Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

kowtow

Keepgrowing wrote:

This is designed for Northern Europe where the cost of feed is crippling them. I was on an 800 cow farm in the UK this week who can't stop pumping litres despite the fact that he's losing £20k cash per month. He can't stop because of debt. In fact he needs to drop 250 cows out of his system and take this money.

Is it the debt that's killing him or the cost of feed?

Keepgrowing

kowtow wrote: »

Is it the debt that's killing him or the cost of feed?

It's price of milk and cost of feed but he has to try and ride it out to make payments on the massive capital invested. He's like a hamster in a wheel.

freedominacup

Keepgrowing wrote: »

It's price of milk and cost of feed but he has to try and ride it out to make payments on the massive capital invested. He's like a hamster in a wheel.

There's plenty of us here too. Quota costs are still the big pain in the hole. We'd be going a lot handier this year without them. I don't see applying for that scheme as a waste of time. They won't know until Nov what lads are actually doing and I don't think they can.chance being without the milk.

mahoney_j

freedominacup wrote: »

There's plenty of us here too. Quota costs are still the big pain in the hole. We'd be going a lot handier this year without them. I don't see applying for that scheme as a waste of time. They won't know until Nov what lads are actually doing and I don't think they can.chance being without the milk.

+1

whelan2

freedominacup wrote: »

There's plenty of us here too. Quota costs are still the big pain in the hole. We'd be going a lot handier this year without them. I don't see applying for that scheme as a waste of time. They won't know until Nov what lads are actually doing and I don't think they can.chance being without the milk.

So why dont they come out and say they will be paying a minimum of x for the months involved so lads can do their sums?

Buford T. Justice XIX

whelan2 wrote: »

So why dont they come out and say they will be paying a minimum of x for the months involved so lads can do their sums?

If we are to believe the executives, they are selling it all on the spot market when the price is falling and have it all on forward contracts when the price is rising:rolleyes:

Keepgrowing

whelan2 wrote: »

So why dont they come out and say they will be paying a minimum of x for the months involved so lads can do their sums?

The sum is simple you're either under or over 14c with feed costs for a milking cow. The dry cow will still have to be fed.

Reason for no more information is because it's a politicians solution. They should stick to what they do best, getting re elected

kowtow

Keepgrowing wrote:

It's price of milk and cost of feed but he has to try and ride it out to make payments on the massive capital invested. He's like a hamster in a wheel.

So presumably he is generating a margin... his problem is that he is undercaptalised.

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

If we are to believe the executives, they are selling it all on the spot market when the price is falling and have it all on forward contracts when the price is rising

That is always the way.

Hedging is best left to the producer so he can match his own risk. If the processor is badly hedged (per your example) the producer now has to cover coops speculation losses as well as his own.

Hence my constant concern at the detail of fixed price arrangements.

The predictive text on my phone just translated processor as "prices sorry", bugger me it really is clever!

kevthegaff

kowtow wrote:

Hence my constant concern at the detail of fixed price arrangements.

kowtow wrote:

Hedging is best left to the producer so he can match his own risk. If the processor is badly hedged (per your example) the producer now has to cover coops speculation losses as well as his own.

On the money as usual kowtow, by the time it trickles down to the supplier another downturn will begin. Bloody super levy fine I agree free.

Injuryprone

Dawggone wrote: »

The crap that some posters got for saying that they were going to apply for the maximum amount of litres of a scheme that is nothing short of bloody favouritism....at the end of the day it's only 14cpl.
At 24cpl I'm not interested.
Speaks volumes....

I presume that's aimed at me. You along with other posters on here only seem able to half read things.

Posters were not criticised for applying for the maximum (I've applied for the max myself). Posters were criticised for applying for the max while at the same time saying they've no intention of claiming whatever is granted to them. Whatever money is allocated to those posters next week that goes unclaimed will go back into the eu coffers. That's not in the best interest of farmers Imo. Posters were also encouraging others to follow in their footsteps.

These farmers are effectively saying "that's my money and even though I don't want to claim it, no one else is having it either". Definition of selfishness. Every euro that goes unclaimed is great news for the bureaucrats and in turn the processors.

It is not for you or any other poster on here to be telling anyone else whether they should or shouldn't be applying for this scheme. Everyone should be making up their own mind for themselves. But what farmers should be making sure of is that they claim their full allocation so that the full €150m gets drawn down into farmers pockets.

P.s. Having said all that, I've actually done the same in the tams scheme as what these posters are doing now. Part of the tams pot has been granted to me but due to onerous conditions that were attached to the grant approval, I won't be drawing down the grant. That 30k will go unclaimed and end up God knows where. These conditions were not flagged up prior to my application.

Mooooo

kevthegaff wrote: »

kowtow wrote:

Hence my constant concern at the detail of fixed price arrangements.

kowtow wrote:

Hedging is best left to the producer so he can match his own risk. If the processor is badly hedged (per your example) the producer now has to cover coops speculation losses as well as his own.

