Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

Like most figures, the design of the formula tells you more than the result.

I agree on kg ms sold - although I suspect that we should relate it to labour units more often if we don't want to end up working for free forever, and to capital employed (including land) if we don't want to lose the run of ourselves.

There are lots of ways to read a balance sheet, each of which answers a different question - if you know what you are looking at - one of the challenges of farming is that sometimes these things are oversimplified ... sometimes for admirable reasons (better the simplest profit monitor than no plan at all) but also to suit the purposes of those around us... feed merchants being a good example.

I think the trick is not to have too many kpi's. They should be key. There a plenty of benchmarks. Land cost is very high on my agenda so everything is eventually refered back to the acre. I use those kpi's because the output one is the most accurate assessment of your output. The others can be manipulated. Kgms sold, that's what you get paid for. CI tells you whether the cow you have is suited to your system and whether she's being looked after properly.

Lots of things feed into these indicators and there's a huge amount of interaction between the vaious elements. If they're wrong you're loosing output. If they're right the next step is to ensure you're not overspending to have them right.

Land and labour have to be charged for. Labour at the average ind wage rate minimum. Land at the oppurtunity rental cost minimum. If you're still turning a profit at that then happy days. I wish I could charge my land in at rental costs. Id be away in a hack id I could.

Greengrass1

freedominacup wrote: »

I think the trick is not to have too many kpi's. They should be key. There a plenty of benchmarks. Land cost is very high on my agenda so everything is eventually refered back to the acre. I use those kpi's because the output one is the most accurate assessment of your output. The others can be manipulated. Kgms sold, that's what you get paid for. CI tells you whether the cow you have is suited to your system and whether she's being looked after properly.

Lots of things feed into these indicators and there's a huge amount of interaction between the vaious elements. If they're wrong you're loosing output. If they're right the next step is to ensure you're not overspending to have them right.

Land and labour have to be charged for. Labour at the average ind wage rate minimum. Land at the oppurtunity rental cost minimum. If you're still turning a profit at that then happy days. I wish I could charge my land in at rental costs. Id be away in a hack id I could.

So what your effectively talking about is you as land owner charging the business a rent for use of the land and then that's yours as well as your wage from the business?
Ye have been on about this for months here and tbh I never passed much attention on it

freedominacup

Greengrass1 wrote: »

So what your effectively talking about is you as land owner charging the business a rent for use of the land and then that's yours as well as your wage from the business?
Ye have been on about this for months here and tbh I never passed much attention on it

No I'm effectively talking about how much my land is costing me. Not a notional figure. Cash cost which you know all about gg in fairness. Your place didn't blink into existence one day because you decided to go farming did it?

rangler1

freedominacup wrote: »

I think the trick is not to have too many kpi's. They should be key. There a plenty of benchmarks. Land cost is very high on my agenda so everything is eventually refered back to the acre. I use those kpi's because the output one is the most accurate assessment of your output. The others can be manipulated. Kgms sold, that's what you get paid for. CI tells you whether the cow you have is suited to your system and whether she's being looked after properly.

Lots of things feed into these indicators and there's a huge amount of interaction between the vaious elements. If they're wrong you're loosing output. If they're right the next step is to ensure you're not overspending to have them right.

Land and labour have to be charged for. Labour at the average ind wage rate minimum. Land at the oppurtunity rental cost minimum. If you're still turning a profit at that then happy days. I wish I could charge my land in at rental costs. Id be away in a hack id I could.

Your last line says it all really, why include owned land charges when most sectors can't afford to put it in......
Yea sure , do a profit monitor, simple'n all as it is, with computers now you can do it as in depth as you like, monitor and control input costs as best you can, blah blah etc.,
But at the end figure, doesn't matter whether you call it profit, labour or land charges, that's what you live on and hopefully have a bit for reinvestment.
Everyone's in the real market now, can't see too many dairy farmers fighting with Teagasc to have labour charges included in profit monitors from now on .........like the drystock sector the end figure might be too embarassing if it's included

Dawggone

Greengrass1 wrote: »

So what your effectively talking about is you as land owner charging the business a rent for use of the land and then that's yours as well as your wage from the business?
Ye have been on about this for months here and tbh I never passed much attention on it

I farm as a company and charge rent at the going rate to the company.

"Land doesn't blink into existence".

It's also an efficient way to top up my salary without paying draconian social charges.

Have people reduced their salary in line with lower milk prices?

Timmaay

Dawggone wrote: »

I farm as a company and charge rent at the going rate to the company.

"Land doesn't blink into existence".

It's also an efficient way to top up my salary without paying draconian social charges.

Have people reduced their salary in line with lower milk prices?

What salary??? (That's being serious in comparison to if I was an engineer or some other outside job!). But Nay I finally had enough respect for myself to setup a direct debit into my personal account back at Xmas, sh1te milk price or not I'll be dammed if I'm reducing it now after spending 3 or 4 years sinking every penny and spare hour into getting this place to a level that it can generate a steady salary ha, in fairness the farm is 90% where I need it by now, so time to hide the chequebook and utterly slash any unnecessary spending.

oxjkqg

Any 2016 dairy bull selection thread on here yet?

