Refugees.

Emme

Titanucd wrote: »

Life in Ireland allow integration into a Muslim community in a western nation without having to fear the pressure to assimilate into Irish culture.


Thats the only thing I have an issue with here. If you move to another country you are obliged to respect that nations values.
I would also expect people to at least try and assimilate in some part to the culture of the country.

The reason that Muslims have been accepted in Ireland to date is that they have at the very least, generally speaking, interacted positively with their communities but a blanket welcome in this day and age WILL bite us very firmly on the ass.

Maybe we have been very lucky with the type of Muslim immigrants who come to Ireland. Compared to Muslim communities in other countries the Muslim comment in Ireland is relatively prosperous. Perhaps our attitude and philosophy in Ireland attracts these people. Students who come and go, middle-class professionals and people who want to work. People who would condemn the conduct of the gangs in Germany and other European countries on NYE. Some of these young men seem to have no respect for anybody. Muslim women in refugee shelters have been harassed and raped. No Muslims I have met here would condone this behavior and I don't think they would want them here giving the Muslim community a bad name.

The Royal College of Surgeons has a good proportion of Muslim students and Clonskeagh is a positive example of a Muslim community.

This makes me wonder if the so-called Muslim arrivals in Germany are part of a destabilization agenda rather than genuine Muslims looking to make a life for themselves. They were drinking and taking drugs on NYE - hardly the behavior of good Muslims.

Titanucd

Emme wrote: »

Maybe we have been very lucky with the type of Muslim immigrants who come to Ireland. Compared to Muslim communities in other countries the Muslim comment in Ireland is relatively prosperous. Perhaps our attitude and philosophy in Ireland attracts these people. Students who come and go, middle-class professionals and people who want to work. People who would condemn the conduct of the gangs in Germany and other European countries on NYE. Some of these young men seem to have no respect for anybody. Muslim women in refugee shelters have been harassed and raped. No Muslims I have met here would condone this behavior and I don't think they would want them here giving the Muslim community a bad name.

The Royal College of Surgeons has a good proportion of Muslim students and Clonskeagh is a positive example of a Muslim community.

This makes me wonder if the so-called Muslim arrivals in Germany are part of a destabilization agenda rather than genuine Muslims looking to make a life for themselves. They were drinking and taking drugs on NYE - hardly the behavior of good Muslims.

Yeah agree with all that. I suppose your last point about a destabilization agenda is what has me worried. If this element see Ireland as an easy target (which it is) and they decide to 'infiltrate' the regular Muslim community here would we be able to cope?

Emme

Titanucd wrote: »

Yeah agree with all that. I suppose your last point about a destabilization agenda is what has me worried. If this element see Ireland as an easy target (which it is) and they decide to 'infiltrate' the regular Muslim community here would we be able to cope?

Would they infiltrate the regular Muslim community here? I think it would be difficult. Did IRA terrorists infiltrate the professional Irish community in the UK? These are completely different groups of people albeit with the same religious background.

Some of the Muslims in Germany are 2nd or 3rd Turkish "Gastarbeiters", people who came to help rebuild Germany after WWII. The original Gastarbeiters would not have been graduates or professionals though some of their children and grandchildren may be now. Unfortunately some of their children and grandchildren are unemployed and disenfranchised. These are the people (or men) who have been infiltrated by radical and sexist ideals and who form gangs and congregate in ghettos and no-go areas. Poverty has a lot more to do with destabilization than religion and ideology. IF there is a destabilization agenda it will be fueled by poverty on the side of European Muslims and ethnic Europeans. The conflict in Northern Ireland was fueled by poverty on both sides. Middle class Catholics and Protestants got along fine throughout the troubles.

A major economic collapse would fuel destabilization even more.

ScumLord

Titanucd wrote: »

Life in Ireland allow integration into a Muslim community in a western nation without having to fear the pressure to assimilate into Irish culture.


Thats the only thing I have an issue with here. If you move to another country you are obliged to respect that nations values.
I would also expect people to at least try and assimilate in some part to the culture of the country.

