Refugees.

Massimo Cassagrande

Is the "current" refugee "crisis" a manufactured event?

Dunno why there isn't a CT thread on it, if there is, Mods, please delete this.

My opinion? It's too sudden, too full-on and too welcomed by our political masters to be just a confluence of events. I smell deeper interests..or it could be the dog, he is fairly damp.

Massimo Cassagrande

The comments are flowing in thick and fast...as per usual with CT fanboys...all 20:20 on the past, not so 20:20 on the present.

DamagedTrax

i think that during war times, families flee. i also think that plenty of militants will be fleeing. whether they are intentionally placed is an interesting proposition.

i think its too early to tell... but so far every picture of a militant/refugee that ive seen, has been debunked quite clearly.

StringerBell

There is nothing sudden about it. It has been coming since the drought and the subsequent government reaction.

Overheal

Who do you think it's manufactured by?

I heard some concern that among the refugees, there may in all likelihood be Militant-Minded people among them. It could be a handful or a hundred, or none.

If it is manufactured, I expect it is manufactured by Middle Eastern influencers, not Western.

Massimo Cassagrande

Overheal wrote: »

Who do you think it's manufactured by?

I heard some concern that among the refugees, there may in all likelihood be Militant-Minded people among them. It could be a handful or a hundred, or none.

If it is manufactured, I expect it is manufactured by Middle Eastern influencers, not Western.

But why the sudden volte-face on EU policy?

Last month it was "Sorry, but you must go home" after a drawn out process of hoop-jumping for people looking to enter...Now, suddenly, it's doors wide open, come one, come all, welcome.

That, to me is a deliberate and fundamental shift. A policy shift if you like. And Policies only get shifted by the powers that be. So, why the policy shift? Is it mere expediency, or is there a more sinister motive? Or even just a sneaky motive? Or is this just another triumph of Political laziness/stupidity?

Overheal

May be a situation thats been brewing far longer though, heres a timeline i found to catch up on the events dating back to 2011

http://syrianrefugees.eu/?page_id=163

Massimo Cassagrande

So would it be safe to assume that I'm alone in thinking this is going to end waaaay badly? Next to nothing by way of coverage in the media of violent clashes involving "refugees" and police/locals/other "refugees"...absolute tsunami-levels in terms of numbers following behind the initial influx and seemingly little or no will to impose law/order/border regulations for fear of being branded "racist" on the part of the authorities.

To me, this won't end well.

j80ezgvc3p92xu

Something is fishy alright. How are all these people affording the exuberant fees the smugglers are charging for the sea transit?

Anyway, thought this was interesting. The apocalyptic novel Camp of the Saints depicts pretty much the same scenario as what we are experiencing: the mass immigration of milions of third world refugees into Europe with exuberant support of the media. The refugees are coming by boats. Where it gets weird? The book was written in 1973.( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Camp_of_the_Saints)

Another place to dig is to check out a guy called Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi. An influential count who advocated reducing the world population to one race. Wrote a few books, I believe he was influential with the League of Nations before the war.

A Primal Nut

It's interesting that the rich gulf countries have said no to refugees while at the same time have offered to build mosques for the new refugees in Germany.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/saudi-arabia-offers-germany-200-mosques--one-for-every-100-refugees-who-arrived-last-weekend-10495082.html

Saudi have always wanted to use their own money to spread Islam around the world and this is their perfect opportunity. So in that sense this is playing into their hands. I think they've had a large role in creating many of these refugees with the purpose of encouraging more muslims to go to Europe.

The media have gone along with it because they are afraid of being called racist.

Why the policy shift with Angela Merkel? I can't really say.

Dohnjoe

Kaleb Noisy Gout wrote: »

Something is fishy alright. How are all these people affording the exuberant fees the smugglers are charging for the sea transit?

Those are the ones that can afford it. It's a market price, which means it's set at the highest point that those numbers can afford.

Those that can't afford it are in other countries, Jordan for example, where there are nearly a million refugees in a country with a population of 6 million. There are 1.5 million in Turkey.

