*********Motors Chat - Round 9 *********

Duke O Smiley

There are armed checkpoints right in our estate regularly - well, on the road in - right opposite the church. Its all a bit disturbing/frightening

Voodoomelon

Yeh lots of burglaries in the Louth area recently, it's a big clamp down, albeit a temporary one no doubt. I thought it might be related to the recent Garda death, there was an armed checkpoint in Blackrock which is incredibly unusual.

Makes me sad that you only see this around election time. The Irish Times did a piece recently on Op. Thor, the €5,000,000 odd allocated barely gives each district anything useful. A month of overtime in Dublin adds to €2,000,000 alone.

Autosport

A few gardas live out my way so I'd often see squad cars but I don't think the fiesta would frighten me too much

Dartz

Autosport wrote: »

Lots of gardai on the M9 this evening

None on the M11/N11.... :cool:

BrrrAAAPP!.... BRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAPPP!! popBANG!... BRRRRrrrrrRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPP!!...poPOP....BrrrrrRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPP.,.bzzBANG...BrrrrrrRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPP.... Br.....brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Heheh.... Heh. At least I know there's no carbon in there.

MetzgerMeister

Will ya calm the fvck down young lad, you'll wake my neighbours!

Dartz

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Will ya calm the fvck down young lad, you'll wake my neighbours!

Ah now. If I do that, I'll be far away from them and getting further.

job seeker

Dartz wrote: »

Ah now. If I do that, I'll be far away from them and getting further.

God damn wipper snapers.. *waves cane".

CIP4

Seem the "get a new x from only 161 euro a month on pcp" adverts have started already in the newspaper. It's actually so cheap but in order to get 161 euro you have a large initial and final payment. I mean if you paid over half the value of the car up front then hp would also have low monthly repayments. There would be so many less new cars sold without pcp id imagine. It's rare now that someone doesn't opt for pcp.

Dartz

PCP is a load of bollocks, really.

You're paying for the depreciation on a car while you have it, and nothing else. It still belongs to the bank/dealer - you've no capital against the thing at all.

CIP4

Dartz wrote: »

PCP is a load of bollocks, really.

You're paying for the depreciation on a car while you have it, and nothing else. It still belongs to the bank/dealer - you've no capital against the thing at all.

Well that's the thing. The only way I can see it working well is if you have the 10k euro or whatever it is balloon payment in savings to pay it off. If you have no money the dealer has you over a barrel and you end up taking another car as you can't afford to pay the balloon payment. Buying a new car every 3 years is just a waste of money your constantly paying big depreciation all the time. If I bought a new car I'd buy the top spec model with a decent engine and drive it for 5-6 years.

Id love the idea of owning something from new that would have been minded by me from the start as opposed to buying someone else's trouble. But I mean 30k euro is 30k euro it's a lot to spend on a new car. When you can buy decent secondhand cars for 10k euro and less.

Dartz

With PCP, all you're paying is the depreciation and a little bit of interest. Nothing else. So when it comes up, you're either buying the car at it's agreed market value (as a second hand car, really), or rolling into the next PCP finance. Which is fine and dandy if you want to keep in new, warrantied, cars the whole time. And are willing to accept that you never own the car - it's effectively a long-term rental. (It's also a bit of a Ponzi scheme when you think about it, really)

Owning cars is wesome. But it just gets more and more expensive.

CIP4

Dartz wrote: »

With PCP, all you're paying is the depreciation and a little bit of interest. Nothing else. So when it comes up, you're either buying the car at it's agreed market value (as a second hand car, really), or rolling into the next PCP finance. Which is fine and dandy if you want to keep in new, warrantied, cars the whole time. And are willing to accept that you never own the car - it's effectively a long-term rental. (It's also a bit of a Ponzi scheme when you think about it, really)

Owning cars is wesome. But it just gets more and more expensive.

Oh that's the way I think of it. If I was ever to do it id just buy the car out after 3 years and make sure I would have the money to pay the balloon payment. I wouldn't mind paying a car loan for 3 years but not permanently.

dar83

Bit of a simplistic view of things there lads.

