Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

mahoney_j

Injuryprone wrote: »

With all due respect, you and your 3 sources couldn't be more wrong. Let's say you put in your application next week to reduce by 100,000l. If it's undersubscribed, everyone gets what they want, you're allocated €14,000 and there's some left over for further schemes. If it's oversubscribed, eu and dafm will publish a coefficient the following week. If the coefficient is 90% as in the example, then you're allocated €12,600 but you can produce an extra 10,000l.

But that's your allocation. So long a you fulfill the supply reduction and fill out the claim form to prove it next Jan, then you're guaranteed your allocation. Don't know where you got this story of "reduce now, wait til the new year to find out how much of the reduction you'll be paid for". I mean how could any businessman take such a gamble with their livelihood?

Look that's what was explained to me ,makes sense .pYement won't be made till next year and volume reduction won't be known for 3 months till janurary you cut supply for the 3 months but if scheme oversubscribed you won't get the 14 cent on your full allocation .if scheme undersubscribed no guarntee that money will go to further schemes ,there may not be need as I reckon milk will be al least 30 before end of spring ,maby higher .if oversubscribed you get less and could of produced more but then it's too late .theres also the cash flow argument ,money for scheme won't be recorded till at least March April ,if cash already tight that means carrying debt and stretched overdrafts over.cows and stock also still have to be fed ,there's a risk of cows getting over fat etc (going off topic I know )
Every farmer needs to examine the merits etc of this scheme for themselves ,could really see this as a runner for winter milk herds but can't see much for typical spring herd who has already most of fixed and variable costs absorbed .milk can be produced very cheaply ff on now to dry off ,full cheque every month ,bills paid and more bargaing power

orm0nd

mahoney_j wrote: »

There is a. Winter bonus in place (12c over base) and 2 c bonus for Dec Jan Feb if u supply 18% (I think)of peak minth supply .that tesco contract we got is sizeable and they want milk ,end of .i know of guys that got 50 k ltr liquid contract for comming winter .look pretty bad if we couldn't fill that and other contracts for next 6 months .bluffing or not they want milk and they will have to pay for it .last thing they want is supply falling off a cliff from October

last year was very good back end, yields falling quickly here so will wait until next week to predict yields & to drop in form, have some culls which will be going OAD from Oct1. and fed low P, HE and going straight to slaughter in Jan.

will deffo be under next spring as we're concertrating more on the sheep until milk price comes good again , so going to put in 2 applications & try to max payment without any drastic changes to the system

if a few bob comes our way well & good, if not well nothing ventured etc, ..

Injuryprone

mahoney_j wrote: »

Look that's what was explained to me ,makes sense .pYement won't be made till next year and volume reduction won't be known for 3 months till janurary you cut supply for the 3 months but if scheme oversubscribed you won't get the 14 cent on your full allocation .if scheme undersubscribed no guarntee that money will go to further schemes ,there may not be need as I reckon milk will be al least 30 before end of spring ,maby higher .if oversubscribed you get less and could of produced more but then it's too late .theres also the cash flow argument ,money for scheme won't be recorded till at least March April ,if cash already tight that means carrying debt and stretched overdrafts over.cows and stock also still have to be fed ,there's a risk of cows getting over fat etc (going off topic I know )
Every farmer needs to examine the merits etc of this scheme for themselves ,could really see this as a runner for winter milk herds but can't see much for typical spring herd who has already most of fixed and variable costs absorbed .milk can be produced very cheaply ff on now to dry off ,full cheque every month ,bills paid and more bargaing power

Look I've tried my best to explain it to you, I don't think it's too complicated. I suggest that before you go on advising people what to do that you read the booklet that came out with the form a few times. I posted the front page of it. It gives a good explanation of the scheme. I see aidan Brennan also posted a bit of it on Twitter also to correct another one of your misunderstandings so it must be available online somewhere.