Wurzelbert

A Primal Nut wrote: »

[...]
Saudi have always wanted to use their own money to spread Islam around the world and this is their perfect opportunity. So in that sense this is playing into their hands. I think they've had a large role in creating many of these refugees with the purpose of encouraging more muslims to go to Europe.

my thoughts exactly

A Primal Nut wrote: »

The media have gone along with it because they are afraid of being called racist.

the result of decades of media brainwash

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Why the policy shift with Angela Merkel? I can't really say.

that’s an interesting one alright, i am sure there's some sort of foreign intervention behind that, a phone call from washington or so…after all, weakening germany has always been on the agenda for certain interest groups…

StringerBell

Overheal wrote: »

May be a situation thats been brewing far longer though, heres a timeline i found to catch up on the events dating back to 2011

http://syrianrefugees.eu/?page_id=163

As I have already said, there is nothing sudden about this.

StringerBell

Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »

So would it be safe to assume that I'm alone in thinking this is going to end waaaay badly? Next to nothing by way of coverage in the media of violent clashes involving "refugees" and police/locals/other "refugees"...absolute tsunami-levels in terms of numbers following behind the initial influx and seemingly little or no will to impose law/order/border regulations for fear of being branded "racist" on the part of the authorities.

To me, this won't end well.

You are certainly not alone but there is a couple of different ways to go about it, would you consider yourself to be more of a rational thinker or would you align yourself with the likes of britains first etc

Of course there is scope to consider the negative implications of any mass refugee crisis, there is also fear mongering and bull****.

Massimo Cassagrande

StringerBell wrote: »

You are certainly not alone but there is a couple of different ways to go about it, would you consider yourself to be more of a rational thinker or would you align yourself with the likes of britains first etc

Of course there is scope to consider the negative implications of any mass refugee crisis, there is also fear mongering and bull****.

I think, unless you happened to be an unfortunate Hungarian or Greek, with thousands of dissafected Refugees in the street right outside your home, it would be hard to fully come to a conclusion. My own vague view is that it is a disaster in the making that will bite the whole of Europe on the a55. Tsunamis are never good, whether consisting of water or people.

Lord Riverside

The Irish youth that all fecked off over the last few years need to be replaced.

fartingforfun

Posted this elsewhere should have been here.
Think long term.
The USA lost the Vietnam war because the civilians back in the states where against the war after they seen TV footage of innocent Vietnamese civilians getting killed. Military wise the USA could have wiped the floor with the North Vietnamese, but the public at home did not have the stomach for it.
Present day, the oil is in the middle east, the USA/EU want it, the way to get it all and keep it out of the hands of the Chinese is to invade and take it by force.
So the lessons from Vietnam are now put in effect, create the "Mad Muslim" who wants to kill all westerns, allow ISIS to grow and become pure evil, now flood the EU with muslims, a few terrorists attacks from some of these new european muslims, keep pushing the idea of "Mad Muslims" leave to simmer for a few years before you bring to the boil.
"The only way to protect our freedoms is if we take the war to ISIS and invade"
The public in USA/EU will by now agree with the politicians, and when the news video from this new war shows civilians getting killed, we in the west won't care.
"All those Muslims are mad, better to kill them before they kill us"

Massimo Cassagrande

fartingforfun wrote: »

Posted this elsewhere should have been here.
Think long term.
The USA lost the Vietnam war because the civilians back in the states where against the war after they seen TV footage of innocent Vietnamese civilians getting killed. Military wise the USA could have wiped the floor with the North Vietnamese, but the public at home did not have the stomach for it.
Present day, the oil is in the middle east, the USA/EU want it, the way to get it all and keep it out of the hands of the Chinese is to invade and take it by force.
So the lessons from Vietnam are now put in effect, create the "Mad Muslim" who wants to kill all westerns, allow ISIS to grow and become pure evil, now flood the EU with muslims, a few terrorists attacks from some of these new european muslims, keep pushing the idea of "Mad Muslims" leave to simmer for a few years before you bring to the boil.
"The only way to protect our freedoms is if we take the war to ISIS and invade"
The public in USA/EU will by now agree with the politicians, and when the news video from this new war shows civilians getting killed, we in the west won't care.
"All those Muslims are mad, better to kill them before they kill us"

Yup - pretty much what I reckon in a nutshell..