PCP makes a whole lot of sense depending on what your plans are and especially if you get a 0% finance deal on it. Also the final payment is always below market value, so that you have enough leverage in the car for the dealer to easily up sell you to a new one in three years time. Unless you wreck the thing the GFV is generally 15-25% below what the actual market value will be at the time it comes to either trade it, hand it back or balloon payment it off.

Foxhole Norman

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

Yep, often see it in Douglas driven by I assume the guys wife/GF, they live up by Glanmire I think.

Just passed a black one in Mallow. 10 reg . Are ye ****ting money down your way or something? :pac:

Gavman84

The streets are paved in gold down here!!

Foxhole Norman

Snotaul Goodman wrote: »

Just passed a black one in Mallow. 10 reg . Are ye ****ting money down your way or something? :pac:

We're not doing bad for ourselves really :pac: fair whack of nice cars have popped up recently, a few M5's, an RS6, Porsches and even a Tesla.

Dartz

Gavman84 wrote: »

The streets are paved in gold down here!!

Doesn't tht get fierce slippy in the wet?

CIP4

dar83 wrote: »

Bit of a simplistic view of things there lads.

PCP makes a whole lot of sense depending on what your plans are and especially if you get a 0% finance deal on it. Also the final payment is always below market value, so that you have enough leverage in the car for the dealer to easily up sell you to a new one in three years time. Unless you wreck the thing the GFV is generally 15-25% below what the actual market value will be at the time it comes to either trade it, hand it back or balloon payment it off.

As I said works if you have the cash for the final payment as then you have options. If you have no money then the dealer has you over a barrel as you need a car so your not going to give it back you can't afford to pay it off so you have to take another new car meaning your effectively always paying a car loan. The vast majority of people I know mainly relatives who have pcp wouldn't even be able to afford 1/4 the final payment.

It seems to attract people who effectively don't have money obviously not always but a lot of times. So really it's promoting a always be in debt for a car kind of mentality. I mean the way I see it is if you can't easily get your hands on 10k or whatever the final repayment is then you shouldn't have a new car as you should be prioritising saving up some money not having a new car. 10k or even 50k euro is not that considerable amount of savings in this day and age. Just my opinion. I am always suprised how many people are in there 30s with fcuk all saved. It's sad to think that there is so many people who wouldn't be easily able to get there hands on 10k in the morning if they had too.

jprboy

CIP4 wrote: »

.... I mean 10k or even 50k euro is not that considerable amount of savings in this day and age. Just my opinion. I mean I am always suprised how many people are in there 30s with fcuk all saved. I mean it's sad to think that there is so many people who wouldn't be easily able to get there hands on 10k in the morning if they had too.....

Listen, Rip van Winkle, this is not 2007

CIP4

jprboy wrote: »

Listen, Rip van Winkle, this is not 2007

I am well aware that everyone doesn't have that kind of money. But surly if your struggling to survive on your current earning then buying a new car on pcp should surly not be your priority. To me logically you should have plenty of money going into savings before you would borrow for a new car as a new car is not a necessity.

dar83

CIP4 wrote: »

As I said works if you have the cash for the final payment as then you have options. If you have no money then the dealer has you over a barrel as you need a car so your not going to give it back you can't afford to pay it off so you have to take another new car meaning your effectively always paying a car loan. The vast majority of people I know mainly relatives who have pcp wouldn't even be able to afford 1/4 the final payment.

It seems to attract people who effectively don't have money obviously not always but a lot of times. So really it's promoting a always be in debt for a car kind of mentality. I mean the way I see it is if you can't easily get your hands on 10k or whatever the final repayment is then you shouldn't have a new car as you should be prioritising saving up some money not having a new car. 10k or even 50k euro is not that considerable amount of savings in this day and age. Just my opinion. I am always suprised how many people are in there 30s with fcuk all saved. It's sad to think that there is so many people who wouldn't be easily able to get there hands on 10k in the morning if they had too.

You forget the third option of PCP'ing, which is to refinance the final payment and continue paying off the car for another 2/3/5 years. Your interest rate may increase but for the people you're referring to, this is probably the option they choose if or when they want to get out of the lending loop.