A final few points:
1. Farmers need to sit down, assess their full costs for producing milk in Nov & dec and hence an approx margin. See then if it's much more than 14c to make it worth your while getting up in the morning. Also don't forget the effect on cow body condition.
2. Every farmer that sends in an application next week will know before the end of the month exactly how much they've got into the scheme, be it 100%, 90%, 80% etc of their proposed reduction. They can then adjust their supply for the 3 months accordingly.
3. Anyone that applies for the scheme and doesn't end up claiming their allowance is in effect taking money out of farmers pockets, assuming the demand for the scheme is out there. Farmers should make sure to claim their full proposal to make sure the full €150m ends up in our pockets.

mf240

How about just drying off early and drawing the 14 cent as a thank you to the co ops for treating us so fairly all year.

kevthegaff

I signed up for 10k per month from Oct to dec. I milked on till Christmas last year and was planning to dry up early dec so my allocation will be filled for 1 month, going to dry off some heifers and keep meal low. Is it true if you go say 8100 litres under u get paid same amount?

kevthegaff

Heard Boi pulled out of loan scheme in Arrabawn, aib still in. Any word??

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

I've put in for max ,I've zero intention of reducing supply though .every dairy farmer in every coop should apply and imo for max ammount.give our coops a shock and keeps pressure on for them to pass back on market bounce for product which ic currently on the up .

Oh, aren't you constantly boasting about how well your coop is performing

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

There is a. Winter bonus in place (12c over base) and 2 c bonus for Dec Jan Feb if u supply 18% (I think)of peak minth supply .that tesco contract we got is sizeable and they want milk ,end of .i know of guys that got 50 k ltr liquid contract for comming winter .look pretty bad if we couldn't fill that and other contracts for next 6 months .bluffing or not they want milk and they will have to pay for it .last thing they want is supply falling off a cliff from October

MJ, you and I both know there's not a snowballs chance of that Tesco contract being fllled with what's contracted to suppliers.

They're relying on slow learners to supply non bonused milk along with buying in milk from, well you tell me?

whelan2

kevthegaff wrote: »

Heard Boi pulled out of loan scheme in Arrabawn, aib still in. Any word??

They pulled out of the glanbia one too, but you can make your own arrangements with them

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Oh, aren't you constantly boasting about how well your coop is performing

And I'm constantly reading lads totally pissed with Glanbia and reading pr disasters .!!!!!

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

MJ, you and I both know there's not a snowballs chance of that Tesco contract being fllled with what's contracted to suppliers.

They're relying on slow learners to supply non bonused milk along with buying in milk from, well you tell me?

They will fill it cause they'll get enough suckers to milk on without paying them the liquid bonus,and sure we're buying in milk from other non efficent coops cause we've spare capacity and the fact we're just a nice bunch !!!

orm0nd

kevthegaff wrote: »

I signed up for 10k per month from Oct to dec. I milked on till Christmas last year and was planning to dry up early dec so my allocation will be filled for 1 month, going to dry off some heifers and keep meal low. Is it true if you go say 8100 litres under u get paid same amount?

Kev I posted this link in the other thread
http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/15-questions-answered-on-the-new-eu-milk-reduction-scheme/

Injuryprone

kevthegaff wrote: »

I signed up for 10k per month from Oct to dec. I milked on till Christmas last year and was planning to dry up early dec so my allocation will be filled for 1 month, going to dry off some heifers and keep meal low. Is it true if you go say 8100 litres under u get paid same amount?

Yeah you'll get 8100 x 14c x 3. Also it's over the full 3 months that counts, not per month iykwim. If say you supplied 70k last Oct-dec and you applied to reduce by 30k, You could milk flat out through Oct until you've 40k supplied and then dry off completely.

orm0nd

orm0nd wrote: »

Kev I posted this link in the other thread
http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/15-questions-answered-on-the-new-eu-milk-reduction-scheme/

edit just to add aidan brennan's exp.

Buford T. Justice XIX

mf240 wrote: »

How about just drying off early and drawing the 14 cent as a thank you to the co ops for treating us so fairly all year.

Why would you cost yourself money?

As someone posted earlier, most of the costs for the year are incurred already so, bar meal costs, parlour costs and time, the rest of the milk price is mostly profit.

The question we should be asking is whether the margin we will make is bigger than 14c/l and we dry off the minimum as normal or the margin is less than 14c/l and we dry off the maximum.

mahoney_j

Injuryprone wrote: »

Look I've tried my best to explain it to you, I don't think it's too complicated. I suggest that before you go on advising people what to do that you read the booklet that came out with the form a few times. I posted the front page of it. It gives a good explanation of the scheme. I see aidan Brennan also posted a bit of it on Twitter also to correct another one of your misunderstandings so it must be available online somewhere.