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

What salary??? (That's being serious in comparison to if I was an engineer or some other outside job!). But Nay I finally had enough respect for myself to setup a direct debit into my personal account back at Xmas, sh1te milk price or not I'll be dammed if I'm reducing it now after spending 3 or 4 years sinking every penny and spare hour into getting this place to a level that it can generate a steady salary ha, in fairness the farm is 90% where I need it by now, so time to hide the chequebook and utterly slash any unnecessary spending.

+1.
My salary is €104k gross.
OH salary is €55k gross (what she was getting in Ireland for 22hrs work).

Owned land, by law, must be leased at €136/ha. and the company pays a further €20/ha land tax.

All company employees/directors must be paid at least the minimum wage which works out at €23k. There is no non-contributory pension here.

Good on you Tim. Does the farm pay you or do you pay the farm...

mahoney_j

oxjkqg wrote: »

Any 2016 dairy bull selection thread on here yet?

Bulls well picked at this stage ,a lot of top Bulls will not be there or very scarce if not already sorted

whelan2

oxjkqg wrote: »

Any 2016 dairy bull selection thread on here yet?

angus stock bulls the way milk price is

RightTurnClyde

whelan2 wrote: »

angus stock bulls the way milk price is

Three in the yard, and a fella with a white head on the way

freedominacup

rangler1 wrote: »

Your last line says it all really, why include owned land charges when most sectors can't afford to put it in......
Yea sure , do a profit monitor, simple'n all as it is, with computers now you can do it as in depth as you like, monitor and control input costs as best you can, blah blah etc.,
But at the end figure, doesn't matter whether you call it profit, labour or land charges, that's what you live on and hopefully have a bit for reinvestment.
Everyone's in the real market now, can't see too many dairy farmers fighting with Teagasc to have labour charges included in profit monitors from now on .........like the drystock sector the end figure might be too embarassing if it's included

You misunderstood me rangler. I meant that I'd be away if all I had to charge land at was nominal rental rates. My land charge is much higher, not nominal, cash cost.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

What salary??? (That's being serious in comparison to if I was an engineer or some other outside job!). But Nay I finally had enough respect for myself to setup a direct debit into my personal account back at Xmas, sh1te milk price or not I'll be dammed if I'm reducing it now after spending 3 or 4 years sinking every penny and spare hour into getting this place to a level that it can generate a steady salary ha, in fairness the farm is 90% where I need it by now, so time to hide the chequebook and utterly slash any unnecessary spending.

how is the money transfered treated for tax purposes, is it drawings?

mahoney_j

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Three in the yard, and a fella with a white head on the way

Bucking the trend here ,all freisan Ai for 6/7 weeks with the odd blue here and there and then let the Hereford off for a few weeks of fun !!,I'm hoping ye all breed no freisan heifers and I'm going to reap the benefits when milk hits 40 cent a litre again next year .dear in calf heifers and cows to sell for extortionate money ,Bulls ditto and an overflowing milk tank !!!!!,sure I have to be some bit positive anyway !!

freedominacup

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bucking the trend here ,all freisan Ai for 6/7 weeks with the odd blue here and there and then let the Hereford off for a few weeks of fun !!,I'm hoping ye all breed no freisan heifers and I'm going to reap the benefits when milk hits 40 cent a litre again next year .dear in calf heifers and cows to sell for extortionate money ,Bulls ditto and an overflowing milk tank !!!!!,sure I have to be some bit positive anyway !!

I wouldn't say you're bucking the trend at all mj. In this area you'd be behind the curve. Even the most conservative guys are buying cows literally by the dozen. One farm that only ever milked 70-80 cows extended the parlour to 27 units and put 170 through last weekend before one of the lads went on another buying spree on Mon.

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

Have people reduced their salary in line with lower milk prices?

Yup.

Until we were caught by the "rounding rules" and it turned out we had to put the coin straight back in the till.

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Yup.

Until we were caught by the "rounding rules" and it turned out we had to put the coin straight back in the till.

.

Wrong side of the decimal point?

I was just reading an article from the major farm accountancy group here saying that dairy farm revenues have halved except for Comté and Reblochon de Savoie...
Cash in your CoCo bonds and get making some cheese...

RightTurnClyde

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bucking the trend here ,all freisan Ai for 6/7 weeks with the odd blue here and there and then let the Hereford off for a few weeks of fun !!,I'm hoping ye all breed no freisan heifers and I'm going to reap the benefits when milk hits 40 cent a litre again next year .dear in calf heifers and cows to sell for extortionate money ,Bulls ditto and an overflowing milk tank !!!!!,sure I have to be some bit positive anyway !!