I do somewhat agree with you on savings, but at the same time, and I don't mean this in a condescending way, but your view doesn't seem to really smack of coming from read world experience too much. I'm guessing you're probably early 20's and are starting on the road to real life. The reality is that living in the real world for the majority of people means that saving is a cyclical thing, you save you spend, you save you spend. It starts smaller when you're younger and with things like holidays/travel, then maybe a car, then it escalates into maybe wedding and further to mortgage deposit (maybe not in that order). The days of people sitting on 50k in savings just because isn't really happening these days, possibly inheritance lump sums aside. I think you might be surprised at how many people would actually struggle to get 10k in the morning if they required it, without speaking to a credit union or their bank manager that is...

CIP4

dar83 wrote: »

You forget the third option of PCP'ing, which is to refinance the final payment and continue paying off the car for another 2/3/5 years. Your interest rate may increase but for the people you're referring to, this is probably the option they choose if or when they want to get out of the lending loop.

I do somewhat agree with you on savings, but at the same time, and I don't mean this in a condescending way, but your view doesn't seem to really smack of coming from read world experience too much. I'm guessing you're probably early 20's and are starting on the road to real life. The reality is that living in the real world for the majority of people means that saving is a cyclical thing, you save you spend, you save you spend. It starts smaller when you're younger and with things like holidays/travel, then maybe a car, then it escalates into maybe wedding and further to mortgage deposit (maybe not in that order). The days of people sitting on 50k in savings just because isn't really happening these days, possibly inheritance lump sums aside. I think you might be surprised at how many people would actually struggle to get 10k in the morning if they required it, without speaking to a credit union or their bank manager that is...

I knew about taking out the loan alright but 3 year of pcp and a loan at the end means you are paying of the same car for between 5-8 year is the car really worth that amount of repaying for so long.

I kind of agree with you on savings the older you get the harder it is to save. I know that chances are the first five years of my working life will be the easiest time to save as I have no over heads, no wife, no kids, no mortgage, no wedding to pay for. So the way I see it the more money I can gather then the better. I'm 21 alright starting work in June. Plus I suppose you have to consider that not everyone is on the big bucks. The older you get with the more commitments the more difficult it is to save. Just to me if I was struggling I would hate to throw a big car loan on top of that struggle id rather buy something for 5k on a credit union loan or whatever.

dar83

Oh you're not wrong, but don't forget the guys in this forum are in a decent position to find a decent car in the cheaper price brackets. A lot of people that you refer to and that may not be 'struggling' financially as such aren't confident enough to use donedeal to find a car for their family. These people see a main dealer as the way to go, they get a warranty, they get a car without an unknown history, they get reliability and security in their own opinion. That is actually worth a lot more to some people than the gamble on a private sale or second hand car dealer (given the generalised reputation that comes with that). This is why you find a lot of people will buy new or nearly new on PCP even if they can't afford to save much.

CIP4

dar83 wrote: »

Oh you're not wrong, but don't forget the guys in this forum are in a decent position to find a decent car in the cheaper price brackets. A lot of people that you refer to and that may not be 'struggling' financially as such aren't confident enough to use donedeal to find a car for their family. These people see a main dealer as the way to go, they get a warranty, they get a car without an unknown history, they get reliability and security in their own opinion. That is actually worth a lot more to some people than the gamble on a private sale or second hand car dealer (given the generalised reputation that comes with that). This is why you find a lot of people will buy new or nearly new on PCP even if they can't afford to save much.

Well Ye there is always a risk of getting a lemon even the good lads that have knowledge can get one although have a lot smaller chance of buying one than someone who doesn't have a clue about cars. If you follow the steps get a mechanic buy a reliable model and keep it maintained you should end up having a reliable car but there is always the risk and maintenances cost are higher on secondhand cars that's the way it is. Even my Megane is going to need some money spent on it early next year it needs a service, timming belt and tyres. But I haven't spent a penny on it since I bought it. Cars are always expensive I suppose it just depends whether you choose to spend more on running costs or more on capital cost.

166man

PCP in a lot of cases seems to suit the Irish mentality of new car every few years with the low payments. 70% of BMW's sold last year in a dealership were all on PCP.

