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All Stars Hurling 2015

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    #122
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    citykat wrote: »
    TdB didn't have to mark anyone.


    That would be the least you would expect of somebody with a role free from the shackles of having to mark somebody.


    If you have basic ball control, you can play sweeper. Get the ball and hit it back down the field.



    So marking an inter county forward is easier than playing sweeper? I beg to differ on that score.


    Bottom line: a sweeper plays in space and has nobody to mark. Any player would put their hand up for that role.

    citykat wrote: »
    It would have been an achievement for Callinan to have scored from play that day given that TdB was playing 15 yds behind the FB all game.

    so on one hand TDB has to mark no one and all he does is hit the ball down the field, yet on the other hand you are saying he was directly responsible for Callinan not scoring from play. Does that not say anything to you?


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    #123
    citykat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    JimboJones99 wrote: »
    As a Kilkenny man, I think you are being a bit unfair on De Burca. If you ask a lot of inter county defenders which they would prefer, to man mark or play as a spare man, I guarantee a fair proportion of them would say man mark. I'm not saying I think it is easier to man mark than play as a sweeper but it certainly isn't for everyone. Not everyone is comfortable with having the responsibility of being the spare man and thus expected to be on the end of every ball.

    There is also much more to a sweeper than just get the ball and hit it down the field. We are blessed in KK that our defenders generally have had that luxury because of our forwards ability to win primary possession (Even if we have had to change it a little in the past couple of years) but Waterford do not have that calibre of forward and so they cannot just hit it as far as they can and expect to win games. Therefore the onus was on De Burca to launch the attacks using clever ball and basically set up counter attacks as I said earlier, he was expected to be on the end of every ball. Therefore IMO not only was he one of Waterfords most important defensive players but also offensive players

    For a 20 year old to be asked to take on this responsibility and perform it to the standard he did. I thought he deserved the all-star and YPOTY.

    In the Galway/Kilkenny minor semi final this year, Galway deployed a sweeper in both the drawn and replay games. That sweeper cleaned up a lot of loose ball in both games. I don't believe there's an age limit on sweepers.

    Once TdB got his nomination, I posted here that I thought his performances didn't merit nomination. I went and rewatched the Munster final and AI SF as I had been told here that he played well in both. Having rewatched both games, I stand by my view. That might seem harsh and personal but that's the downside of individual awards like all stars.


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    #124
    citykat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    citykat wrote: »
    It would have been an achievement for Callinan to have scored from play that day given that TdB was playing 15 yds behind the FB all game.
    bruschi wrote: »
    so on one hand TDB has to mark no one and all he does is hit the ball down the field, yet on the other hand you are saying he was directly responsible for Callinan not scoring from play. Does that not say anything to you?

    If you read my original post again, you can see that's not what I'm saying. Callinan was effectively marking two players as any ball that went over the FB line was straight through to the sweeper. In a normal situation i.e. no sweeper, he would have at least a 50:50 chance of getting onto such a ball.


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    #125
    Mountainlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    citykat wrote: »
    In the Galway/Kilkenny minor semi final this year, Galway deployed a sweeper in both the drawn and replay games. That sweeper cleaned up a lot of loose ball in both games. I don't believe there's an age limit on sweepers.

    Once TdB got his nomination, I posted here that I thought his performances didn't merit nomination. I went and rewatched the Munster final and AI SF as I had been told here that he played well in both. Having rewatched both games, I stand by my view. That might seem harsh and personal but that's the downside of individual awards like all stars.

    There is an age limit to everyone playing in a minor semi final?


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    #126
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    citykat wrote: »
    If you read my original post again, you can see that's not what I'm saying. Callinan was effectively marking two players as any ball that went over the FB line was straight through to the sweeper. In a normal situation i.e. no sweeper, he would have at least a 50:50 chance of getting onto such a ball.

    that still makes no sense. plus it is inaccurate. but you have stated your views on De Burca across multiple threads already, so it is pointless to continue debating the merits of his role as a sweeper.


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    #127
    JimboJones99
    Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭JimboJones99


    citykat wrote: »
    In the Galway/Kilkenny minor semi final this year, Galway deployed a sweeper in both the drawn and replay games. That sweeper cleaned up a lot of loose ball in both games. I don't believe there's an age limit on sweepers.

    Once TdB got his nomination, I posted here that I thought his performances didn't merit nomination. I went and rewatched the Munster final and AI SF as I had been told here that he played well in both. Having rewatched both games, I stand by my view. That might seem harsh and personal but that's the downside of individual awards like all stars.

    I agree with your second paragraph, everybody is entitled to their own personal view and fair enough if you think he didn't deserve one.

    But your first point makes absolutely no sense what so ever in relation to the argument.


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    #128
    thinkstoomuch1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,276 ✭✭✭thinkstoomuch1


    JimboJones99 wrote: »
    I agree with your second paragraph, everybody is entitled to their own personal view and fair enough if you think he didn't deserve one.

    But your first point makes absolutely no sense what so ever in relation to the argument.

    I'd agree totally the kk poster is entitled to hes view and he's opinion and I think he makes some valid points
    Imo burca deserved he's all star as yes was marking space as a sweeper but he brought huge important to hes team and donnellan won all star as sweeper as did Johnny Coen winning young hurlers year three years ago when he imo played a sweeper role


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    #129
    citykat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    JimboJones99 wrote: »
    I agree with your second paragraph, everybody is entitled to their own personal view and fair enough if you think he didn't deserve one.

    But your first point makes absolutely no sense what so ever in relation to the argument.
    JimboJones99 wrote: »

    For a 20 year old to be asked to take on this responsibility and perform it to the standard he did. I thought he deserved the all-star and YPOTY.

    This is your original quote. The point I was trying to make, that made absolutely no sense to you, was that playing the sweeper role well is not age dependent. If a minor could do it, it should be no bother to somebody 2/3 yrs older. In fact, I imagine that is why TdB was chosen for the role. He's a fine hurler in space but when he came into contact, he tended to come off second best.


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    #130
    Mountainlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    citykat wrote: »
    This is your original quote. The point I was trying to make, that made absolutely no sense to you, was that playing the sweeper role well is not age dependent. If a minor could do it, it should be no bother to somebody 2/3 yrs older. In fact, I imagine that is why TdB was chosen for the role. He's a fine hurler in space but when he came into contact, he tended to come off second best.

    I couldn't count how many tackles he broke, that's nonsense.

    18 year olds can play well when they are playing well against 18 year olds is your point. Throw that Galway minor in against Tipp and Kilkenny, we'll see how he gets on. No comparison.


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    #131
    JimboJones99
    Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭JimboJones99


    citykat wrote: »
    This is your original quote. The point I was trying to make, that made absolutely no sense to you, was that playing the sweeper role well is not age dependent. If a minor could do it, it should be no bother to somebody 2/3 yrs older. In fact, I imagine that is why TdB was chosen for the role. He's a fine hurler in space but when he came into contact, he tended to come off second best.

    Ah here, if you cant distinguish the difference between a 20 year old playing amongst senior hurlers i.e fully developed men as opposed to an 18 year playing amongst minors i.e other 17-18 year olds, then there is no point continuing this conversation


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