I don't know what you mean here? No one coming here has to take on Irish values (whatever they are), they just have to obey the laws and pay their taxes.

Their religion is their own business, what they eat is their own business, what kind of music and what kind of films they consume is their own business.

I don't see what values they're supposed to take on, I don't agree with any religious values, Irish people are Catholic in name only most the time, many completely ignore all the rules of their religion. Is that what you mean? That Muslims should be more lapse in their faith like Irish people?

Do you mean they should go around playing the fiddle and speaking Irish? Should they spend more time in the pub? What are these Irish values?

Titanucd

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know what you mean here? No one coming here has to take on Irish values (whatever they are), they just have to obey the laws and pay their taxes.

Their religion is their own business, what they eat is their own business, what kind of music and what kind of films they consume is their own business.

I don't see what values they're supposed to take on, I don't agree with any religious values, Irish people are Catholic in name only most the time, many completely ignore all the rules of their religion. Is that what you mean? That Muslims should be more lapse in their faith like Irish people?

Do you mean they should go around playing the fiddle and speaking Irish? Should they spend more time in the pub? What are these Irish values?

By values I suppose I meant at least try to integrate. My point had already been made invalid to an extent by Emme's posts. Emme explained that radicalisation etc is far more likely to happen due to poverty than any deep seated religious convictions which I agree is probably correct.

But to answer your question on what values? Well the basics, Women are equals, They are allowed drive, They can dress how they want. All the other basic stuff that we here in the west that maybe would be frowned upon in some Muslim countries.

Also I have never played the fiddle and cant speak Irish doesnt mean I haven't integrated somewhat into Irish society.

Wurzelbert

Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »

Is the "current" refugee "crisis" a manufactured event?

Dunno why there isn't a CT thread on it, if there is, Mods, please delete this.

My opinion? It's too sudden, too full-on and too welcomed by our political masters to be just a confluence of events. I smell deeper interests..or it could be the dog, he is fairly damp.

at least in the case of germany it is clearly manufactured with the aim to liquidate the german people and nation as a coherent entity…
manufactured by whom and why? basically the same powers and interest groups that have waged war – military, economic and propaganda war – on and off against germany since well over a century ago…and since two major wars and complete economic annihilation could not get the job done, and later the germans could not be prevented (and try they did) from reuniting, mass immigration is now the ultimate “bloodless” weapon, accompanied by a media propaganda campaign of unheard-of proportions…and merkel and her government are but a puppets in it all…
sounds like tinfoil hat nonsense? don’t think so…too many influential people have called for the elimination of the german people one way or another…names like clemenceau, thatcher, hooton, churchill, bronfman and others come to mind…what we are witnessing today is really just the latest step in the implementation of the master plan…

Titanucd

Wurzelbert wrote: »

at least in the case of germany it is clearly manufactured with the aim to liquidate the german people and nation as a coherent entity…
manufactured by whom and why? basically the same powers and interest groups that have waged war – military, economic and propaganda war – on and off against germany since well over a century ago…and since two major wars and complete economic annihilation could not get the job done, and later the germans could not be prevented (and try they did) from reuniting, mass immigration is now the ultimate “bloodless” weapon, accompanied by a media propaganda campaign of unheard-of proportions…and merkel and her government are but a puppets in it all…
sounds like tinfoil hat nonsense? don’t think so…too many influential people have called for the elimination of the german people one way or another…names like clemenceau, thatcher, hooton, churchill, bronfman and others come to mind…what we are witnessing today is really just the latest step in the implementation of the master plan…

So do you think the whole refugee crisis is deliberately manufactured to destroy Germany? Why? If it is manufactured Is it not more likely a ploy to destabilise and destroy the west in general?

Some of this whole refugee crisis thing reeks worse than an open sewer in very high temperatures but a plot to destroy Germany? I dont understand.