A final few points:
1. Farmers need to sit down, assess their full costs for producing milk in Nov & dec and hence an approx margin. See then if it's much more than 14c to make it worth your while getting up in the morning. Also don't forget the effect on cow body condition.
2. Every farmer that sends in an application next week will know before the end of the month exactly how much they've got into the scheme, be it 100%, 90%, 80% etc of their proposed reduction. They can then adjust their supply for the 3 months accordingly.
3. Anyone that applies for the scheme and doesn't end up claiming their allowance is in effect taking money out of farmers pockets, assuming the demand for the scheme is out there. Farmers should make sure to claim their full proposal to make sure the full €150m ends up in our pockets.

Misunderstanding ,I questioned an article that stated if you under supplied what u entered in scheme you'd be penalised ,u won't you will get paid full coop price plus solids ,u just won't qualify for supply reduction scheme .simple as that
On your point ,farmers may know how much milk they will qualify to be paid on within a few weeks ,they may well do but no money will be advanced till next year when the full supply reduction will be known .i don't accept your point that anyone applying and not reducing supply is robbing those that do cut .i milk my cows to make money from there milk not be relying on a scheme (quota)to produce less I bet the kiwis et all are looking at this with a big grin hoping we do cut supply so they can plough on again at our expense

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

Heard Boi pulled out of loan scheme in Arrabawn, aib still in. Any word??

Correct ,in limbo arm

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

They will fill it cause they'll get enough suckers to milk on without paying them the liquid bonus,and sure we're buying in milk from other non efficent coops cause we've spare capacity and the fact we're just a nice bunch !!!

Are those "coops" you WILL be buying liquid milk from in Dec and January in the Republic?

Spot price in 30p ATM, this could get costly yet.

Keepgrowing

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Why would you cost yourself money?

As someone posted earlier, most of the costs for the year are incurred already so, bar meal costs, parlour costs and time, the rest of the milk price is mostly profit.

The question we should be asking is whether the margin we will make is bigger than 14c/l and we dry off the minimum as normal or the margin is less than 14c/l and we dry off the maximum.

That's the only question. That's the only criteria for that decision

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

Misunderstanding ,I questioned an article that stated if you under supplied what u entered in scheme you'd be penalised ,u won't you will get paid full coop price plus solids ,u just won't qualify for supply reduction scheme .simple as that
On your point ,farmers may know how much milk they will qualify to be paid on within a few weeks ,they may well do but no money will be advanced till next year when the full supply reduction will be known .i don't accept your point that anyone applying and not reducing supply is robbing those that do cut .i milk my cows to make money from there milk not be relying on a scheme (quota)to produce less I bet the kiwis et all are looking at this with a big grin hoping we do cut supply so they can plough on again at our expense

I really wouldn't be to worried about the new Zealand lads, the last 2 years have sucked the life out of them, and lead to massive debts been racked up, on-tip of already unsustainable loans....
America on the otherhand is a different story the scale out their and their ability to up numbers at the drop of a hat by thousands of cows is mind - boggling, the article in this week's independent about the Irish guy out dairying their would really make you stand back and think, if grain/maize stays on the floor and doesn't lift, any milk price increases will be short lived as American dairy farmers will open the taps

orm0nd

mahoney_j wrote: »

Misunderstanding ,I questioned an article that stated if you under supplied what u entered in scheme you'd be penalised ,u won't you will get paid full coop price plus solids ,u just won't qualify for supply reduction scheme .simple as that
On your point ,farmers may know how much milk they will qualify to be paid on within a few weeks ,they may well do but no money will be advanced till next year when the full supply reduction will be known .i don't accept your point that anyone applying and not reducing supply is robbing those that do cut .i milk my cows to make money from there milk not be relying on a scheme (quota)to produce less I bet the kiwis et all are looking at this with a big grin hoping we do cut supply so they can plough on again at our expense

I think a lot of you MJ but for the life of me I can't for the life of me see why you (or anybody else) that have no intention of applying are sending in forms claiming full .

Claiming to jock the coops doesn't cut sh1t with me. In fact I think your actions are downright stupid.