On the money as usual kowtow, by the time it trickles down to the supplier another downturn will begin. Bloody super levy fine I agree free.

Those of ye paying the fine arent the only ones paying kev, plenty still paying off debt associated with quota purchase

Buford T. Justice XIX

Injuryprone wrote: »

I presume that's aimed at me. You along with other posters on here only seem able to half read things.

Posters were not criticised for applying for the maximum (I've applied for the max myself). Posters were criticised for applying for the max while at the same time saying they've no intention of claiming whatever is granted to them. Whatever money is allocated to those posters next week that goes unclaimed will go back into the eu coffers. That's not in the best interest of farmers Imo. Posters were also encouraging others to follow in their footsteps.

These farmers are effectively saying "that's my money and even though I don't want to claim it, no one else is having it either". Definition of selfishness. Every euro that goes unclaimed is great news for the bureaucrats and in turn the processors.

It is not for you or any other poster on here to be telling anyone else whether they should or shouldn't be applying for this scheme. Everyone should be making up their own mind for themselves. But what farmers should be making sure of is that they claim their full allocation so that the full €150m gets drawn down into farmers pockets.

P.s. Having said all that, I've actually done the same in the tams scheme as what these posters are doing now. Part of the tams pot has been granted to me but due to onerous conditions that were attached to the grant approval, I won't be drawing down the grant. That 30k will go unclaimed and end up God knows where. These conditions were not flagged up prior to my application.

You can write in and withdraw from the scheme and that will free up the funds for other applicants in the next few windows.

mahoney_j

Injuryprone wrote: »

I presume that's aimed at me. You along with other posters on here only seem able to half read things.

Posters were not criticised for applying for the maximum (I've applied for the max myself). Posters were criticised for applying for the max while at the same time saying they've no intention of claiming whatever is granted to them. Whatever money is allocated to those posters next week that goes unclaimed will go back into the eu coffers. That's not in the best interest of farmers Imo. Posters were also encouraging others to follow in their footsteps.

These farmers are effectively saying "that's my money and even though I don't want to claim it, no one else is having it either". Definition of selfishness. Every euro that goes unclaimed is great news for the bureaucrats and in turn the processors.

It is not for you or any other poster on here to be telling anyone else whether they should or shouldn't be applying for this scheme. Everyone should be making up their own mind for themselves. But what farmers should be making sure of is that they claim their full allocation so that the full €150m gets drawn down into farmers pockets.

P.s. Having said all that, I've actually done the same in the tams scheme as what these posters are doing now. Part of the tams pot has been granted to me but due to onerous conditions that were attached to the grant approval, I won't be drawing down the grant. That 30k will go unclaimed and end up God knows where. These conditions were not flagged up prior to my application.

So you effectively want a hand out to take it easy at the expense of the lad that stays milking ......!!!!!.also as previously stated and confirmed to me elsewhere applications are for now just that ,ammount of reduction won't be known till Jan and then ammount of aid per applicant will be decided ,yes u will know in a few weeks poteintaly what ltrs you'll be paid on but actual ammount will be different once scheme ends on 31/12

Injuryprone

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

You can write in and withdraw from the scheme and that will free up the funds for other applicants in the next few windows.

Thanks. Didn't know that. Will do next week.

mahoney_j

Mooooo wrote: »

Those of ye paying the fine arent the only ones paying kev, plenty still paying off debt associated with quota purchase

Agree ,and without been smug I've little sympathy for anyone paying levy ,they rolled the dice and knew the risk .i bought over 140 k ltrs quota in 4 years prior to quota abolition and just about swuezed out with no levy

kowtow

Whatever you lot decide to do I'm going to buy some capacity on Nigerian / Irish broadband inter-connectors.

That fella in Lagos is going to be burning some diesel.

Injuryprone

mahoney_j wrote: »

So you effectively want a hand out to take it easy at the expense of the lad that stays milking ......!!!!!.

Farmers that stay milking are funding the scheme now?

#thanksformakingmypointforme

OverRide

Oh god,the eldest lad,he's 22 was in the parlour with me milking this morning and Olivia Newton John came on the radio
'I remember dancin to that with your Ma I said'
Over 30 year ago in a dancehall up in Courtown opposite the beach and amusements
Time flies

kevthegaff

Mooooo wrote:

Those of ye paying the fine arent the only ones paying kev, plenty still paying off debt associated with quota purchase

I forgot about that loan too dammm

Keepgrowing

OverRide wrote: »

Oh god,the eldest lad,he's 22 was in the parlour with me milking this morning and Olivia Newton John came on the radio
'I remember dancin to that with your Ma I said'
Over 30 year ago in a dancehall up in Courtown opposite the beach and amusements
Time flies