ScumLord

Titanucd wrote: »

But to answer your question on what values? Well the basics, Women are equals, They are allowed drive, They can dress how they want. All the other basic stuff that we here in the west that maybe would be frowned upon in some Muslim countries.

These are basically the laws of the land though. You can't make any man respect a women, sometimes it's just ingrained in them. There are plenty of men in this country that only put up with women because they're forced to, through law. Women had to fight tooth and nail to get any level of respect in this country and it could very easily be argued the job is nowhere near completed yet.

I think Most Muslims that move to a western country know the score. They might not like seeing women wearing clothes they don't approve of but I think like hardcore Christians at worst they shake their head and move on. You're always going to get some who get more vocal and spit venom but that comes from just about any hardcore religious person, Muslim or Christian. It's a fault of their religion, they've cherry picked the mean stuff and ignored the "turn the other cheek" stuff.

Wurzelbert

Titanucd wrote: »

So do you think the whole refugee crisis is deliberately manufactured to destroy Germany? Why? If it is manufactured Is it not more likely a ploy to destabilise and destroy the west in general?

Some of this whole refugee crisis thing reeks worse than an open sewer in very high temperatures but a plot to destroy Germany? I dont understand.

well yes, it does go well beyond germany…germany is just the most obvious case as things are crystal clear and have been “officially” announced many times throughout the decades…whereas why the swedes want to go is really beyond me, must be a weird mental thing, like jantelagen related or something…
and yeah, the destruction of the western world as we know it is part of a larger agenda, too…and starting with europe, germany will have to fall in order for it all to go ahead…i also think there are several agendas at work at the same time: the one to destroy germany, another more recent one to liquidate all peoples and nations and turn humans into sheep, users and followers, then the ancient muslim agenda to take over europe, and of course a european suicidal agenda without which none of it would even be possible…germany is just the one country where all agendas come together in a way…

pueblo

Norway seems to be having an interesting time with it's new arrivals...

el diablo

Titanucd wrote: »

Life in Ireland allow integration into a Muslim community in a western nation without having to fear the pressure to assimilate into Irish culture.


Thats the only thing I have an issue with here. If you move to another country you are obliged to respect that nations values.
I would also expect people to at least try and assimilate in some part to the culture of the country.

The reason that Muslims have been accepted in Ireland to date is that they have at the very least, generally speaking, interacted positively with their communities but a blanket welcome in this day and age WILL bite us very firmly on the ass.

Well I have an issue with this website advising Muslims how to enter Ireland illegally and over stay their visas.


http://www.hijra2ireland.org/#!making-hijra/eyy4k

How to make hijra to Ireland:

Ireland is a very attractive destination for immigrants who come from all over the world. For this reason, the Irish government understands that it can create barriers for immigrants as there is very high demand for Irish residency. This section will help you understand what are the ways that can help you get into the country and begin your new life:

Getting a work permit:

In order to gain Irish residency you need to receive a work permit first. This is the most straightforward way to immigrate, and can be very complicated. Ireland is looking for skilled workers, and if you have training in a required field you can receive a work permit with relative ease in comparison to other. The full list of required professions can be found at the Irish immigration authority website (www.inis.gov.ie).

Student visa:

A common way for young immigrants to get access to Ireland is through a student visa. However, Irish authorities require that every student visa holder present a valid attendance record to prove that he is indeed a student.

Even with these restrictions using a student visa is a valid choice for anyone who needs to get initial entry to the country, even if they their college years are long behind them. Many use this method in order to buy time to plan their future in Ireland.

Staying in the country:

Immigration authorities in Ireland are very strict, however enforcement throughout the state is lacking. For this reason, you can enter the country as a tourist, student or any other way and stay without much fear of being deported. Undocumented immigrants in Ireland are plentiful, and the economic system is able to sustain them.

There are even organizations in Ireland that offer aid to undocumented immigrants and lobby for them on a national level (for a good example, visit www.mrci.ie). Ireland is truly one of the world's most accommodating nations when it comes to immigrants.