( & B4 I get another ban I'm reffering to his actions not the poster)

Injuryprone

mahoney_j wrote: »

Misunderstanding ,I questioned an article that stated if you under supplied what u entered in scheme you'd be penalised ,u won't you will get paid full coop price plus solids ,u just won't qualify for supply reduction scheme .simple as that
On your point ,farmers may know how much milk they will qualify to be paid on within a few weeks ,they may well do but no money will be advanced till next year when the full supply reduction will be known .i don't accept your point that anyone applying and not reducing supply is robbing those that do cut .i milk my cows to make money from there milk not be relying on a scheme (quota)to produce less I bet the kiwis et all are looking at this with a big grin hoping we do cut supply so they can plough on again at our expense

Well of course no money will be paid out until you've actually reduced your supply and proved you've done so.

If, next week, enough farmers across Europe apply to reduce supply by 1.07m tonnes, then that's it, scheme's closed. All money is allocated. If it turns out that half those farmers didn't in fact intend to reduce supply and don't follow up with a claim and only €75m is claimed in Jan, then farmers like yourself would've cost others the other €75m.

If you apply to reduce by 100,000l and are allocated the full amount. If then you only reduce your supply by 40,000l and claim accordingly, you will only be paid out on 20,000l (€2,800), when you should've been due €5600. Hence you will have been penalised €2,800 for not reducing what you said you were going to reduce. Of course you will still have been paid by the co-op for the 60,000l that you didn't reduce but that is, as they say, beside the point. It doesn't change the fact that you've been penalised €2800 for not fulfilling your prediction.

mahoney_j

orm0nd wrote: »

I think a lot of you MJ but for the life of me I can't for the life of me see why you (or anybody else) that have no intention of applying are sending in forms claiming full .

Claiming to jock the coops doesn't cut sh1t with me. In fact I think your actions are downright stupid.

( & B4 I get another ban I'm reffering to his actions not the poster)

No offence taken ,don't think my actions are stupid though .anyone that wants in fire away ,I'm milking on as normal and want full value for my milk ,work and time for rest of year .im just wary of schemes like this ,we've had quotas long enough. Been restricted long enough and that's the way I see this .supply and demand is well on the road to recovery ,schemes like this aren't causing the recovery it's simply the market rebalancing itself naturally and it should of been left alone .all it's doing is giving hi cost In efficent producers a little longer on life support .yes there's exceptions and it will suit some ,not me .wuestion for ye ,without this scheme or as dwag would call it a ski hokiday fund would we of seen price rises this early ???.
As for injury prones comment re been penalised ,totally reject it .im been paid full price for my time and milk as per normal ,clearing bills ,and cash at hand as I need it rather than kicking back waiting till next spring /summer for a handout !then again maby I'm plain thick !!!!!my solids are rising ,price going up abundance of grass and feed ,costs are already mostly absorbed through year .im driving on

kevthegaff

Moving cows is like watching paint dry today

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

No offence taken ,don't think my actions are stupid though .anyone that wants in fire away ,I'm milking on as normal and want full value for my milk ,work and time for rest of year .im just wary of schemes like this ,we've had quotas long enough. Been restricted long enough and that's the way I see this .supply and demand is well on the road to recovery ,schemes like this aren't causing the recovery it's simply the market rebalancing itself naturally and it should of been left alone .all it's doing is giving hi cost In efficent producers a little longer on life support .yes there's exceptions and it will suit some ,not me .wuestion for ye ,without this scheme or as dwag would call it a ski hokiday fund would we of seen price rises this early ???.
As for injury prones comment re been penalised ,totally reject it .im been paid full price for my time and milk as per normal ,clearing bills ,and cash at hand as I need it rather than kicking back waiting till next spring /summer for a handout !then again maby I'm plain thick !!!!!my solids are rising ,price going up abundance of grass and feed ,costs are already mostly absorbed through year .im driving on

So your driving on yet applying?????

Waste of a good stamp

jack o shea

Any news of a price lift in milk for August?

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

So your driving on yet applying?????

Waste of a good stamp

Dropped in personally !!

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

Dropped in personally !!

#recreationaluseofdiesel :pac:

trixi2011

Spot milk price hitting 38p a litre in the UK today . If many people avail of the reduction scheme prices are are really going to spike

freedominacup

Keepgrowing wrote: »

So your driving on yet applying?????

Waste of a good stamp

I'm going to waste one as well, just for the pure blackguarding.