Are cats one of the top predators in Ireland

Eddie B

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

I know this is a thread on cat predation in Ireland, but I'm not letting this one go particular on the off chance that someone might think it's a good idea to try snaring a nuisance cat..
I hate snares, so called stop or not..have you ever seen the state of a fox that has been in a stop snare for ,say, ten hours? The hedge or ditch that it has been caught in will kook like a JCB has been at it ..I have seen foxes in stop snares with the nails and pads gone from their feet from hours of terrified digging in their efforts to escape..disgusting and inhumane..
For what it's worth I have a fox cage trap you can have , it's homemade and works very well, if you arrange it's relocation from Wicklow to Mayo..

That's simply not true! I hate when people give out false information! Fox's don't "dig for hours terrified!" Simply not true! Pads gone from their feet WTF! A fox can dig an earth many feet deep, no problem! SNARING on ditches is bad practice, because a fox could end up hanging from a fenceline e.t.c, and that would be inhumane! Snaring is legal, and if done PROPERLY, its humane! Obviously you'll get the idiots setting snares illegally and inhumanely, but you get idiots in every walk of life!

OpenYourEyes

Mod Note: Ok, we've had a point and a counter-point made about snaring foxes, lets bring the thread back to cats. I know these discussions tend to drift slightly from their original topics, but lets leave the non-cat stuff at that.

Capercaillie

BWI did on good job on the cats on Tory Island a couple of years ago. They got all pet cats neutered. They set humane traps and caught all the feral cats. Every one of the Islanders who had pet cats put a collar on their cats and photos were given to the trappers so any pet cats were released. Feral cats were humanely euthanised. Easier to do in a confined space.

aaakev

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Now back to the cats..cat flu is quite a virulent and contagious disease and will very quickly knock over a malnourished animal. I have seen it rampant in farmyards where cats are given the odd drink of milk and nothing else and are expected to make up the rest of their diet from rodents but if the rats and mice are gone the inevitable happens. So I'd assume it poses a real threat to feral cats and only those that escape it are the strongest and most successful so of course they do the most damage.

The cats I shot seemed healthy and well fed for the most part, there is a school nearby so plenty of food there to subsidise if hunting was scarce and i would imagine a few people from a housing estate that is cut from a corner of one of the fields were leaving food out or throwing scraps over their back walls because i used to see a lot of them hanging around near there and there was lots of chicken bones in the area.

A jack russle or 2 in a farm yard would be just as good if not better than cats at keeping the rodents at bay

Zoo4m8

That's right, even my sheepdog is a good ratter even if her size is a disadvantage at times. I have rarely needed to use poison and have stopped now anyway as there are Barn Owls about the last couple years.
Years ago there were six or seven cats in this yard , all they seemed to do was look for any chance to sneak into the house , the rat population stayed more or less the same so I don't subscribe to the myth ' if you have rats get a cat' .
Make sure rats have no access as much as possible to food and clear sheds of clutter so they have no cover to nest, it all helps .
As I said before there are little or no feral cats in this neck of the woods but yard cats and 'if you have rats get a cat ' cat that survive cat flu, mange etc must add a lot to the feral populations particularly away from towns.

Jayzesake

Capercaillie wrote: »

BWI did on good job on the cats on Tory Island a couple of years ago. They got all pet cats neutered. They set humane traps and caught all the feral cats. Every one of the Islanders who had pet cats put a collar on their cats and photos were given to the trappers so any pet cats were released. Feral cats were humanely euthanised. Easier to do in a confined space.

As Capercaille says, removing an invasive animal species is easier on an island, since once gone, they can't simply recolonise from an ajdacent area, as can happen on a larger land mass. Also, moving a little further afield than Ireland, there is often much more at stake on an island in biodiversity terms, as remoter island ecosystems often evolved without predators, leaving native species with little or no defenses against an introduced exotic. And because of having evolved independently, island species are very often endemics, so if they become extinct on that island, they're extinct in the wild globally. Hawaii is a disaster from the point of view of invasive species driving extinctions: apparently if you go there, you'll be lucky to see almost any native species of plant, insect or bird unless you scramble up remote inaccessible ravines in the mountains.

Here's an interesting paper about successful cat eradication programmes on 87 islands throughout the world:

http://www.biodivrestoration.co.nz/assets/Uploads/Cat-Eradication-Review.pdf

"Of the 87 successful campaigns, eradication methods are known for 66 (76%). On average, each campaign employed 2.7 eradication methods including leg-hold traps (68%), hunting (59%), primary poisoning (31%), cage traps (29%), and dogs (24%) (Appendix 1)."

Poisoning would be a no-no here in Ireland as it would risk affecting other, non-target, species (as well as being illegal), but on an island with no native predators presumably that's not an issue. One important point the authors make is that consideration should first be given to how other damaging invasive species may react to the removal of cats:

"Before cat eradications are planned, potential positive and negative impacts should be considered in any feasibility analysis. Mitigation actions such as the eradication of other introduced species may also need to be planned. Mixed ecosystem responses to eradication are not restricted to cats (Zavaleta et al. 2001; Campbell and Donlan 2005). In addition to considering potential negative impacts on conservation values, managers should also consider the sequence in which invasive species are removed, and plan eradications so that the removal of one species will not complicate or prevent the future removal of another."

