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Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

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    #872
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    But, that's neither here nor there.

    so lets drop this silly argument


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    #873
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    plodder wrote: »
    Really? So, the mods or admins on this site could just post your registration info, IP address (maybe showing where you work) and you'd've no reason to be annoyed about that.

    You misunderstand, im simply saying a user should be more vigilant of the content THEY choose to post publicly on social media if they are concerned about privacy.

    You can't moderate for stupidity or ignorance. You can only try educate. But at the end of the day, it's within the posters control to disclose content or not.

    I'm not quite sure where you got your other conclusion from. I'm not advocating a 3rd party posting a users details without their consent.


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    #874
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Originally Posted by plodder View Post
    Really? So, the mods or admins on this site could just post your registration info, IP address (maybe showing where you work) and you'd've no reason to be annoyed about that.

    not legally they could , they would be breaking one of the laws around data protection if they made such identifiable information public unless the originators of that information had given them the rights to do so in advance


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    #875
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    You misunderstand, im simply saying a user should be more vigilant of the content THEY choose to post publicly on social media if they are concerned about privacy.

    absolutely , you have in that regards only yourself to blame, never post anything that you wouldn't put on a poster in the main street


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    #876
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Can we get back on topic. Issues with privacy belong in the other thread.


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    #877
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭plodder


    BoatMad wrote: »
    so lets drop this silly argument
    By all means please stop nit-picking over every comment I make on this subject..

    @Ukoda. I deleted that post as I realised your point was different. Again, and with respect to the comment above, the reason for pointing this out is to stimulate discussion on the privacy implications of a unique postcode. It's absurd to pretend that there are none, or just dismiss as "user error" every time someone misunderstands it.


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    #878
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    plodder wrote: »
    By all means please stop nit-picking over every comment I make on this subject..

    @Ukoda. I deleted that post as I realised your point was different. Again, and with respect to the comment above, the reason for pointing this out is to stimulate discussion on the privacy implications of a unique postcode. It's absurd to pretend that there are none, or just dismiss as "user error" every time someone misunderstands it.

    Mod: That is a fair point, but post it in the other thread please.


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    #879
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    discussion on the privacy implications of a unique postcode. It's absurd to pretend that there are none, or just dismiss as "user error" every time someone misunderstands it.

    its a silly argument , because you can not solve the issue of large numbers of non unique addresses , without creating a pointer to a unique one.
    I would argue that my address is not private, though my identify is. ( up to a point) , but its up to me to be careful in how I distribute both my address and my identify

    the fact is as Mark Zuckerberg said, privacy is over , as he built a large wall around his house !!!

    sorry Mod: replied before I saw your edit


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    #880
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    plodder wrote: »
    By all means please stop nit-picking over every comment I make on this subject..

    @Ukoda. I deleted that post as I realised your point was different. Again, and with respect to the comment above, the reason for pointing this out is to stimulate discussion on the privacy implications of a unique postcode. It's absurd to pretend that there are none, or just dismiss as "user error" every time someone misunderstands it.

    Yes as I said, you can only educate, but you can't stop people doing it, the same way Vodafone/3/meteor/gmail etc can't stop people posting thier phone numbers and email addresses on social media. But they can tell people it's a bad idea. As eircode have done in their FAQ's, could they do more? Maybe

    And before I get banned....back on topic :)

    As discussed earlier, the forms will issue with an eircode on them

    https://twitter.com/gamma_irl/status/702817578197057536


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    #881
    moyners
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭moyners


    ukoda wrote: »
    Yes as I said, you can only educate, but you can't stop people doing it, the same way Vodafone/3/meteor/gmail etc can't stop people posting thier phone numbers and email addresses on social media. But they can tell people it's a bad idea. As eircode have done in their FAQ's, could they do more? Maybe

    And before I get banned....back on topic :)

    As discussed earlier, the forms will issue with an eircode on them

    https://twitter.com/gamma_irl/status/702817578197057536

    I wonder how they're going to ensure they have the right eircodes for the houses with non-unique addresses. Will they provide them with route maps with the houses labelled with the eircodes. It would be a good opportunity to check them for accuracy.


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    #882
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    moyners wrote: »
    I wonder how they're going to ensure they have the right eircodes for the houses with non-unique addresses. Will they provide them with route maps with the houses labelled with the eircodes. It would be a good opportunity to check them for accuracy.

    Are they pre filled in , I thought there was merely space to write in your eircode


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    #883
    moyners
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭moyners


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Are they pre filled in , I thought there was merely space to write in your eircode

    If you look at the sample form, the address section is for the enumerator to fill in. Perhaps they will just ask the householder if they know what their eircode is.


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    #884
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭plodder


    moyners wrote: »
    If you look at the sample form, the address section is for the enumerator to fill in. Perhaps they will just ask the householder if they know what their eircode is.
    It's in the 'for office use only' section. So that implies the enumerator will fill it in. I'd say the purpose is as an identifier for the form, which means the enumerator would have a separate list. I couldn't see the point in asking householders if they know it.


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    #885
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Surely (and I'm guessing here) one of the problems faced by the census up to now is getting a definitive list of households together. With so many non-unique addresses, it must have been difficult to be sure that you have covered everybody.

