Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

Green Peter

Do like Galway in 98, up once and take it home!

Xenophile

As we embark on 2016 it appears that the curse of 1951 weighs more heavily than ever.

PressRun

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Why is it that a Mayo fan like myself cannot have an aspiration to getting to an All Ireland final in a year that the draw suits them without being shot down and told to back off the pressure.

And what Mayo fan doesn't have an aspiration to get to an All-Ireland final? I don't think there's a single Mayo fan in the county that doesn't have that aspiration. But there's a difference between holding that aspiration and coming with this 'end times' talk that suggests that it all needs to happen in 2016 or it's never going to happen at all. I'd like to think the aspirations of Mayo GAA exist beyond 2016.

Stoner

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Why is it that a Mayo fan like myself cannot have an aspiration to getting to an All Ireland final in a year that the draw suits them without being shot down and told to back off the pressure.

Because so many guys are waiting in the long grass, begrudgers that want you to fail so that they can gloat if you dared make a logical argument that ends in victory for your team.
They'll come out with some over used rubbish that their kind repeat about your team that they think is true regardless of the players available eg born losers, over hyped, believed their own hype, cursed, can't close out a game etc.
Their knowledge of teams is based on how many of these sayings they know. They watch less than they read or talk about teams, they make judgements based on the one or maybe two games they saw on TV. Maybe they saw the one game you lost last year too, then you are really stuck.

As a result we as supporters fear talking about the possibility of winning, it's seen as cocky, you'd deserve to lose. We as supporters really don't want to be in the situation where we have to listen to these people if we dont win.

So we try to have a situation where we are underdogs, it's the best situation for supporters to be in, a safe zone great win but ok if you don't, at least others won't see you as being so cocky that you thought things might line up for you and you'd win.

It is about the mentality of the team. The squad, yet so many project a set of fans take on things to teams. If Fr Ted is confident of a win, it does not mean the team will become cocky. Winning squads seem to be isolated from fans opinions IMO

Fr Tod Umptious

PressRun wrote: »

And what Mayo fan doesn't have an aspiration to get to an All-Ireland final? I don't think there's a single Mayo fan in the county that doesn't have that aspiration. But there's a difference between holding that aspiration and coming with this 'end times' talk that suggests that it all needs to happen in 2016 or it's never going to happen at all.I'd like to think the aspirations of Mayo GAA exist beyond 2016.

But I don't hear anyone coming up with this 'end times' talk that you are on about.

The only point I am trying to make is that the team is getting on and that the draw suits better than the last few years.

Two factors that must not be ignored.

If they don't win, so what, its just another year that Mayo did not win the All Ireland.
I have been through 40+ such years and I'm still in good physical and mental health.

Fr Tod Umptious

Xenophile wrote: »

As we embark on 2016 it appears that the curse of 1951 weighs more heavily than ever.

Explain

Stoner

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Two factors that must not be ignored.

I agree, this is an easier run, a better run than last year. Mayo should get there with a full squad, for example Lee Keegan should not have to play as close to the line up until the final. So less likely to have lads missing or killing themselves for a win.

This Mayo team can handle Donegal and have beaten this Dublin team in the championship. Only Kerry should be a mind game issue.

This team is well ahead of anything they will see before they reach knockout football imo. Unless there is a serious improvement in the fittness of the Roscommon lads, because last year they didn't have the conditioning that Horan put into your lads and they brought that through.

Most likely we are going to hear this BS about Mayo being untested for the next 9 months. You are due a handy run, last year was a nightmare.
Now and then these things happen, it's why Kerry seem to get the odd handy all Ireland, they were able to show up for one serious game in the past and win, apart form the first part of the 1990's they are usually there or there abouts so statistically they put themselves in the position Mayo may potentially be in this year more than any other team. It's a benefit of being there or there about for 4 or 5 years.

If I was a gambling man I'd put money on Mayo. I think last year took a lot out of Kerry, putting two in a row is statistically difficult for any team, Mayo are the masters at beating Donegal and you may only have to play one of them. Plus you are less worried about the quality of Roscommon and they have a new set-up. I can't remember a better set of recent conditions Mayo.