Lol

Injuryprone

mahoney_j wrote: »

also as previously stated and confirmed to me elsewhere applications are for now just that ,ammount of reduction won't be known till Jan and then ammount of aid per applicant will be decided ,yes u will know in a few weeks poteintaly what ltrs you'll be paid on but actual ammount will be different once scheme ends on 31/12

I've read every bit of literature on the scheme that I could find (I don't listen to other people's interpretations) and I've not read anywhere where it says that the grant amount will be adjusted in Jan based on what the actual reduction is. If you could provide a link to support your claim, it would be greatly appreciated.

kevthegaff

mahoney_j wrote:

So you effectively want a hand out to take it easy at the expense of the lad that stays milking ......!!!!!.also as previously stated and confirmed to me elsewhere applications are for now just that ,ammount of reduction won't be known till Jan and then ammount of aid per applicant will be decided ,yes u will know in a few weeks poteintaly what ltrs you'll be paid on but actual ammount will be different once scheme ends on 31/12

But the more uptake of the scheme pressures buyers and processors to give a "little" more, win win for schemers or non schemers

mahoney_j

Injuryprone wrote: »

I've read every bit of literature on the scheme that I could find (I don't listen to other people's interpretations) and I've not read anywhere where it says that the grant amount will be adjusted in Jan based on what the actual reduction is. If you could provide a link to support your claim, it would be greatly appreciated.

Read likewise ,confirmed to me by someone much higher up command chain

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

But the more uptake of the scheme pressures buyers and processors to give a "little" more, win win for schemers or non schemers

That's my point re applying ,it keeps /puts more pressure on to keep price rises comming .coops are in limbo re back end supply atm .they need milk and if they see a heavily subscribed scheme they'll go the extra mile to secure supply ,

mahoney_j

Injuryprone wrote: »

Farmers that stay milking are funding the scheme now?

#thanksformakingmypointforme

Every little helps to prove u right your majesty !!!'

Buford T. Justice XIX

It's different in Kerry:rolleyes:

I just went for a few bags of ration and asked for the form to have a look at filling it in. Apparently, we have to wait for the area manager to fill out the form with us.

I suppose in case we might apply for too much:D

There is some sort of leeway there too for overfilling/underfilling your 'quota' to the end of the year, something about 20% up or down if I picked it up right.

freedominacup

mahoney_j wrote: »

Read likewise ,confirmed to me by someone much higher up command chain

Well he's a fair genius mj. The literature is ambiguous at best. You have to apply twice. Once to join the scheme and a second time for payment. Yourself and injuryprone would really want to get down off yerselves. Neither of you have provided a link to anything that confirms your posts.

Dawggone

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Caked in shyte.... Fighting for scraps.... Open for business
Wtf are you on about.
You have no idea how professional most farmers are here.

The discussion was not about the scheme but about applying with no intention of reducing volume just to give the co op a fright.......now that's plain waste of time.

Your neighbours are getting 28c I believe to do phuck all yet they'll be tipping dung an roundabouts the first frosty morning or if the bakery opens late for them.

Irish dairy farmers took whinging to a new level this year but are only in the junior league compared to the French ones. Hosted 2 French groups last year and again this year and they could make cribbing an Olympic sport, rot my whole listening to them but I collected my €400 and shut my ears.

This scheme suits someone easing back or a winter guy changing to spring production or a very inefficient supplier who will not make the 14c over variable costs. Fixed costs won't change.

This is designed for Northern Europe where the cost of feed is crippling them. I was on an 800 cow farm in the UK this week who can't stop pumping litres despite the fact that he's losing £20k cash per month. He can't stop because of debt. In fact he needs to drop 250 cows out of his system and take this money.

Irish dairy farming will be fine so long as we realise that it's about removing as much of the valuable proteins, cheese and bagging the rest to get it out of here as soon as possible. This notion of tiny outfits adding value to every component of every litre and selling it locally cannot work as we only have 4m mouths here and are already over 50% on the way to harvest 2020 targets

Firstly, I totally agree about the ability of dairy farmers to moan, and yes the French dairy farmers would have to be world champions at it.

Secondly, I just can't agree on the line about there being only 4 million people to consume the Irish dairy product.
Local can become global quite easily, especially when you have the provenance that the Irish family farm has. Think Irish whiskey...started local, now global.
I don't think that the consumer is demanding more milk powder, or maybe I'm wrong?

The consumer is now turning into the prosumer...the prosumer will want to watch live feed of the cows in the sheds/fields/ milking parlor at any time they want. The dairy industry that latches onto the eco/soil/animal friendly brand will steal a march on the competition.

I know that ye think I'm crazy, but I'll bet that the industry that opens its doors via live feed 24/7, will open the purse of the end user.
This idea is already being floated by processors here. My crowd make baby formula for the Chinese market and they are actively looking for farmers to participate...

Mahoney's right. Fighting over scraps every time of a little crisis is not a good plan going forward.

Big market out there. Aim for the top end consumer....or just moan.

mf240