Seeking asylum

Many foreigners who are seeking a better future for themselves and their families in Ireland choose to apply for asylum. This option is good for any person who originates from a country suffering from conflict or who has a substantial fear for his life.

However, this option is also valid for anyone who chooses to apply for asylum regardless the reason. While the application is being considered, the Irish system provides all applicants with a weekly stipend, housing and education. The duration of the application process can be very lengthy with many chances to appeal unwanted decisions, and prolong the stay in the country.

Overheal

pueblo wrote: »

Norway seems to be having an interesting time with it's new arrivals...

I tried briefly looking for any news in Norway regarding islamic protests - then simply protests - and came up blank for anything current (2015 or newer). Do you have a link?

ScumLord

Overheal wrote: »

I tried briefly looking for any news in Norway regarding islamic protests - then simply protests - and came up blank for anything current (2015 or newer). Do you have a link?

The website the picture comes from is hilarious. http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/



Even the ads on the site are hilarious, your man has a shop selling bulk orders of food for your fallout shelter.

Overheal

I guess the Y'all Qaeda Militia better watch out for the government mind control beams.

SafeSurfer

Wurzelbert wrote: »

at least in the case of germany it is clearly manufactured with the aim to liquidate the german people and nation as a coherent entity…
manufactured by whom and why? basically the same powers and interest groups that have waged war – military, economic and propaganda war – on and off against germany since well over a century ago…and since two major wars and complete economic annihilation could not get the job done, and later the germans could not be prevented (and try they did) from reuniting, mass immigration is now the ultimate “bloodless” weapon, accompanied by a media propaganda campaign of unheard-of proportions…and merkel and her government are but a puppets in it all…
sounds like tinfoil hat nonsense? don’t think so…too many influential people have called for the elimination of the german people one way or another…names like clemenceau, thatcher, hooton, churchill, bronfman and others come to mind…what we are witnessing today is really just the latest step in the implementation of the master plan…

Germany lost 2 world wars. In each they were the aggressor.

The Marshall plan enabled Germany to quickly become the worlds third biggest economy less than a generation after WW2.
German reunification was ultimately supported by western powers and indeed Israel.
If the refugee crisis is a conspiracy to destroy Germany it is a Heath Robinson way of going about it.

pueblo

Overheal wrote: »

I tried briefly looking for any news in Norway regarding islamic protests - then simply protests - and came up blank for anything current (2015 or newer). Do you have a link?

Yeah I will admit the image is a bit out of date and a bit irrelevant.

I was really referring to the recent announcement by the Norweigan police that "they had lost Gronland" (a suburb of Oslo) to sharia patrols...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/norway-oslo-police-we-have-lost-the-city

also to the rape of a 3 year old boy at an immigrant centre..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/3-year-old-boy-raped-at-asylum-centre-in-norway-a6808551.html

ScumLord wrote: »

your man has a shop selling bulk orders of food for your fallout shelter.

Don't you buy in bulk for your fallout shelter?

pueblo

ScumLord wrote: »

These are basically the laws of the land though. You can't make any man respect a women, sometimes it's just ingrained in them. There are plenty of men in this country that only put up with women because they're forced to, through law. Women had to fight tooth and nail to get any level of respect in this country and it could very easily be argued the job is nowhere near completed yet.

I think Most Muslims that move to a western country know the score. They might not like seeing women wearing clothes they don't approve of but I think like hardcore Christians at worst they shake their head and move on. You're always going to get some who get more vocal and spit venom but that comes from just about any hardcore religious person, Muslim or Christian. It's a fault of their religion, they've cherry picked the mean stuff and ignored the "turn the other cheek" stuff.

(My emphasis above) The problem is they like too much.

pueblo

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The US will be a net producer of oil soon and they import most of their oil from Canada/Mexico. Instigating a war in the Middle East generally equals higher oil prices. The French/Chinese won most of the oil contracts in Iraq, which cost the US billions to invade. Syria has no oil and a war-town Iraq = more expensive oil for everyone, besides OPEC is already fairly onside with the US/EU

(My emphasis above) Higher oil prices? That prediction's not working out so well is it with oil prices plummeting.

