Wales vs Ireland RWC warmup buildup - IT'S ONLY ON BBC WALES

thomond2006

NH rugby is back! The Wales team will be announced today at 11am. It is rumoured to be very experimental.

I'd expect a similar experimental team for Ireland to decide on players to cut, I assume there will be cuts during August before the final squad is confirmed?

The match will be shown on BBC Wales.

aimee1

George north still has concussion issues apparently and wont play on saturday

.ak

Can't see it being too experimental from us... I reckon we'll see a first team with some changes and give some of the surgery guys a bit of a break.

Quint2010

Is this game not on Sky Sports?

Akrasia

.ak wrote: »

Can't see it being too experimental from us... I reckon we'll see a first team with some changes and give some of the surgery guys a bit of a break.

I think the focus will be on winning. Winning first, experimenting second.

The last thing Schmidt wants is a media backlash from poor results in the warm-ups before the WC

thomond2006

Maybe:

Bent, Cronin, Moore, Ryan, Toner, Murphy, Henry, Heaslip;
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, Jones

Strauss, Kilcoyne, Ross, Henderson, Murphy, Marmion, Madigan, McFadden

In bold you have what I think are definites as it stands for the final 31. I think Henshaw and Payne will start at least 3 games together to give the partnership more time.

Akrasia wrote: »

I think the focus will be on winning. Winning first, experimenting second.

The last thing Schmidt wants is a media backlash from poor results in the warm-ups before the WC

I don't know about that. In 2011 everybody forgot about 0-4 in August after Ireland beat Australia. The main focus has to be match sharpness, rotation to maintain squad morale and competition and of course no injuries!

GavMan

Quint2010 wrote: »

Is this game not on Sky Sports?

No BBC One Wales.

Anyone have the details on how to tune this on a Sky Box?

.ak

I think Cronin had surgery at the end of the season also? Might be too early for Trimble also. I reckon:

McGrath, Best, Moore, Hendo, Toner, POM, Henry, Heaslip;
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Henshaw, Payne, Bowe, Jones

Strauss, Kilcoyne, Ross, Ryan, Murphy, Reddan, Madigan, McFadden

BrokenMan

GavMan wrote: »

No BBC One Wales.

Anyone have the details on how to tune this on a Sky Box?

Full list of channel codes are here

http://ekayi.com/blog/sky-channel-codes-all-you-need/

vienne86

I thought BBC NI might do this one. Pain in the neck if you don't have a dish.

total former

Can a mod maybe update the thread title to clarify this is on BBC Wales only. It's just going to be asked again and again.

thomond2006

total former wrote: »

Can a mod maybe update the thread title to clarify this is on BBC Wales only. It's just going to be asked again and again.

Done

total former

Think Wales announce their team today, ours is out Thursday.

Gatland has already said he'll name a very experimental team, I'd say Joe will do likewise, would expect minimal presence of the first choice XV.

thomond2006

WALES TEAM TO PLAY IRELAND:
Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), * Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Scott Williams (Scarlets, CAPT), * Eli Walker (Ospreys), James Hook (Gloucester Rugby), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro);

Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), * Dominic Day (Bath Rugby), * Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys, Vice-CAPT), Dan Baker (Ospreys).

Replacements:
Rob Evans (Scarlets), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), James King (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons),
Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Matthew Morgan (Bristol Rugby)

*Denotes uncapped player

.ak

Wasn't lying about it being experimental then.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Wasn't lying about it being experimental then.

Yeah that's a very unusual selection and I think that team will struggle badly if we put out a close to first choice team.

Are Wales this year a little like us going into 2007? Strong first team but poor overall depth?

Who knows what Gatland is thinking - but possible reasons for such a watered down team (3 - 4 first teamer's max imo)

1. Keeping first team in camp an extra 1 - 2 weeks
2. Badly need a back up squad due to two high intensity pool deciding games
3. Selection headaches?
4. Team of expendables to maim everything in green...!