Massimo Cassagrande

Lord Riverside wrote: »

The Irish youth that all fecked off over the last few years need to be replaced.

Get a new schtick. That one is gone stale. And dull.

Dohnjoe

fartingforfun wrote: »

Present day, the oil is in the middle east, the USA/EU want it

The US will be a net producer of oil soon and they import most of their oil from Canada/Mexico. Instigating a war in the Middle East generally equals higher oil prices. The French/Chinese won most of the oil contracts in Iraq, which cost the US billions to invade. Syria has no oil and a war-town Iraq = more expensive oil for everyone, besides OPEC is already fairly onside with the US/EU

Lord Riverside

Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »

Get a new schtick. That one is gone stale. And dull.

The truth is never stale and dull, unless of course you're afraid of hearing it.

Joe1919

Islamic State reveals it has smuggled THOUSANDS of extremists into Europe

I think there is a possibility that this crisis is deliberately manufactured.......a sort of ISIS Trojan horse so to speak! Should we take the risk?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees

Overheal

Joe, this is being slated as the biggest refugee crisis since Rwanda. Millions of people, a majority of which are children. Even 4000 refugee/sleeper-terrorists would be 0.004% of 1 million people. It is also a claim made by ISIS, which in all other likelihood could be declaring that number to - unsurprisingly - invoke fear. If they wanted to actually sneak people in, why advertise?

_Tombstone_

The Staggering Scale of Germany’s Refugee Project

DEATH IN SYRIA

Massimo Cassagrande

Now Hungary has seen the light and closed its borders. I reckon that's a "phew, TBTG" event tbh. Any bets on how badly Hungary will get slapped by the right on element of Europe? Or the ones that sought this influx in the first place?

ancapailldorcha

Joe1919 wrote: »

I think there is a possibility that this crisis is deliberately manufactured.......a sort of ISIS Trojan horse so to speak! Should we take the risk?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees

If the Express told me that the sky was blue, I'd look up. I don't trust it for a second.

Overheal

Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »

Now Hungary has seen the light and closed its borders. I reckon that's a "phew, TBTG" event tbh. Any bets on how badly Hungary will get slapped by the right on element of Europe? Or the ones that sought this influx in the first place?

That sounds like a side-discussion more relevant to politics.

barney4001

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/24-refugees-arrive-at-former-hotel-in-kildare-1.2352894?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2F24-refugees-arrive-at-former-hotel-in-kildare-1.2352894


sorry i had said the indo earlier

Titanucd

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If the Express told me that the sky was blue, I'd look up. I don't trust it for a second.

Yeah I'd feel the same way about the 'Express'.

That said we would be very naive to think that there aren't SOME Jihadis planted in among the genuine refugees.

Dohnjoe

Titanucd wrote: »

Yeah I'd feel the same way about the 'Express'.

That said we would be very naive to think that there aren't SOME Jihadis planted in among the genuine refugees.

They wouldn't even need to, most European terrorist attacks have been carried out by domestic nationals

Radicalisation doesn't have borders

uck51js9zml2yt

barney4001 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/24-refugees-arrive-at-former-hotel-in-kildare-1.2352894?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2F24-refugees-arrive-at-former-hotel-in-kildare-1.2352894


sorry i had said the indo earlier

The hazel hotel has been run down for years with nothing going on except local events. I assume it was a case of close down with job losses or open it up to refugees.

youtube!

I definitely think there is something pre-planned about the whole thing, very sudden movement of masses of seemingly well fed healthy young males predominantly. Also the recent Russian "little green men" soldiers operating in Syria is very suspicious. In my opinion Syria is being deliberately de-stabilised with the intention of it being partitioned off and it could end up very badly for the world as a whole, I do not exaggerate when I use the term WW3 .