Also, Syria does have oil.... and gas....

Wurzelbert

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Germany lost 2 world wars. In each they were the aggressor.

The Marshall plan enabled Germany to quickly become the worlds third biggest economy less than a generation after WW2.
German reunification was ultimately supported by western powers and indeed Israel.
If the refugee crisis is a conspiracy to destroy Germany it is a Heath Robinson way of going about it.

sure, that’s the “official” winners’ version anyway…reality is and has always been a tad more complex than that, or as napoleon put it "history is a set of lies agreed upon"…you probably also think charles the great (charlemagne) was french and wrocław is naturally polish…but i know that’s what they taught in school…
the marshall plan is totally overrated, other countries (uk, fr etc.) got more per capita than germany, and the only major western power that supported reunification was the us (bush sr.) while the british (thatcher) did all they could to prevent it yet were powerless in the end, and the french only gave up resistance after germany had agreed to sign away its fiscal sovereignty (the euro)…

Dohnjoe

pueblo wrote: »

(My emphasis above) Higher oil prices? That prediction's not working out so well is it with oil prices plummeting.

No major oil producing nations are being invaded. In 2003, when war was instigated, the price jumped

Also, Syria does have oil.... and gas....

Relatively small amounts, less than half a percent of total global production before the conflict

Dohnjoe

Wurzelbert wrote: »

well yes, it does go well beyond germany…germany is just the most obvious case as things are crystal clear and have been “officially” announced many times throughout the decades…whereas why the swedes want to go is really beyond me, must be a weird mental thing, like jantelagen related or something…
and yeah, the destruction of the western world as we know it is part of a larger agenda, too…and starting with europe, germany will have to fall in order for it all to go ahead…i also think there are several agendas at work at the same time: the one to destroy germany, another more recent one to liquidate all peoples and nations and turn humans into sheep, users and followers, then the ancient muslim agenda to take over europe, and of course a european suicidal agenda without which none of it would even be possible…germany is just the one country where all agendas come together in a way…

I don't get this, there's a plot to "destroy" Europe with refugees?

Tighten borders, plot foiled

There's large civil war going on in Syria, millions are displaced, not to mention large recent instability all over the region, poor economic conditions and other conflicts in the rest of the Middle East and North Africa. They are going to better countries, neighbouring Jordan has taken in 1.5 million. It's just what happens, e.g. when there was a famine in Ireland, millions of us fled and emigrated.. it wasn't some sort of plot to "destroy" the US

PVNevin

Washinghton, London, Paris, Berlin: the instigators of the slaughter from North Africa to Afghanistan.
Take a look at this short article on World Socialist Web Site- "Washington invokes hunger to promote war in Syria", and it's refernce to the Kuwaiti incubators lie.......

Concerning the Kuwaiti incubators story: this lie manufactured in the brain of a servant of Imperialism also had another message.
The implication being that Iraq was a backward country which had to steal such equipment. And therefore why would you, a concerned citizen from Europe, North America etc give your attention and efforts to defend the likes of that! Defend those savages that don't even have basic hospital equipment?
Iraq, Syria and Libya were all secular regimes. The social, economic and cultural achievements in these countries threatened the malevolent intent of the Imperialist. Hussein, Gadaffi and Assad were the pretext, not the reason for the Imperialist onslaught.

Overheal

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I don't get this, there's a plot to "destroy" Europe with refugees?

I've heard people invoke this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift

Wurzelbert

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I don't get this, there's a plot to "destroy" Europe with refugees?

Tighten borders, plot foiled

There's large civil war going on in Syria, millions are displaced, not to mention large recent instability all over the region, poor economic conditions and other conflicts in the rest of the Middle East and North Africa. They are going to better countries, neighbouring Jordan has taken in 1.5 million. It's just what happens, e.g. when there was a famine in Ireland, millions of us fled and emigrated.. it wasn't some sort of plot to "destroy" the US

yeah i know all this is not easy to comprehend, only took me a few decades…and just tightening the borders won’t really happen as it would foil the agenda…

ScumLord

pueblo wrote: »

Don't you buy in bulk for your fallout shelter?