I suppose what that means is that if rats, for example, were also introduced, then they may need to be taken out of the equation before the cats, otherwise their numbers may increase in the absence of the cats, also damaging native wildlife.

recedite

aaakev wrote: »

By the way, im not going around shooting pet cats, these are wild feral cats

I'm just wondering, how do you know the difference between a "feral cat" and a "domestic cat" when its out walking across a field at night?

syklops

recedite wrote: »

I'm just wondering, how do you know the difference between a "feral cat" and a "domestic cat" when its out walking across a field at night?

Well first off, very few hunters hunt at night. Cats hunt at night, humans hunt early in the morning and during the day.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

recedite wrote: »

I'm just wondering, how do you know the difference between a "feral cat" and a "domestic cat" when its out walking across a field at night?

A domestic cat should not be walking in fields at night!

Capercaillie

syklops wrote: »

Well first off, very few hunters hunt at night. Cats hunt at night, humans hunt early in the morning and during the day.

Fox control by shooting is almost always done at night.

Desmo

Mickeroo wrote: »

Cats have been around for so long as to be considered natural at this stage imo.

But not in anything like the numbers we have now.

aaakev

recedite wrote: »

I'm just wondering, how do you know the difference between a "feral cat" and a "domestic cat" when its out walking across a field at night?

Its easy enough to tell, they act completely different and when you're used to an area you get to know the local wildlife and cats are no different so you know the pets

syklops wrote: »

Well first off, very few hunters hunt at night. Cats hunt at night, humans hunt early in the morning and during the day.

Actually your wrong, you will mostly meet cats when out lamping at night. What your hunting will dictate what time of day or night your out. Most foxes will be shot under a lamp at night as thats when they are most active although they are out during the afternoon and evening this time of year

syklops

aaakev wrote: »

Actually your wrong, you will mostly meet cats when out lamping at night. What your hunting will dictate what time of day or night your out. Most foxes will be shot under a lamp at night as thats when they are most active although they are out during the afternoon and evening this time of year

:rolleyes:

Capercaillie

syklops wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Don't shoot myself, but it is easier to shoot a fox lamping than to shoot one during the day.

OpenYourEyes

I've never heard of anyone serious about fox control that doesn't do it at night lamping, and I can imagine you'd come across cats when doing it.

aaakev

syklops wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Would you like to try that again or do you actually have an opinion?

syklops

aaakev wrote: »

Would you like to try that again or do you actually have an opinion?

I said very few hunters. I didn't no hunters.

Can we agree that aside from lampers, most other hunters don't hunt at night?

aaakev

syklops wrote: »

I said very few hunters. I didn't no hunters.

Can we agree that aside from lampers, most other hunters don't hunt at night?

We are talking about cats here and most lads that would shoot a cat would do it while shooting foxes and lamping.

I think your underestimating how many lads go lamping

syklops

aaakev wrote: »

I think your underestimating how many lads go lamping

Maybe so.

dodderangler

aaakev wrote: »

We are talking about cats here and most lads that would shoot a cat would do it while shooting foxes and lamping.

I think your underestimating how many lads go lamping

Off the top of my head of all times lamping I've seen maybe two cats at night but all the cats I've shot were all in evening and first thing in morning.
And I've shot a fair amount.
Cats aren't pets IMO and should they be out in my lands whether someone claims to own them or not they'll get it. Any farmers I know will tell me what cats to shoot or not. If they tell me they've two cats of certain colour around the yard ad want to keep them around il leave them but anything other than the ones described are fair game

Capercaillie

dodderangler wrote: »

Off the top of my head of all times lamping I've seen maybe two cats at night but all the cats I've shot were all in evening and first thing in morning.
And I've shot a fair amount.
Cats aren't pets IMO and should they be out in my lands whether someone claims to own them or not they'll get it. Any farmers I know will tell me what cats to shoot or not. If they tell me they've two cats of certain colour around the yard ad want to keep them around il leave them but anything other than the ones described are fair game

If you know they are somebodies pet I would not be shooting them. Saying cats are not pets is a bit ridiculous. I have a cat and he's most certainly a pet.

recedite

aaakev wrote: »

Its easy enough to tell, they act completely different and when you're used to an area you get to know the local wildlife and cats are no different so you know the pets..

How do they act differently? A pet cat acts in kitten-like way when its in the house with its owner. Then when it goes outside hunting, it behaves like a cat; it stalks like a hunter.
So you think you know what pets everyone owns in that area. And you're not too concerned if somebody gets a new pet without telling you, or happens to be looking after somebody else's pet temporarily while the owner is away. Just shoot it. Nobody will find out who did it anyway, just another pet animal gone missing.

OpenYourEyes

Mod Note: Okay, I think this thread has long run its course at this stage.