Good man MJ, I'll be depending on Buckers like you.

kowtow

Dawggone wrote: »

.

Wrong side of the decimal point?

I was just reading an article from the major farm accountancy group here saying that dairy farm revenues have halved except for Comté and Reblochon de Savoie...
Cash in your CoCo bonds and get making some cheese...

The milk is a bit flavourless yet this year... I put it down to the weather. Not so much measuring grass as counting it.

Having been barely housed all winter waiting for their new shed the girls are all staring at the building site like a bunch of Amish wives. You can see them thinking "I hope he has it ready in time for the summer, it's murderous wet over here".

Might give 'em a few bales of last years haylage and see if there is a detectable difference..

RightTurnClyde

kowtow wrote: »

The milk is a bit flavourless yet this year... I put it down to the weather. Not so much measuring grass as counting it.

Having been barely housed all winter waiting for their new shed the girls are all staring at the building site like a bunch of Amish wives. You can see them thinking "I hope he has it ready in time for the summer, it's murderous wet over here".

Might give 'em a few bales of last years haylage and see if there is a detectable difference..

Kowtow, Is flavour connected to protein levels. In your game do you have to test solids and quality

kowtow

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Kowtow, Is flavour connected to protein levels. In your game do you have to test solids and quality

If we make & sell raw milk cheese the quality rule is that cell count / thermo must be 3 x cleaner than the limit for co-op milk (which results in a cell count of 70k or below I think, most people would regard that as a maximum for quality cheese anyway). If we do end up selling raw milk cheese well probably have to arrange multiple TB tests as well to save the risk of destroying large quantities of cheese if a cow goes down.

As far as solids are concerned they dictate cheese yield - the kg per litre, if you like - and of course higher solids = more cheese. There are some additional variables, montbeliarde milk for example has a slightly higher yield because of the casein structure and soft cheeses contain more water hence higher yield all round. Jersey, Guernsey fatter milks lend themselves to a creamier cheese etc. all things being equal.

Apart from that the natural change in acidity, solids, and to some extent cell count as lactation progresses makes quite a big difference to the timing and process of cheesemaking, requiring more or less renetting for example as the season progresses... only beginning to touch on this now so will know more as we get to grips with it all..

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bulls well picked at this stage ,a lot of top Bulls will not be there or very scarce if not already sorted

Wanted to put lwr on heifers but he's only coming out fresh twice a wk. Doubt he'll go on any heifers at all they get done in evening after we finish up

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

how is the money transfered treated for tax purposes, is it drawings?

Yep drawings, but Largely irrelevant for self employed, you could draw down nothing during the year but if your end of year tax accounts say you made a 50k profit that's what you pay tax on! In my case what I draw down is definitely less than what I earn on paper, which I assume is impossible to avoid unless you have zero capital expenditure?

oxjkqg

ive them picked too i'm just interested to hear what other lads picked! Wont be any different to any other year same amount of dairy straws. first time ever will be using an xbred bull JE2097 I think he is.

Milked out

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Wanted to put lwr on heifers but he's only coming out fresh twice a wk. Doubt he'll go on any heifers at all they get done in evening after we finish up

Do you find improved conception rates in fresh compared to frozen gg in yer own herd? U do diy?

bogman_bass

oxjkqg wrote: »

first time ever will be using an xbred bull JE2097 I think he is.

He's a full Jersey

RightTurnClyde

kowtow wrote: »

If we make & sell raw milk cheese the quality rule is that cell count / thermo must be 3 x cleaner than the limit for co-op milk (which results in a cell count of 70k or below I think, most people would regard that as a maximum for quality cheese anyway). If we do end up selling raw milk cheese well probably have to arrange multiple TB tests as well to save the risk of destroying large quantities of cheese if a cow goes down.

As far as solids are concerned they dictate cheese yield - the kg per litre, if you like - and of course higher solids = more cheese. There are some additional variables, montbeliarde milk for example has a slightly higher yield because of the casein structure and soft cheeses contain more water hence higher yield all round. Jersey, Guernsey fatter milks lend themselves to a creamier cheese etc. all things being equal.

Apart from that the natural change in acidity, solids, and to some extent cell count as lactation progresses makes quite a big difference to the timing and process of cheesemaking, requiring more or less renetting for example as the season progresses... only beginning to touch on this now so will know more as we get to grips with it all..

It's great to be stuck into a project like that. Will all year round calving come into play with you to give you a more consistent supply of consistent milk. Or will you do like our local blue cheese manufacturer does, and get the coop to supply you some milk on the shoulders of the lactation.
Did Brown Swiss cows appear on your radar for their milk.
Sorry no more questions.

Well one more, when do we get to sample

Buford T. Justice XIX

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99294652&postcount=4891

Zero grazers, YLYL style:D

RightTurnClyde

First grass tetany this afternoon. Got her in time.

mahoney_j

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

First grass tetany this afternoon. Got her in time.

First and last hopefully ,**** of a thing