Are cats one of the top predators in Ireland

Riverireland

Mod Edit: Banned for a week for backseat moderation. If you have a problem with a post you report it or message a Mod, you don't go onto the thread and tell a Mod what to do.

Riverireland

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Obviously the fact that we brought them here in the first place is the most unnatural thing about it all, but the continuing problem is that they aren't subject to any sort of selection pressure at all - we give them food and shelter. They go out and hunt and kill stuff and often don't eat it. If they go out and fail to kill something, that's no problem because they can just go to a nearby house and get looked after. Even 'feral' cats live off stealing food from more domesticated cats, or from other food sources left out by humans. The situation with cats in most countries is thoroughly unnatural and problematic in my opinion.

An argument could be made for many species brought to places like Ireland by humans hundreds and thousands of years ago in that they've established themselves here and now play a similar role to what they do in their native range, and are subject to the same population dynamics as 99% of the other species here - but that's not the situation with cats.

Or cows or sheep, pigs, chickens, horses, dogs etc etc. seriously!!!

aaakev

Riverireland wrote: »

I think it's your fellow moderator aaakev, you need to be watching regarding his comments. Absolutely disgusting going out shooting cats!!!

Just because you don't agree doesn't make it disgusting. Have you any idea the damage unchecked feral cats can do? Shooting is a very humane way to deal with the problem

By the way, im not going around shooting pet cats, these are wild feral cats

Jayzesake

Riverireland wrote: »

I think it's your fellow moderator aaakev, you need to be watching regarding his comments. Absolutely disgusting going out shooting cats!!!

If, as is often the case, shooting is the only way to control or eliminate a population of an invasive species that is wiping out native species on an industrial scale, as cats are doing in many places, then it is anything but disgusting: it is the only responsible and ethical thing to do.

Of the 29 native species made extinct in Australia in the last 200 years, cats have been responsible for all but 9, and dozens more are at risk. The Australian government plans to control their numbers by shooting 2 million of them.

To my mind, it would be far more disgusting, cowardly and irresponsible to stand by and do nothing, particularly as it was us who introduced cats there and everywhere else.

aaakev

Jayzesake wrote: »

If, as is often the case, shooting is the only way to control or eliminate a population of an invasive species that is wiping out native species on an industrial scale, as cats are doing in many places, then it is anything but disgusting: it is the only responsible and ethical thing to do.

Of the 29 native species made extinct in Australia in the last 200 years, cats have been responsible for all but 9, and dozens more are at risk. The Australian government plans to control them by shooting.

To my mind, it would be far more disgusting, cowardly and irresponsible to stand by and do nothing.

A lot of people have blinkers on when it comes to cats and i get that, i have a pet cat im quite fond of too, but, she is kept in at night and early in the morning when birds are in their nests and is aloud out in our garden under supervision during the day. We got her neutered as soon as she was big enough and she never goes where we cant see her.

But feral cats are different and people need to realise that, they are not the cute pets they know. I think people doing TNR have their hearts in the right place but their not using their heads, releasing a cat back into the wild only kills more native wildlife. Their time would be better spent trapping and and euthanising. There were so few birds especially ground nesting ones in the area where i shot a load of ferals, now the place is alive. The difference is amazing!

syklops

Cecil the Feral cat?

aaakev

syklops wrote: »

Cecil the Feral cat?

Shot by a poacher not a hunter

Jayzesake

aaakev wrote: »

There were so few birds especially ground nesting ones in the area where i shot a load of ferals, now the place is alive. The difference is amazing!

You probably didn't realise it at the time, but you were engaged in an act of restoration ecology. Well done.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

aaakev wrote: »

Shot by a poacher not a hunter

And hardly comparable nor relevant.

aaakev

Jayzesake wrote: »

You probably didn't realise it at the time, but you were engaged in an act of restoration ecology. Well done.

I was just asked to take care of the problem by the landowners, they lost a load of lambs to toxoplasmosis and the vet who came out to check the herd said it was because of the cats. The lads said there was never cats around until about 4 years previous, they were either a few dumped or strays that set up shop then multiplied as cats do so efficiently.