So being confident can be backed up imo. The team could win next year too, but we all know that's not the attitude your lads will have or want to have.

If I wasn't superstitious I'd put money on Mayo.
I know in left out , Tyrone, Monaghan and a others, but this is based past on the current/recent winning opposition, it's about being confident not certain.

mayo.mick

Xenophile wrote: »

As we embark on 2016 it appears that the curse of 1951 weighs more heavily than ever.

What utter BS

PressRun

Stoner wrote: »

So being confident can be backed up imo. The team could win next year too, but we all know that's not the attitude your lads will have or want to have.

If I wasn't superstitious I'd put money on Mayo.
I know in left out , Tyrone, Monaghan and a others, but this is based past on the current/recent winning opposition, it's about being confident not certain.

There are plenty of people who at least feel optimistic about next year. That being said, it doesn't serve anyone to be getting ahead of ourselves. And furthermore, what I don't like is the attitude that they have to win because of what happened with the previous management, and that if they don't, it will somehow 'prove' something, and that they'll never win if they don't win next year. This is talk I've heard from people within the county. As far as I'm concerned, the issue with the previous management is over and doesn't need further discussion as we move on, and I'm not a believer in pressuring anyone about anything anyway. I trust that the people involved already know what's ahead and don't need reminding.

Fr Tod Umptious

PressRun wrote: »

There are plenty of people who at least feel optimistic about next year. That being said, it doesn't serve anyone to be getting ahead of ourselves. And furthermore, what I don't like is the attitude that they have to win because of what happened with the previous management, and that if they don't, it will somehow 'prove' something, and that they'll never win if they don't win next year. This is talk I've heard from people within the county. As far as I'm concerned, the issue with the previous management is over and doesn't need further discussion as we move on, and I'm not a believer in pressuring anyone about anything anyway. I trust that the people involved already know what's ahead and don't need reminding.

What do you consider "getting ahead of ourselves". ?

Based on what we have seen from this team over the past 5 seasons All Ireland final participation is the level they have set expectations at.

Audioslaven

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What do you consider "getting ahead of ourselves". ?

Based on what we have seen from this team over the past 5 seasons All Ireland final participation is the level they have set expectations at.

To be fair. press run has a point. Imagine if the manager came out and said we are expecting to get to the final because we have an easier route. I would imagine everyone on here would be going WTF is he at. It would be shut your mouth and do the talking on the pitch. It fine to say the end goal is to win the all ireland but this is the same as other counties.

To me this is all hot air and blowing up more hot air under the pressure that is already there.... add in the C&H push and the negative impact this has had on the players from the media.

Talk like this offers no benefit and has only negative implications. I think there is nothing easy once you get to August weekend, provided they make it

Fr Tod Umptious

Audioslaven wrote: »

To be fair. press run has a point. Imagine if the manager came out and said we are expecting to get to the final because we have an easier route. I would imagine everyone on here would be going WTF is he at. It would be shut your mouth and do the talking on the pitch. It fine to say the end goal is to win the all ireland but this is the same as other counties.

To me this is all hot air and blowing up more hot air under the pressure that is already there.... add in the C&H push and the negative impact this has had on the players from the media.

Talk like this offers no benefit and has only negative implications. I think there is nothing easy once you get to August weekend, provided they make it

Explain to me what is wrong with the fan base having the expectation of this team getting to an AI final, based on their history and the possible route to that final ?

I don't expect anything other than, "we ae just looking at the next game" from management and players when in public.

But I'm sure, in private, they have their plans on having a big say I All Ireland final day.

It's Mayo e are talking about, not Roscommon, or Galway, or Cavan or some other second tier crowd.

Audioslaven

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Explain to me what is wrong with the fan base having the expectation of this team getting to an AI final, based on their history and the possible route to that final ?

I don't expect anything other than, "we ae just looking at the next game" from management and players when in public.

But I'm sure they have their plans on having a big say I All Ireland final day.

It's Mayo e are talking about, not Roscommon, or Galway, or Cavan or some other second tier crowd.

That's the sort of talk that has gone on for years and we have not won it - That's the history that counts and none of this final crap or loosing in the semi. They have not delivered the main prize for many years and that is the history that every supporter should imprint in their head and none of this hot air stuff.