No, I think prepping is pointless, especially in a zombie apocalypse. I started a thread on it after I made that post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057549520

regi3457

Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »

Is the "current" refugee "crisis" a manufactured event?

Dunno why there isn't a CT thread on it, if there is, Mods, please delete this.

My opinion? It's too sudden, too full-on and too welcomed by our political masters to be just a confluence of events. I smell deeper interests..or it could be the dog, he is fairly damp.

The public must be led to believe that they are living in an area of "prosperity" and that people are just dying to get in here. This way the elite class can continue to exploit the docile majority of the Eurozone as they continue to believe that their world is utopia.

ancapailldorcha

Please don't just dump links and videos here without any sort of description and opinion.

Dohnjoe

regi3457 wrote: »

The public must be led to believe that they are living in an area of "prosperity" and that people are just dying to get in here. This way the elite class can continue to exploit the docile majority of the Eurozone as they continue to believe that their world is utopia.

We are living in areas of prosperity compared to many places in the world. Especially North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa and areas in the Middle East.

regi3457

Dohnjoe wrote: »

We are living in areas of prosperity compared to many places in the world. Especially North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa and areas in the Middle East.

It is exactly these type of comparisons that keep you and everyone else blindly in line and on the economic treadmill producing more wealth for the banks & elite of this world. You are not incorrect of course because most people do live better in Ireland than in India for example but that is because the generation of wealth for the this elite by our society is so much higher in Europe than in those poor countries. A slave is a slave but even some slaves may be granted certain luxuries / freedoms from time to time if they are better slaves.

Emme

regi3457 wrote: »

A slave is a slave but even some slaves may be granted certain luxuries / freedoms from time to time if they are better slaves.

I don't want to go off topic but consider an average worker in Europe versus somebody in India who works in slave conditions. Most workers in Ireland use transport such as car, bus or train to get to work consuming oil in the process. They work all week in relatively good conditions and make a profit for their employers. They spend their wages on food and other necessities, much of which is produced by large corporations. Even though people nominally work 40 hours a week if they commute an hour each way they spend 10 hours a week "working" for oil companies. If they are paying a mortgage some of their wages goes towards enriching big banks. The money they spend on food products (as opposed to fresh unprocessed food bought from local sources) in supermarkets goes towards enriching food companies. They consume mass media produced by media companies in their spare time. If they get stressed from it all and have to take prescription drugs they are enriching drug companies. They consume electricity which is produced by large companies and may be made using oil. They have to look professional for work so they buy mass produced clothing, often produced under sweatshop conditions in countries like India. They may never stop to think about this or that mass media products such as flatscreen TVs, tablets and phones are produced in sweatshop conditions by workers in other countries.

The best "slaves" in Europe and America consume lots of oil, electricity, prescription drugs, mass media and food products as well as putting in a long working week.

The sweatshop worker in India works longer hours in worse conditions. They may not have the same disposable income as the European or American worker but all workers spend their time producing equal wealth for their "masters".

A self-sufficient agrarian society is a nightmare for the "masters". An organic farmer who owns his or her source of production, is self-sufficient or buys local produce only. They may use a minimal amount of oil on the farm but they don't consume nearly enough to keep the "masters" happy.

If we all decided to live like the Amish in the morning it would be the ultimate nightmare for the "masters".

Back to refugees. If suitably qualified refugees in Europe are willing to do the work Europeans currently do for less money this makes the "masters" even richer. In the meantime arms companies are profiting from the wars and disputes which have forced the refugees from their homes. It isn't just arms companies that profit from war, food companies and other contractors also benefit. This is why there is always a war of some sort going on in the world. Look at the countries involved in those wars and you will see the origin of some of the companies that benefit from organised conflict.