    If one can assume that every household has an Eircode, then presumably the Eircode database can be used to generate a list of everyone the enumerators need to visit?


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    #886
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    swampgas wrote: »
    Surely (and I'm guessing here) one of the problems faced by the census up to now is getting a definitive list of households together. With so many non-unique addresses, it must have been difficult to be sure that you have covered everybody.

    If one can assume that every household has an Eircode, then presumably the Eircode database can be used to generate a list of everyone the enumerators need to visit?

    This cencus will be the first real test of the accuracy of the Eircode database, since every inhabited postcode will be visited by an enumerator (otherwise the census will not be complete).

    I would assume that the enumerator will be given a target list of Eircodes and will tick them off as they go. In non-unique areas, they will have to ask the householder for their Eircode, and they can check them on the Eircode finder. Missing Eircodes will be apparent, and again they can check them on the Eircode finder.

    However, they could be provided with a map annotated with Eircodes.


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    #887
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    This cencus will be the first real test of the accuracy of the Eircode database, since every inhabited postcode will be visited by an enumerator (otherwise the census will not be complete).

    I would assume that the enumerator will be given a target list of Eircodes and will tick them off as they go. In non-unique areas, they will have to ask the householder for their Eircode, and they can check them on the Eircode finder. Missing Eircodes will be apparent, and again they can check them on the Eircode finder.

    However, they could be provided with a map annotated with Eircodes.

    Eircode is just a link to GeoDirectories, which has existed long before Eircode. SO its a test of Geodirectories, but then GeoDirectories has been fairly validated already


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    #888
    a65b2cd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭a65b2cd


    plodder wrote: »
    It's in the 'for office use only' section. So that implies the enumerator will fill it in.

    If those 7 boxes are for the Eircode for the household then they seem to be collecting Eircodes as part of the address of where you work as well. That would be useful for analysing commuting flows. See http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/census2016/2016censusforms/65995,English,Household_2016,New,Version,Do,Not,Complete.pdf


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    #889
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Eircode is just a link to GeoDirectories, which has existed long before Eircode. SO its a test of Geodirectories, but then GeoDirectories has been fairly validated already

    I think it is a bit more than that. The Eircode were delivered by an post. This verifies the accuracy of that.


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    #890
    a65b2cd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭a65b2cd


    Census 2011 used Geodirectory according to this article: https://www.geodirectory.ie/What-is-Geodirectory/Case-Studies/cso.aspx


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    #891
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I think it is a bit more than that. The Eircode were delivered by an post. This verifies the accuracy of that.

    Do you think the enumerators will independently verify the eircode or just take it from the householder, I would hope they should already know the eircode of the property before they knock on the door, although I'm not sure how'd they'd achieve this


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    #892
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    Just after seeing you can use your Eircode on ChecktheRegister. Not sure if that was mentioned earlier.


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    #893
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Ted_YNWA wrote: »
    Just after seeing you can use your Eircode on ChecktheRegister. Not sure if that was mentioned earlier.

    Think it depends on the council. Cork County Council doesn't support it.


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    #894
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    ukoda wrote: »
    Do you think the enumerators will independently verify the eircode or just take it from the householder, I would hope they should already know the eircode of the property before they knock on the door, although I'm not sure how'd they'd achieve this

    I have no idea. I wouor expect that they have a complete list of properties with their Eircode.


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    #895
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    swampgas wrote: »
    Think it depends on the council. Cork County Council doesn't support it.

    Oh right, Tipp CoCo did anyway.


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    #896
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I have no idea. I wouor expect that they have a complete list of properties with their Eircode.

    They should remove the 15 per day restriction on the eircode Finder for a while and give a few bob to the enumerators to use thier smart phones to verify and find the eircode of rural non unique addresses


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    #897
    a65b2cd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭a65b2cd


    ukoda wrote: »
    They should remove the 15 per day restriction on the eircode Finder for a while and give a few bob to the enumerators to use thier smart phones to verify and find the eircode of rural non unique addresses

    Maybe better to get Eircode-enabled Google Maps turned on so the enumerator could cross-check his/her enumeration area map with google maps if there is any doubt about the dwelling location or Eircode.


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    #898
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    CSO have an OSI licence, and I can't see any reason why they wouldn't have an ECAD licence. They should be able to give census enumerators printed maps marked up with Eircodes for non-unique addresses.


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    #899
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    Someone must have got a nudge on Election Day because Autoaddress are absolutely lashing out the tweets today about eircode usage

    Mostly stuff we have already mentioned here, new one being HSE have added eircode to their databases and issuing correspondence with it. Also PRTB now accepts eircode online on its site


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    #900
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭plodder


    https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/703186071857733632

    Yep, I'm sure the voters will be overjoyed at that. :pac:


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    #901
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    plodder wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/703186071857733632

    Yep, I'm sure the voters will be overjoyed at that. :pac:

    I'm a voter. When I look at that I think to myself "I hope it helps catch tax cheats out" I've no issues with revenue and no ill feelings towards them as I pay my taxes and declare what I'm supposed to and they've never bothered me


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