    Pill, Condoms, morning after pill.. We have sexed up our society, and we are incapable of living with the consequence of our actions.

    Children at not trash for Medical waste or for Medical investigation.

    Trash. Now, is that a common word used in Ireland. And another poster used similar Americanisms. "Strokes chin again".

    Isn't abortion dealing with the consequences of sex? Like, say, using the morning after pill? What's the difference between the two?


  • Options
    #341
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #342
    martinjudge73
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭martinjudge73


    lazygal wrote: »
    Trash. Now, is that a common word used in Ireland. And another poster used similar Americanisms. "Strokes chin again".

    Isn't abortion dealing with the consequences of sex? Like, say, using the morning after pill? What's the difference between the two?

    Because the MAP won't be on the ballot paper if there is a change to the 8th amendment.. Will it?


  • Options
    #343
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    Because the MAP won't be on the ballot paper if there is a change to the 8th amendment.. Will it?

    Do you think it's killing a child to use the morning after pill if life begins at conception?
    I think it's pretty obvious that you're not actually going to answer any questions on why it's ok to use the morning after pill or take the unborn out of Ireland to kill them. I also think these posts are more the American inspired and funded rhetoric that'll saturate the media if and when a referendum is called. And I'll be putting all material from such sources straight into the trash can.


  • Options
    #344
    martinjudge73
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭martinjudge73


    lazygal wrote: »
    Do you think it's killing a child to use the morning after pill if life begins at conception?
    I think it's pretty obvious that you're not actually going to answer any questions on why it's ok to use the morning after pill or take the unborn out of Ireland to kill them. I also think these posts are more the American inspired and funded rhetoric that'll saturate the media if and when a referendum is called. And I'll be putting all material from such sources straight into the trash can.

    I'm not saying its ok to use the MAP or not. But it seems that with all those choices we already have that they are never enough. If you don't want to have a child then you use conception & a condom.

    Today we have a lot more choices than 50 years ago. A child that exists should not be treated as a choice to be killed or not. The unborn child is a human being in development that has to be respected.


  • Options
    #345
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    I'm not saying its ok to use the MAP or not. But it seems that with all those choices we already have that they are never enough. If you don't want to have a child then you use conception & a condom.

    Today we have a lot more choices than 50 years ago. A child that exists should not be treated as a choice to be killed or not. The unborn child is a human being in development that has to be respected.

    Contraception fails sometimes. Is having an abortion dealing with the consequences of sex?

    I'll ask again. If life begins at conception why is the morning after pill acceptable? And why should it be legal and constitutional to allow the unborn to be killed elsewhere and such women to face no legal penalties on return to Ireland?


  • Options
    #346
    martinjudge73
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭martinjudge73


    lazygal wrote: »
    Contraception fails sometimes. Is having an abortion dealing with the consequences of sex?

    I'll ask again. If life begins at conception why is the morning after pill acceptable? And why should it be legal and constitutional to allow the unborn to be killed elsewhere and such women to face no legal penalties on return to Ireland?

    The MAP is already legal in Ireland. This thread is about the 8th Amendment, and the MAP legally does not fall under the amendment.

    The constitution does not allow a child to be killed elsewhere, it just states the right to travel.


  • Options
    #347
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    The MAP is already legal in Ireland. This thread is about the 8th Amendment, and the MAP legally does not fall under the amendment.

    The constitution does not allow a child to be killed elsewhere, it just states the right to travel.

    Even leaving aside the legality of the morning after pill, why if life begins at conception is it ok to use it? Do you think the right to travel should be repealed? If it isn't, should women who kill their unborn children be prosecuted on return?


  • Options
    #348
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,524 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    You can dress the argument up anyway you like, but on demand abortion in Ireland is wrong.

    It's either right everywhere, or wrong everywhere.
    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    Pill, Condoms, morning after pill.. We have sexed up our society, and we are incapable of living with the consequence of our actions.

    What's wrong with the pill, condoms, MAP or indeed sex?
    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    Sex has consequences at many levels. Emotional (mainly for girls), Physical or Medical (if you can't something that can't be cured).

    You have some rather odd ideas, to say the least. It's relationships, not just sex that can have emotional consequences, and that goes for men as much as women (or 'girls' as you would have them? :rolleyes: ) so maybe we should go back to the 50s with the parish priest and the blackthorn stick and do our best to prevent relationships as well? Sex is as emotional (or entirely non-emotional) as the people taking part make it

    The obsession with disease is something we heard a lot about in the run up to the last referendum, too.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #349
    martinjudge73
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭martinjudge73


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    It's either right everywhere, or wrong everywhere.