_Tombstone_

youtube! wrote: »

In my opinion Syria is being deliberately de-stabilised with the intention of it being partitioned off and it could end up very badly for the world as a whole, I do not exaggerate when I use the term WW3 .

how?

fyfe79

fartingforfun wrote: »

Posted this elsewhere should have been here.
Think long term.
The USA lost the Vietnam war because the civilians back in the states where against the war after they seen TV footage of innocent Vietnamese civilians getting killed. Military wise the USA could have wiped the floor with the North Vietnamese, but the public at home did not have the stomach for it.
Present day, the oil is in the middle east, the USA/EU want it, the way to get it all and keep it out of the hands of the Chinese is to invade and take it by force.
So the lessons from Vietnam are now put in effect, create the "Mad Muslim" who wants to kill all westerns, allow ISIS to grow and become pure evil, now flood the EU with muslims, a few terrorists attacks from some of these new european muslims, keep pushing the idea of "Mad Muslims" leave to simmer for a few years before you bring to the boil.
"The only way to protect our freedoms is if we take the war to ISIS and invade"
The public in USA/EU will by now agree with the politicians, and when the news video from this new war shows civilians getting killed, we in the west won't care.
"All those Muslims are mad, better to kill them before they kill us"

I agree with this. However, I would've thought that the actions of ISIS alone would be enough to support an invasion of Syria/Iraq. An influx of refugees is overkill, imo. I think there's an effort to de-stabalize Europe as well. Merkel knew full well what she was doing when she said "all refugees welcome" - it's caused another massive influx. Even Tony Abbott said that not opening Australia's borders was the humane decision as the migrants would no longer dangerously travel by boat, risking death. Of course, that's just the excuse he used, he was unlikely to admit "we just don't want them here". Why de-stabalize Europe? I'm not sure. Ask the boys at the very top, whoever they may be.

ByfocalPhoto

They get to safe countries then keep going to even better ones.
The young male percentage is waaay too high.
They seem to think rioting and throwing rocks a police will get them what they want.

No sympathy left I am afraid.
Next plane home.

This is not migration it's invasion.

Dohnjoe

Many do stop in inferior countries, we just hear/see the ones who are trying to get to countries which have far better conditions for refugees like Germany and Sweden

SNAKEDOC

If i were aa isis commander i would be telling my fighters to disguise yourself and get to europe. Wait for instructions and lets blow some **** up. It is not at all far fetched to assume that there are terrorists mascurading as refugees and it is naive to assume all is fine. I am worried that this country shows itslef as an easy target security wise as hiw easy was it for two deputy ministers to waltz onto a secured aprin at shannon airport in protest of US planes using the airport. Imagine those two were actually two twenty something males in fit condition with military training supplied with explosives and weapons by former IRA. Isis beingg in contact with them through mutual friends the libyians. There goes the neighbourhood not to mention Irish American relations.

Herb Powell

None of this makes any sense lads.

ISIS in disguise??? FFS. Sure didn't most of them come from Europe to begin with? Why the fucck would they suddenly abandon the territory they've fought for, to attempt to attack a much larger, much more well armed, geographically unrelated territory, which they'll have great difficulty getting back into?

Wise up a bit, ffs.

Overheal

Herb Powell wrote: »

None of this makes any sense lads.



ISIS in disguise??? FFS. Sure didn't most of them come from Europe to begin with? Why the fucck would they suddenly abandon the territory they've fought for, to attempt to attack a much larger, much more well armed, geographically unrelated territory, which they'll have great difficulty getting back into?



Wise up a bit, ffs.

Well you have to remember that groups like that don't just have this ambition like "OK we want all this for ourselves but we're going to stop at these predetermined borders" they want a caliphate that one day would span the globe - either everyone will be muslim or under muslim rule, essentially. In the more present term, they want nations that interfere with them out of their business. The best way to do that as they see it is destroy them, one way to do that could be asymmetrical warfare which has been the case for a couple decades now.