I think you answered your own question when a manager would offer "we are just looking at the next game" as he is playing smart. I don't think you are and blowing the heads of other supporters who buy into this talk.

Mayo are one of the top tier but the likes of roscommon or galway will be gunning to take them out. They are a good team but nothing is guaranteed and planning the route to the final is setting yourself up for a fall. It also leads to complacency. I hope the players don't read your posts.

Fr Tod Umptious

Audioslaven wrote: »

That's the sort of talk that has gone on for years and we have not won it - That's the history that counts and none of this final crap or loosing in the semi. They have not delivered the main prize for many years and that is the history that every supporter should imprint in their head and none of this hot air stuff.

I think you answered your own question when a manager would offer "we are just looking at the next game" as he is playing smart. I don't think you are and blowing the heads of other supporters who buy into this talk.

Mayo are one of the top tier but the likes of roscommon or galway will be gunning to take them out. They are a good team but nothing is guaranteed and planning the route to the final is setting yourself up for a fall. It also leads to complacency. I hope the players don't read your posts.

Probably the most pathetic post I have ever read here.

Me sitting here in my house should be "playing smart" and not expressing my opinion that Mayo are good enough to get to a final cos I may be blowing the heads of other fans.

Grow up and have a bit of confidence in your team (if they are your team).
An have a bit of respect for the players that they are wise enough at this stage be be insulated from the opionins of fans on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter.

Anthony Larry said it very well on a Newstalk podcast last year, and I'm paraphrasing, "fans should never apologise for getting excited about their football team"

PressRun

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What do you consider "getting ahead of ourselves". ?

Based on what we have seen from this team over the past 5 seasons All Ireland final participation is the level they have set expectations at.

Thinking we have teams beat before we've even set foot on a pitch. Whatever about the personal aims of the team, I'm sure they won't be thinking solely about the destination and thinking nothing of the journey.

Tbh, I think you're getting a bit defensive, as if you're the only one who has confidence in the team or believes they can get to a final. As I've said more than once on here, I'm optimistic about next year and I think Mayo will have a good championship. I simply don't buy into the "now or never" talk.

Fr Tod Umptious

PressRun wrote: »

Thinking we have teams beat before we've even set foot on a pitch. Whatever about the personal aims of the team, I'm sure they won't be thinking solely about the destination and thinking nothing of the journey.

Tbh, I think you're getting a bit defensive, as if you're the only one who has confidence in the team or believes they can get to a final. As I've said more than once on here, I'm optimistic about next year and I think Mayo will have a good championship. I simply don't buy into the "now or never" talk.

But when you look at the draw you can start to make educated guesses on the outcome.

London in London - Win
Galway in Castlebar -Winnable
Ros/Sligo etc in Castlebar -Win
A side qualifier - Win (Could be Kerry, interesting)
Ulster Champ/B side qualifier - Winnable

And tell me what is wrong with doing that on the 29th of December ?

The now or never bit in bold ?

When did I ever say that ?

And s for getting defensive, I'm not, I'm getting more aggressive and agitated with some of the negitave BS from so called Mayo fans around here

Oldtree

I hope to see a huge rotation of players over the next 6 matches, 50 players were spoken to and I hope they all get at least a half match each to prove themselves. A bit of competition for places will keep everybody on their toes over the comming season.

I'd like to see two big backs and two big fast forwards as a starting point, how many OS's are there

Roll on Sunday

Fr Tod Umptious

Oldtree wrote: »

I hope to see a huge rotation of players over the next 6 matches, 50 players were spoken to and I hope they all get at least a half match each to prove themselves. A bit of competition for places will keep everybody on their toes over the comming season.

I'd like to see two big backs and two big fast forwards as a starting point, how many OS's are there

Roll on Sunday

With the possible exception of Durkan and Sweeney a!d anyone coming back from injury that needs game time, I'd rather not see any of the panel that were available v Dublin in Sept play in the FBD.

Plenty of time for them in the league to start getting runs.

seligehgit

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But when you look at the draw you can start to make educated guesses on the outcome.