    What's wrong with the pill, condoms, MAP or indeed sex?



    You have some rather odd ideas, to say the least. It's relationships, not just sex that can have emotional consequences, and that goes for men as much as women (or 'girls' as you would have them? :rolleyes: ) so maybe we should go back to the 50s with the parish priest and the blackthorn stick and do our best to prevent relationships as well? Sex is as emotional (or entirely non-emotional) as the people taking part make it

    The obsession with disease is something we heard a lot about in the run up to the last referendum, too.


    You sound like the guys who used to tease me 20 years ago when I didn't get drunk with them. Sadly I'm not the recovering alcoholic with liver damage today.

    I didn't say there was anything wrong with sex or contraception.. Did I?? What I said was people don't want to accept the consequences of their actions. When you have a child on the way.. you don't kill it because its inconvenient.


  • Options
    #350
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Does the morning after pill kill an unborn child?


  • Options
    #351
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,524 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    You sound like the guys who used to tease me 20 years ago when I didn't get drunk with them. Sadly I'm not the recovering alcoholic with liver damage today.

    non-sequitur.

    I didn't say there was anything wrong with sex or contraception.. Did I?? What I said was people don't want to accept the consequences of their actions. When you have a child on the way.. you don't kill it because its inconvenient.

    But you did say this
    Pill, Condoms, morning after pill.. We have sexed up our society, and we are incapable of living with the consequence of our actions.

    So do you approve of contraception and extra-marital sex, or not? (I don't mean personally but do you accept the right of others to indulge in them?)


    Also nice dodge when you were called out on the 'abortion is wrong in Ireland' thing. The anti-choice lobby don't care what Irish women do as long as they do it offshore.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #352
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Ireland is not some "beacon" that needs to be "kept pure" while "sinful England" deals with our problems. Pregnancy should never be used as a punishment.

    Pro-life is a complete and utter lie. It's all about control of women's bodies and lives.


  • Options
    #353
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,408 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    Sex has consequences at many levels. Emotional (mainly for girls) [...]
    Martin - the 1950's called - they want their opinions back.


  • Options
    #354
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    What does our laws and Constitution say?

    This point you keep trying to hide behind actually undermines your entire argument.
    You are saying that while you see abortion itself as murder, travelling for abortion or using the MAP are not murder only because they are currently legal. Which implies that if abortion became legal in Ireland, you would not see it as murder anymore. Which means your argument against abortion is circular:

    Abortion is bad because we don't allow it and we shouldn't allow it because it is bad.


  • Options
    #355
    A_Sober_Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    martinjudge73 wrote: »
    I've worked with Special Olympics Ireland for 15 years as a volunteer... I know what Down Syndrome is.

    Yes, elective abortion is Black and White. You can't be half dead.

    Ever wonder why it raises such extreme reactions??? Its not like the gay marriage debate where many people might have decided to vote yes against their private views, at the end of the day nobody was dying and it was just a civil issue, we already had partnership laws.

    While abortion is completely another kettle of fish. Abortion on demand is a black and white issue, The child either lives or dies.

    Its an embryo that's aborted not a person


  • Options
    #356
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    Unless the 8th amendment mentioned the MAP or other forms of contraception, I don't see the relevance.


  • Options
    #357
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #358
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    Unless the 8th amendment mentioned the MAP or other forms of contraception, I don't see the relevance.

    It doesnt mention abortion either.


  • Options
    #359
    ucseae1
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ucseae1


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    It doesnt mention abortion either.

    The 8th amendment was a visionary introduction. It balances the right to life of the Child and its Mother.
    Interesting that Scotland is going to tighten up its abortion laws under devolved powers. North Ireland is holding firm against on demand abortion.


  • Options
    #360
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,884 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Somehow I don't think that there was a just "balance" between the right to life of Savita Halappanavar and her unviable foetus.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #361
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    ucseae1 wrote: »
    The 8th amendment was a visionary introduction. It balances the right to life of the Child and its Mother.
    Interesting that Scotland is going to tighten up its abortion laws under devolved powers. North Ireland is holding firm against on demand abortion.

    Wasn't visionary enough to create it in a form that wouldn't have 4 referendums at a later date despite warnings that it was a bit vague.


Advertisement