.ak

Or worried they'll get injuries going into the RWC.

vienne86

Well I certainly wouldn't have guessed at Hook being there. Very strange looking team all right, but as other posters have said, depth is probably an issue for Wales.

Redgirl82

Any idea when Ireland team announced?

connachta

Please Denis Buckley, pleaese...

Stheno

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Any idea when Ireland team announced?

Thursday someone said

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Any idea when Ireland team announced?

Expected on Thursday, I believe.

Interesting that Gatland is planning on cutting his squad after this match. Perhaps the experimental nature of this lineup is to facilitate that. Fringe players get a chance to stake their claim but I'd expect majority of cut names will feature this weekend.

I wonder if Schmidt will change his line up accordingly or stick with whatever he had planned?

Redgirl82

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Expected on Thursday, I believe.

Interesting that Gatland is planning on cutting his squad after this match. Perhaps the experimental nature of this lineup is to facilitate that. Fringe players get a chance to stake their claim but I'd expect majority of cut names will feature this weekend.

I wonder if Schmidt will change his line up accordingly or stick with whatever he had planned?

Based on previous experience I would say Schmidt has 90-95% of the squad already picked. It is the last 5% he might have undecided and will use this game to make the decision. So make or break for 2-3 players.

total former

connachta wrote: »

Please Denis Buckley, pleaese...

You're in for a disappointment I'm afraid.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Based on previous experience I would say Schmidt has 90-95% of the squad already picked. It is the last 5% he might have undecided and will use this game to make the decision. So make or break for 2-3 players.

I meant his line up for this match rather than his entire squad. But I suppose your point still stands. He'll probably stick with whatever lineup he was planning before Wales announced their lineup.

Regarding George North, I was reading this morning that he hasn't completed the back to play protocols yet. Can you train if you haven't done that? Or do full contact training? I know he's been on the training camps so presumably you can, or Wales have been ignoring protocol?

Fireball07

This is a full test, isn't it?


It's far from Wales' strongest team but there are still plenty of decent players there.

Quint2010

Would this be considered a third choice line up for Wales? The equivalent of a Irish development team?

Larbre34

Quint2010 wrote: »

Would this be considered a third choice line up for Wales? The equivalent of a Irish development team?

Bit of a Wales 'A' alright. In fairness, it could be an Irish development team they are facing. Joe now has the luxury of choosing the profile of the team to face them, either some experimental combinations and debutants or an early run out for the preferiti, give them the workout

connachta

total former wrote: »

You're in for a disappointment I'm afraid.

Would be a shame, I can't remember one single game when he was not 100% involved. Great scrummager, great forager. Healy is the only one ahead of him in Ireland, and for a good reason, he's probably in the top 3 props in the world

connachta

Larbre34 wrote: »

Bit of a Wales 'A' alright. In fairness, it could be an Irish development team they are facing. Joe now has the luxury of choosing the profile of the team to face them, either some experimental combinations and debutants or an early run out for the preferiti, give them the workout

So time to try and be convinced by Buckley!

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

WALES TEAM TO PLAY IRELAND:
Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), * Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Scott Williams (Scarlets, CAPT), * Eli Walker (Ospreys), James Hook (Gloucester Rugby), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro);

Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), * Dominic Day (Bath Rugby), * Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys, Vice-CAPT), Dan Baker (Ospreys).

Replacements:
Rob Evans (Scarlets), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), James King (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons),
Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Matthew Morgan (Bristol Rugby)

*Denotes uncapped player

I count possibly 9 players that would make a full strength welsh 23 team.
Ive included anscombe because i imagine hes been lined up for the long term 22 jersey .

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

I count possibly 9 players that would make a full strength welsh 23 team.
Ive included anscombe because i imagine hes been lined up for the long term 22 jersey .