CIP you have a very narrow minded view of how the world works works if you think €50k isn't a lot of money to have saved in your thirties. You're also very fortunate if you have no overheads to pay for the next five years, most people I know that age pay upwards of €600 a month in rent along with bills etc and student loans.

power pants

ffs I actually agree

CIP4

166man wrote: »

PCP in a lot of cases seems to suit the Irish mentality of new car every few years with the low payments. 70% of BMW's sold last year in a dealership were all on PCP.

CIP you have a very narrow minded view of how the world works works if you think €50k isn't a lot of money to have saved in your thirties. You're also very fortunate if you have no overheads to pay for the next five years, most people I know that age pay upwards of €600 a month in rent along with bills etc and student loans.

I know pcp suits most people but paying 200 or 300 euro a month every month longterm seems made to me hell I know people on pcp paying 500 euro a month it all depends how much of a deposit you put down.

Maybe I phrased the 50k wrong. I didn't mean it like I have no mass on money or that 50k wasn't a substantial amount of money it is and I suppose anyone that gets married or gets mortgage is going to have a huge chunk of money swallowed up.

I wasn't considering rent as an overhead obviously I will be paying rent maybe not all out 600 euro a month but not that far off it. I am lucky to have no debt lucky my parents are in that position to put me through college. Maybe I don't have a realistic view of what people earn either I'm starting on a fairly high wage (I don't mean that in a Boastful way) and kind of assume everyone earns that when in reality not everyone does. Maybe my out look is wrong the way I always seen it was you should by right have decent savings before buying a brand new car but as dar has said often people prefer to spend the money on pcp and have a car with a warranty and low running costs even if the don't have money to pay of the balloon payments.

166man

power pants wrote: »

ffs I actually agree

Never thought I'd see the day! Maybe we can be friends?

CIP4 wrote: »

I know pcp suits most people but paying 200 or 300 euro a month every month longterm seems made to me hell I know people on pcp paying 500 euro a month it all depends how much of a deposit you put down.

Maybe I phrased the 50k wrong. I didn't mean it like I have no mass on money or that 50k wasn't a substantial amount of money it is and I suppose anyone that gets married or gets mortgage is going to have a huge chunk of money swallowed up.

I wasn't considering rent as an overhead obviously I will be paying rent maybe not all out 600 euro a month but not that far off it. I am lucky to have no debt lucky my parents are in that position to put me through college. Maybe I don't have a realistic view of what people earn either I'm starting on a fairly high wage (I don't mean that in a Boastful way) and kind of assume everyone earns that when in reality not everyone does. Maybe my out look is wrong the way I always seen it was you should by right have decent savings before buying a brand new car but as dar has said often people prefer to spend the money on pcp and have a car with a warranty and low running costs even if the don't have money to pay of the balloon payments.

I don't know what you're earning nor do I wish to know, but in Ireland most trainee/graduate accountants etc are earning mid 20's and will do so for at least a few years. Also, sales guys in dealerships mostly start out at €20k basic plus minuscule commission.

How you don't see rent as an overhead is simply beyond my comprehension though

power pants

I started off as a trainnee accountant on 13k. paying rent of 400. Had to work as a doorman for the extra cash at the time

CIP4

166man wrote: »

I don't know what you're earning nor do I wish to know, but in Ireland most trainee/graduate accountants etc are earning mid 20's and will do so for at least a few years. Also, sales guys in dealerships mostly start out at €20k basic plus minuscule commission.

How you don't see rent as an overhead is simply beyond my comprehension though

Ye that is low alright wouldn't be to easy to save much earning 20k euro unless you didn't live at all or go anywhere which wouldn't be much of a life. I mean the position I will be in is I could pay rent car insurance tax maintenance live very well and throw around a fair bit of money each week and still save 50% of my wages and that's not including bonuses or the reasonably good guaranteed pay rise I get after my first year. Hence why I was a bit slow to understand why more people don't have saving. If I was living in Dublin and not Kilkenny on 20k a year then I'd be living week to week. See I constantly forget about how expensive Dublin or cork is to live in as I am so use to Kilkenny.

Ye I suppose rent is an overhead alright a fairly substantial one especially living in Dublin it is so expensive it's madness.