It took a couple of years before it changed but it was worth it, rabbits are starting to make a comeback now too, don't remember seeing one before the cats were taken care of.

I think they are the top predictor in Ireland simply because of their numbers, mink would be worse but the numbers just aren't there (thankfully) to cause as much damage

syklops

Aubrey Stocky Tungsten wrote: »

And hardly comparable nor relevant.

I was referring to the poster earlier who considered shooting feral cats to be cruel and usual.

Perhaps my position wasn't clear, I am all for the culling of feral cats.

magicbastarder

one thing that has always bugged me about the reporting on the damage cats do is that (from what i've seen, which may not be representative) they tend to focus on the number of birds/rodents killed by cats; but this does not account for the disruption a cat may cause in terms of preventing nesting/breeding etc.

i've always found the notion odd that a neighbour's cat can come into my garden and kill as many of the garden birds i am trying to feed/attract, as it wants; and theoretically i can take no action other than deterrence.
we have a cat, but she's a housecat and has not been outside the house in over six years.

Birdnuts

dodderangler wrote: »

If it's such a concrete fact then why aren't we allowed to shoot them as vermin?

Feral cats can be legally shot - just like any other feral animal such as goats etc.. However it is of course important to ensure the animal is indeed feral and ownerless from a legal standpoint.

OBaoghil.7

mick145 wrote: »

Where I live, which is the countryside, is mainly inhabited by rabbits, small birds, hedgehogs, hares and all kinds of small rodents which are basically defenceless against mine [and other] pet cats which often roams the fields surrounding my house and hunts these animals often leaving a Rather nice trophy at my front door which could consists of one the mentioned above..

This kinda got me thinking weather you would consider a cat to be one of the top apex predators in the Irish countryside. Now I know a cat wouldn't have much chance against a fox or perhaps even a mink but when you think of how little native dangerous wildlife actually live in the Irish countryside.

I remember reading an interesting article about this subject quite some years ago. Apparently cats have been very popular throughout the world and have been killed "en masse" for many reasons. More recently it seems, they were killed for their perceived association with witchcraft and millions were slaughtered throughout Europe. The study claimed that the cat population has more than recovered in Europe to the extent that they (cats) are now having a serious negative impact on wildlife. I am not sure if this would be specifically relate to us here in Ireland? The Ferrell cats do a good job around the farms etc I suppose there are more private dwellings with pets cats now and despite being well fed still enjoy the kill.

ThunderCat

OBaoghil.7 wrote: »

I remember reading an interesting article about this subject quite some years ago. Apparently cats have been very popular throughout the world and have been killed "en masse" for many reasons. More recently it seems, they were killed for their perceived association with witchcraft and millions were slaughtered throughout Europe. The study claimed that the cat population has more than recovered in Europe to the extent that they (cats) are now having a serious negative impact on wildlife. I am not sure if this would be specifically relate to us here in Ireland? The Ferrell cats do a good job around the farms etc I suppose there are more private dwellings with pets cats now and despite being well fed still enjoy the kill.

With the absence of a feral cat around a farm, presumably the local fox would do a decent job of killing rodents around a farm too?

Mickeroo

ThunderCat wrote: »

With the absence of a feral cat around a farm, presumably the local fox would do a decent job of killing rodents around a farm too?

Cats much less likely to go for livestock though like chickens or young lambs.

Capercaillie

Hunting cats in the long road will never control numbers. The way forward would be to develop a virus that would selectively kill domestic/feral cats. Pet owners could vaccinate their cats, everything else would die.

Zoo4m8

Birdnuts wrote: »

Feral cats can be legally shot - just like any other feral animal such as goats etc.. However it is of course important to ensure the animal is indeed feral and ownerless from a legal standpoint.

Exactly, and IMO from a human point of view as well, there is no point in causing distress by disposing of somebody's cherished pet that has just happened to have wandered through the hedge..