London in London - Win
Galway in Castlebar -Winnable
Ros/Sligo etc in Castlebar -Win
A side qualifier - Win (Could be Kerry, interesting)
Ulster Champ/B side qualifier - Winnable

And tell me what is wrong with doing that on the 29th of December ?

The now or never bit in bold ?

When did I ever say that ?

And s for getting defensive, I'm not, I'm getting more aggressive and agitated with some of the negitave BS from so called Mayo fans around here

Father Tod I always enjoy your posts but I think that's a tad harsh.Other posters/supporters are expressing valid opinions re the balance between realistic expectations and overconfidence.Stoner made some very good points,many as always will be very quick to imply unwarranted arrogance in our direction if we fail to win SAM.It will always be the case until same is secured.

Certainly it is a realistic expectation that this Mayo team can depending on the draw reach an All Ireland final at the minimum but that's not what we crave for..

However teams in Connaught will be gunning for us,new management in Roscommon,one never knows with the Tribesmen in spite of the talk of ruile buile in the camp.As you mentioned yourself it's a possibility that we could meet Kerry in the quarter finals....

Down through the history of sport complacency,overconfidence amongst supporters can permeate through to teams.This Mayo team is indeed a very professional outfit and not very likely to taken in by public opinion but they are human.As you've said the players that have come through from the 2006 under 21s/team in general are coming close to the end of their cycle.So as we've been saying for a few years now this team may be in the last chance saloon.

Stephen Rochford has indicated that he very much wants to take it one game at a time.

As PressRun mentioned if we don't succeed in 2016 it will not signal the coming of armageddon for Mayo football.It may well signify the start of a less successful period for Mayo football.I tend to be optimistic and believe we can have a relatively smooth transition as some of our talisman enter into the autumnal phase of their careers,davegrohl mentioned some of the undoubted talent that lies in Mayo club football.Hopefully we'll see some of the successful minors of 2013 in the near future injury free and shan't be waiting until 2022.The media spin that the players must win the All Ireland after the management coup is totally unfair and is not something the vast majority of Mayo supporters would adhere to.They believe these players are the one's who do all the hard graft/leave nothing on the field of play,expect the best and are extremely professional.They owe us nothing,hopefully next year they will be good enough to secure the big prize.At the present time Dublin will take some stopping.

Whatever happens Mayo supporters will continue to support their team irrespective of the team's perceived success.

I'm really looking forward to Sunday and viewing some of the new talent especially amongst the forwards and full back line.

PressRun

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm getting more aggressive and agitated with some of the negitave BS from so called Mayo fans around here

Right. You're the only real Mayo fan around here. :rolleyes:

Fr Tod Umptious

PressRun wrote: »

Right. You're the only real Mayo fan around here. :rolleyes:

I'm not and I never said I was.

But I'm not going to be told to cool my enthusiasm for this season by someone who is afraid I'll pollute the population with my positive attitude.

PressRun

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm not and I never said I was.

But I'm not going to be told to cool my enthusiasm for this season by someone who is afraid I'll pollute the population with my positive attitude.

Nobody is telling you to do anything. There's a discussion being had about striking a balance between getting carried away and feeling optimistic about the future. People are allowed to disagree with you and you're not the only one here with a positive attitude just because you hold a different opinion.

Audioslaven

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Probably the most pathetic post I have ever read here.

Me sitting here in my house should be "playing smart" and not expressing my opinion that Mayo are good enough to get to a final cos I may be blowing the heads of other fans.

Grow up and have a bit of confidence in your team (if they are your team).
An have a bit of respect for the players that they are wise enough at this stage be be insulated from the opionins of fans on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter.

Anthony Larry said it very well on a Newstalk podcast last year, and I'm paraphrasing, "fans should never apologise for getting excited about their football team"

What's pathetic about my post. Mayo are a serious outfit but nothing is set in stone and there is a lot of turns to an final e.g Dublin in 2014. We don't need another final. We need to win it and until that day comes, the history is we are losing in finals and semis.