Sorry, I hadn't looked at the bench and Cuthbert / Hibbard haven't been guaranteed first choice last season.

total former

connachta wrote: »

Would be a shame, I can't remember one single game when he was not 100% involved. Great scrummager, great forager. Healy is the only one ahead of him in Ireland, a for a good reason, he's probably in the top 3 props in the world

It seems that Joe favours bringing five props with Bent covering both sides. McGrath is a country mile out in front as backup to Healy and the coaches seem to like Kilcoyne, so playing Buckley would seem to be unlikely. He's probably already been cut tbh.

total former

sydthebeat wrote: »

Ive included anscombe because i imagine hes been lined up for the long term 22 jersey .

I'm really not seeing the appeal of Anscombe at all, I'd have Hook, Priestland or Morgan ahead of him for the 22 slot every day of the week.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry, I hadn't looked at the bench and Cuthbert / Hibbard haven't been guaranteed first choice last season.

oh i agree, but id still view them as first teamers, well cuthbert anyway, hibbards ship has sailed to a degree.

it wasnt any response to your post venjur, i was just doing that for my own curiosity... its a completely under strength selection with even the first teamers not being guaranteed starters.

Ball, Williams, Tipuric, Jarvis would all most likely be benchers and only Falateau is what youd call a first xv player.

for example there is NO player starting that started against ireland in the 6 nations.

sydthebeat

total former wrote: »

I'm really not seeing the appeal of Anscombe at all, I'd have Hook, Priestland or Morgan ahead of him for the 22 slot every day of the week.

Hook doesnt seem to be a gatland favourite, we all know what he can do but hes probably not consistent enough for gatty.

Preistland has given up any international ambition to sit on the bench for bath.

Morgan probably has to be doing special things at bristol to get a look in as Pratchell is a better 10 imo.

I agree that anscombe hasnt done anything of merit to really demand a spot, but the whole optics of his move to wales tell me hes a long term plan.

connachta

total former wrote: »

It seems that Joe favours bringing five props with Bent covering both sides. McGrath is a country mile out in front as backup to Healy and the coaches seem to like Kilcoyne, so playing Buckley would seem to be unlikely. He's probably already been cut tbh.

McGrath is ok but not miles ahead, "Killercoyne" and Bent ahead of Buckley is nothing more than a "brand effect" Munster+Leinster. Buckley is clearly better

irishbucsfan

We've often heard of Connacht players being clearly better than guys in the Irish squad ahead of them, I remember people said the same thing about Jamie Hagan and Fionn Carr. It's not always so clear cut as it appears to people in our position, I think the coaches must see something different when they get those guys into camp, because once they're in camp there is no such thing as the "brand" effect.

connachta

connachta wrote: »

McGrath is ok but not miles ahead, "Killercoyne" and Bent ahead of Buckley is nothing more than a "brand effect" Munster+Leinster. Buckley is clearly better

There was talk that Healy would have to work his way back into the squad. Healy is a more destructive scrummager and better ball carrier but McGrath gets through a huge amount of work around the field and Joe favours this kind of player also.

Kilcoyne is probably more a Healy type player than a McGrath type player but he hasn't had enough international continuity to stake a claim and has had a few bad days in red that seem to follow him around a bit. I think he's a great player however.

Buckley has great attributes and works hard but to my mind I've never seen performances that would make me put him at the level of either of the three ahead of him. He just doesn't seem to have an "international gear" though in fairness he's not had a lot of opportunity to prove otherwise.

Still, his pecking order to date at this stage has to be a fair account of the guy.

jamesbondings

BrokenMan wrote: »

Full list of channel codes are here

http://ekayi.com/blog/sky-channel-codes-all-you-need/

Is it a free to view channel? I have a dish and a box but no subscription..... Can i watch it dya think? I get Rte and the likes or so I'm told. Have the box in a drawer coz who needs Rte etc

junglyparty

I thought I'd recognise more of the Wales team. It looks really weak to me.

wp_rathead

Red Button on BBC NI should work too lads

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We've often heard of Connacht players being clearly better than guys in the Irish squad ahead of them, I remember people said the same thing about Jamie Hagan and Fionn Carr. It's not always so clear cut as it appears to people in our position, I think the coaches must see something different when they get those guys into camp, because once they're in camp there is no such thing as the "brand" effect.