Capercaillie

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Exactly, and IMO from a human point of view as well, there is no point in causing distress by disposing of somebody's cherished pet that has just happened to have wandered through the hedge..

Shooting pet's is a good way of losing any goodwill in protection of endangered wildlife/livestock.

junospider

In a study done in england,they concluded that over 70% of all wildlife killed,was killed by cats!

magicbastarder

source?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

junospider wrote: »

In a study done in england,they concluded that over 70% of all wildlife killed,was killed by cats!

That's a nonsense figure, as all wildlife would be wiped out in a few years if 70% were killed by cats every year. In Britain it is estimated, however, that cats kill 275 million birds and mammals each year.

Mickeroo

Aubrey Stocky Tungsten wrote: »

That's a nonsense figure, as all wildlife would be wiped out in a few years if 70% were killed by cats every year. In Britain it is estimated, however, that cats kill 275 million birds and mammals each year.

They said 70% of all wildlife killed not 70% of all wildlife. I'd be interested to know where they're getting the figure from though, not that it would particularly surprise me if it's true.

Zoo4m8

Capercaillie wrote: »

Shooting pet's is a good way of losing any goodwill in protection of endangered wildlife/livestock.

True, which is why it's important that any action is taken not to a perceived threat to wildlife/livestock but only during or after an attack in which case any concerns about goodwill can safely be ignored..IMO anyway.

As this thread is about cat predation in Ireland and we appear to have wandered into the realms of irresponsible dog ownership let me drag it back..I have only my own experience to fall back on but I rarely see a stray cat on my patch or on my neighbours lands, there is also no evidence of cats on my new patch or in the yard there.

Some years ago a sheep farming neighbour asked me to dispose of three feral cats that had taken up residence in his sheds , he had no evidence of them killing birds and he never saw them about his fields, day or night ,but he had a Toxo problem with his sheep , a problem associated with cats as mentioned further up the page.

Basically what I'm trying to say is if studies from ,say the UK show that cats take a large proportation of wildlife it doesn't have to follow that we with a much smaller population and therefore much smaller number of cats have ,even relatively speaking, the same problem..

aaakev

I heard recently we could have up to 900,000 in Ireland so that is a lot!

I remember reading an article on them a year or so ago, did a quick search and found it. Didn't read the whole thing again but i think its from the us

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/outdoors/richard-collins/cats-are-the-ultimate-predators-231047.html

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

aaakev wrote: »

I heard recently we could have up to 900,000 in Ireland so that is a lot!

I remember reading an article on them a year or so ago, did a quick search and found it. Didn't read the whole thing again but i think its from the us

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/outdoors/richard-collins/cats-are-the-ultimate-predators-231047.html

FEDIAF puts pet cats in Ireland at 310,000 while the ISPCA estimates ferals at 200,000. I suspect FEDIAF underestimate but even so 500,000 would result in the killing of at least 14,000,000 birds and mammals here. And that's based on studies of kills by pet cats: ferals probably kill more.

gzoladz

Who are the natural predators of cats? Foxes? Bop? However it is would not be festing if there are so many?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gzoladz wrote: »

Who are the natural predators of cats? Foxes? Bop? However it is would not be festing if there are so many?

They don't have any natural predators.

aaakev

gzoladz wrote: »

Who are the natural predators of cats? Foxes? Bop? However it is would not be festing if there are so many?

As above, they have no natural predators just like foxes don't have either. We recently shot a big tom cat, this guy was as big as a medium sized fox and probably heavier :eek: Between him and a fox id say the cat might well come out on top.

Foxes will take a small, injured or sick cat or dog for that matter but they certainly wouldn't prey on them and bop tend to go for easier targets.

Jayzesake

gzoladz wrote: »

Who are the natural predators of cats? Foxes? Bop? However it is would not be festing if there are so many?

Cats' presence here is unnatural to begin with, and with the extinction of all of the larger native predators such as wolves, lynx and bears, only humans can control their numbers.