This should never be taken as a negative but a driving force to make the additional step, drive on and find a way... I do think Rochford and the players look on it this way and I pray to god they don't think the final is an easy ride

You comments are just the kind of stuff we don't need and James Horan was the first manager in a while to knock that kind of **** out of Mayo. I don't particular think it adds anything to the equation only sets you up for a fall
but if you want to sprout these idiotic comments then fire away.

Fr Tod Umptious

Audioslaven wrote: »

What's pathetic about my post. Mayo are a serious outfit but nothing is set in stone and there is a lot of turns to an final e.g Dublin in 2014. We don't need another final. We need to win it and until that day comes, the history is we are losing in finals and semis.

This should never be taken as a negative but a driving force to make the additional step, drive on and find a way... I do think Rochford and the players look on it this way and I pray to god they don't think the final is an easy ride

You comments are just the kind of stuff we don't need and James Horan was the first manager in a while to knock that kind of **** out of Mayo. I don't particular think it adds anything to the equation only sets you up for a fall
but if you want to sprout these idiotic comments then fire away.

This is what is pathetic

...he is playing smart. I don't think you are and blowing the heads of other supporters who buy into this talk.

What is going on in your mind that you think that a person posting on the internet his confidence that Mayo can get to an All Ireland final is in some way going to inflate some sort of super hype bubble above in Mayo that will infiltrate possibly the most professional bunch of players we have ever seen and result in them losing their minds ?

The bit in bold in more of it.

I'm an normal citizen for God's sake, not even living in Mayo
And I'm basing my enthusiasm on this squads history and the draw that we have in front of us.

What is so wrong with having a rational look at the year ahead and making a judgement call that that an All Ireland final is a strong possibility, all other things being equal.

You remind me of my mother
Any time they lose a game other than the All Ireland the first thing she says is "well at least they lost now instead of getting hammered the next day"

Agggggghhhhh........

Fr Tod Umptious

seligehgit wrote: »

Father Tod I always enjoy your posts but I think that's a tad harsh.Other posters/supporters are expressing valid opinions re the balance between realistic expectations and overconfidence.Stoner made some very good points,many as always will be very quick to imply unwarranted arrogance in our direction if we fail to win SAM.It will always be the case until same is secured.

Certainly it is a realistic expectation that this Mayo team can depending on the draw reach an All Ireland final at the minimum but that's not what we crave for..

However teams in Connaught will be gunning for us,new management in Roscommon,one never knows with the Tribesmen in spite of the talk of ruile buile in the camp.As you mentioned yourself it's a possibility that we could meet Kerry in the quarter finals....

Down through the history of sport complacency,overconfidence amongst supporters can permeate through to teams.This Mayo team is indeed a very professional outfit and not very likely to taken in by public opinion but they are human.As you've said the players that have come through from the 2006 under 21s/team in general are coming close to the end of their cycle.So as we've been saying for a few years now this team may be in the last chance saloon.

Stephen Rochford has indicated that he very much wants to take it one game at a time.

As PressRun mentioned if we don't succeed in 2016 it will not signal the coming of armageddon for Mayo football.It may well signify the start of a less successful period for Mayo football.I tend to be optimistic and believe we can have a relatively smooth transition as some of our talisman enter into the autumnal phase of their careers,davegrohl mentioned some of the undoubted talent that lies in Mayo club football.Hopefully we'll see some of the successful minors of 2013 in the near future injury free and shan't be waiting until 2022.The media spin that the players must win the All Ireland after the management coup is totally unfair and is not something the vast majority of Mayo supporters would adhere to.They believe these players are the one's who do all the hard graft/leave nothing on the field of play,expect the best and are extremely professional.They owe us nothing,hopefully next year they will be good enough to secure the big prize.At the present time Dublin will take some stopping.

Whatever happens Mayo supporters will continue to support their team irrespective of the team's perceived success.

I'm really looking forward to Sunday and viewing some of the new talent especially amongst the forwards and full back line.

I've calmed down, I just feel sorry for some of the fans that feel they have to repress any sort of positive thinking for fear it will cause contagion in the county.

The only team ion recent years that have suffered from hype in Roscommon in 2015, and Mayo are a long way ahead of Roscommon in the mental game.