No comparison possible. Carr and Hagan were prospects with liabilities. If Leinster gets them, they had hope they could overtake their weaknesses, but they didn't and they still don't. Buckley hasn't those blatant weaknesses, he's a complete player.

And of course the origin of players still count in the camp, Connacht isn't a sure provider yet for the coaches. It will continue like that until Connacht play the biggest european cup, frequent high-level games, Joe said smth like this in the past.. It's harsh for great players like Buckley.

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

No comparison possible. Carr and Hagan were prospects with liabilities. If Leinster gets them, they had hope they could overtake their weaknesses, but they don't. Buckley hasn't those blatant weaknesses, he's a complete player. And of course the origin of players still count in the camp, Connacht isn't a sure provider yet for the coaches. It will continue like that until Connacht play the biggest european cup, frequent high-level games, Joe said smth like this in the past..

Nope, I'm talking about Connacht fans (as well as fans from all over the country including myself) calling for Carr and Hagan to be involved with Ireland, nothing about them moving to Leinster.

Back in the darkest depths of the Tony Buckley era the calls for Hagan's inclusion were particularly loud, and it was based on consistent performances for Connacht, noone was talking about any weaknesses at the time.

total former

connachta wrote: »

McGrath is ok but not miles ahead, "Killercoyne" and Bent ahead of Buckley is nothing more than a "brand effect" Munster+Leinster. Buckley is clearly better

McGrath had a great Six Nations. He's the undisputed second choice, by some distance.

Buckley might be a better loosehead than Bent but not a better dual prop and and that's why Bent is ahead.

So we're back to Kilcoyne. I wouldn't feel strongly either way but the coaches clearly rate Kilcoyne as the better prop.

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nope, I'm talking about Connacht fans (as well as fans from all over the country including myself) calling for Carr and Hagan to be involved with Ireland, nothing about them moving to Leinster.

My point was : Connacht fans weren't the only ones to misjudge. Leinster management did the same, so it's too easy to undermine the calls for any Connacht lad because of this

connachta

total former wrote: »

McGrath had a great Six Nations. He's the undisputed second choice, by some distance.

Buckley might be a better loosehead than Bent but not a better dual prop and and that's why Bent is ahead.

So we're back to Kilcoyne. I wouldn't feel strongly either way but the coaches clearly rate Kilcoyne as the better prop.

That's a pondarate and acceptable stance:p

Synode

For those on UPC, Filmon have BBC Wales

http://www.filmon.com/tv/live

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

My point was : Connacht fans weren't the only ones to misjudge. Leinster management did the same, so it's too easy to undermine the calls for any Connacht lad because of this

Leinster signing a player does not mean their management think that player is good enough to play internationally, so no it's not really Leinster management doing the same as fans at all (and it's not just Connacht fans of course, I was bemused by Hagan being overlooked back in those days as well).

If a Connacht player was good enough he would be starting. Look at how quick Henshaw rose to the international side. There is no brand effect in the camp, I simply don't believe that's remotely true.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I've watched Pro 12 online as BBC Wales often streams the matches so it may be possible to watch it that way, if anyone's desperate. Commentary is usually in Welsh though.

connachta

connachta wrote: »

My point was : Connacht fans weren't the only ones to misjudge. Leinster management did the same, so it's too easy to undermine the calls for any Connacht lad because of this

Both Hagan and Carr as far as my memory serves were coming in to the squad but certainly weren't coming in as first team players. I don't think Leinster management misjudged either, they came in to fill gaps in the squad which they did.