SNAKEDOC

Whats the best way to stop airstrikes these days if you dont have air superiority. Its wrote in the art if war. You break your enemies will to fight. No if 100 odd isis fighters managed to get to wirope or britian or france and started reeking havoc killing onnocent civilians then the masses would get fairly sick of it fairly quick popularity for the ongoing effort in suria and iraq would deminish and politicians dont like fighting unpopular wars. Terrorism has been a very effective tool and isis are in a position to take full advantage. Remember after 9/11 people were petrified to travel airlines nearly shut down markets fell. A well planned and excuted attack in london for instance or paris would be a makor victory for isis they have huge amounts of territory but they want to convert the masses or lill them they cant do that from the dessert.

shanered

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

Whats the best way to stop airstrikes these days if you dont have air superiority. Its wrote in the art if war. You break your enemies will to fight. No if 100 odd isis fighters managed to get to wirope or britian or france and started reeking havoc killing onnocent civilians then the masses would get fairly sick of it fairly quick popularity for the ongoing effort in suria and iraq would deminish and politicians dont like fighting unpopular wars. Terrorism has been a very effective tool and isis are in a position to take full advantage. Remember after 9/11 people were petrified to travel airlines nearly shut down markets fell. A well planned and excuted attack in london for instance or paris would be a makor victory for isis they have huge amounts of territory but they want to convert the masses or lill them they cant do that from the dessert.

I think history show that the will to fight is not broken by bombing civilian populations.
Look at the German bombing of England during WW2.
If anything it strengthens resolve to go over snd finish them once and for all.

constance tench

Overheal wrote: »

Who do you think it's manufactured by?

I heard some concern that among the refugees, there may in all likelihood be Militant-Minded people among them. It could be a handful or a hundred, or none.

If it is manufactured, I expect it is manufactured by Middle Eastern influencers, not Western.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgSsM3MGLuk

Overheal

I can't view your video on my station, what is the content/abstract?

side note:

http://gizmodo.com/the-middle-east-could-become-too-hot-for-human-life-wit-1738801004

The Middle East becoming uninhabitable because of our Carbon emissions... (Americans who don't like A-Rabs should PROBABLY get on board with climate change if they don't want them moving next door, then)

Further, the entire scenario totally rings a solid bell with Dragonball Z (bear with me): just go to youtube and look up Saiyan history (particularly the Saiyans vs. the Truffles) The entire thing is basically civil/advanced people (the Truffles) and the Saiyans who are less in number, primitive, temperamental. Eventually the Saiyans get pissed off being stuck with all the pollution and poverty (in the story, the saiyans cause their own pollution - in reality, the 'truffles' cause much of the pollution..) and try to fight back, and they get away with it because they're so few in number and pull off a series of devastating 'hits' that cripples the Truffles, all timed to coincide at the same time (because of the moon, in the story). Sound familiar? Watch the video and decide for yourself. I thought it was entertaining, and genuinely wonder if the writers at the time (80s?) were actually doing a vague analogy. Could have also been about Israel v. Palestine.

oceanid

It obviously goes beyond being 'conspiracy theory' when they're so open about what they're doing.

alcaline

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

There is nothing new to see here, its all going to plan.

Dohnjoe

alcaline wrote: »

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

There is nothing new to see here, its all going to plan.

What's the plan?

constance tench

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_df5ymco0o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

Herb Powell

Any video in which Donald Trump and Nick Griffin are supposed to be the voice of reason can be regarded as complete and utter drivel.

Overheal

Herb Powell wrote: »

Any video in which Donald Trump and Nick Griffin are supposed to be the voice of reason can be regarded as complete and utter drivel.

Neither of them was a KGB agent? Don and Griffin dont show up in these videos and/or are not prolific entities in them?

Herb Powell

Overheal wrote: »

Neither of them was a KGB agent? Don and Griffin dont show up in these videos and/or are not prolific entities in them?

Eh, yes they do!

AS WELL as clips from the KGB agent interview.

The Sidewards Man

Overheal wrote: »

Neither of them was a KGB agent? Don and Griffin dont show up in these videos and/or are not prolific entities in them?

Have you a link to prove that?