Dublin used to suffer from it, but not since Gilroy and Gavin took over, their loss to Dongeal had little to do with believing their own hype, and their loss to Mayo in 2012 even less.

I myself have been writing off this team since they lost the 2013 final.
For both 14 and 15 I have been concerned that they would not be able to go back to the mental and physical well after two tough final losses, the thought of a Connacht loss to Galway or Roscommon and a qualifier loss on a wet Saturday up north were always in my mind.
But as it turned out neither Galway or Roscommon have improved much in those years and Mayo have kept up the same levels.

However a couple of things in recent months have made me more confident for 2016
The draw is one of them, not having to face Dublin or Kerry at the SF stage helps (but it must be noted that they could meet Kerry at the QF stage if they or Kerry lose their provincial final and win their 4th round)

The other thing is something I heard on the Mayo News podcast before the quarter final or semi final last year.
They were talking about Higgins and the point was made that Higgins made it very clear to anyone who wanted to listen that there was no question of him or other members of this team not getting back on the horse for 2016 if 2015 was not a championship win.
That was good to hear, as has been said before they have put a lot in over the last 5 years and they are not getting any younger, but they still have the drive.
And tied in with that was their willingness to dump a management team that had got them to a SF replay v the best team in the country in their first year.
I said it here H&C were appointed that an SF loss v Dublin would not be a bad outcome for a first year in charge.
It has to count for something that so many players did not think that they were on the right track, regardless of how far they reached in the championship.

And I'm not is this phantom camp of All Ireland or bust that a certain poster around here claims to exist.
If they fail in 2016 lest see what is in the bag for 2017.

ProudDUB

Nothing anyone says on the internet matters a damm imo. So everyone is perfectly entitled to think and say what they want about Mayo's prospects for 2016, without being called idiotic or pathetic.

Unless you are the close friend, partner, work colleague, relation, mentor, neighbour etc etc of one of the panel, you have absolutely zero chance of influencing anything to do with the players mental states in 2016. And even if you are one of those select few people, any pressure or expectations levels that you may bring to the table, are nothing compared to the pressure that the players & mgt put on themselves.

Mayo will either fix what went wrong for them in previous years (some of it is fixable, some of it isn't imo,) or they won't. What people say on the internet about it all, doesn't matter one single iota. So chill out peeps.

PressRun

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I've calmed down, I just feel sorry for some of the fans that feel they have to repress any sort of positive thinking for fear it will cause contagion in the county.

I haven't seen anyone "repressing" positive thinking. I think everyone here is feeling very optimistic about Mayo's chances next year.

Fr Tod Umptious

PressRun wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone "repressing" positive thinking. I think everyone here is feeling very optimistic about Mayo's chances next year.

Ah come on.
There is a poster here saying that by me expressing my rational assessment of the year to come, i.e a possible final place, I am sprouting iditioc comments.
And that those comments are "blowing the heads of supporters"
If that's not repression of positive thinking what is ?

I've never read such nonsense in my life.

PressRun

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ah come on.
There is a poster here saying that by me expressing my rational assessment of the year to come, i.e a possible final place, I am sprouting iditioc comments.
And that those comments are "blowing the heads of supporters"
If that's not repression of positive thinking what is ?

I've never read such nonsense in my life.

I wouldn't call anything you've said "idiotic", and I think that poster's choice of language probably wasn't the best, but people have different ways of expressing their optimism about the year to come. Just because someone doesn't want to indulge in the 'easy route to the final' talk or doesn't want to discuss September before the new year has even arrived doesn't mean that they still don't feel excited about the possibilities for the coming year. I believe there was a discussion here before about the 'one game at a time' approach and some were advocates of that. If someone believes in that approach, that doesn't mean that they're not engaging in positive thinking or are somehow more negative than someone who wants to imagine Mayo in a final now.

PressRun

ProudDUB wrote: »

Unless you are the close friend, partner, work colleague, relation, mentor, neighbour etc etc of one of the panel, you have absolutely zero chance of influencing anything to do with the players mental states in 2016.

I think you'd be surprised by how small Mayo is! Plenty of people would be connected to members of the panel in one or more of the ways you've suggested. :pac: