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Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Apparently, some people are slow to catch on.

    Or most people just have a higher expectation for evidence. You keep claiming that they're selling baby parts for profit but you STILL have not shown anything beyond the legal and common practise of receiving compensation for the costs of handling medical samples.

    You keep throwing the same stuff and hoping that eventually it will stick, but it doesn't. If you want anyone to believe the claim you need to provide something more than a misinterpreted and misrepresented conversation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Two Sheds wrote: »

    I'd say that this is the tip of the iceberg in terms of evidence against Planned Parenthood.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    hinault wrote: »
    I'd say that this is the tip of the iceberg in terms of evidence against Planned Parenthood.

    Prove it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    hinault wrote: »
    I'd say that this is the tip of the iceberg in terms of evidence against Planned Parenthood.
    What evidence?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    hinault wrote: »
    I'd say that this is the tip of the iceberg in terms of evidence against Planned Parenthood.

    Have yet to see any.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    hinault wrote: »

    Interesting article. Wrong, but interesting. Here are some facts that might be of interest to you:

    Today, PP domain was migrated to Amazon servers, a common response to web attacks as AWS are very secure. Hence the site maintenance page being visible, and probably the entire site will be back soon once the migration is complete and verified.

    Source

    The use of the word "campaign" is not the same as in advertising. If you read the HTML of the page you'll see that it is used as a template system. I work on eCommerce sites daily and I use a lot of the same code on a product page as I would on simple information pages as layout templates and structures can be used across both, but you can't therefore say that the info pages are now product pages. Content and context are important.

    ppaction.org is still running, how can this be? Well, quite simply, they are not the same website and not on the same servers. plannedparenthood.org (before the alleged attack) was on servers owned by Hedgehog Hosting, ppaction.org is with Convio, Inc. Different servers means that a DDOS or other hacks on one site will not effect the other.

    And finally, the tech-savvy crowd at The Federalist are using Internet Explorer... Not really evidence of anything, but it's never a good sign of web intelligence.

    So thanks for the link. It was an interesting read, but like with every other argument so far, it is simply the misinterpretation of people who want to find wrongdoing where there is none.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    When not hacking their own website, Planned Parenthood are engaged in a very active campaign to try to stifle all media commentary about Planned Parenthood's nefarious activities

    http://thefederalist.com/2015/07/28/planned-parenthood-tells-reporters-to-suppress-coverage-reporters-happily-agree/


  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    Another video (No.4)



  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    The Los Angeles Superior Court order issued Tuesday prohibits the Center for Medical Progress from releasing any video of three high-ranking StemExpress officials taken at a restaurant in May. It appears to be the first legal action prohibiting the release of a video from the organization...
    The temporary restraining order issued Tuesday will remain in place until a hearing on Aug. 19.
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/restraining-order-issued-anti-abortion-groups-video-32768879


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Two Sheds wrote: »

    StemExpress were mentioned by Planned Parenthood personnel in earlier videos by name.

    Wonder why they're not willing to allow publication of the statements made by their own executives?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    hinault wrote: »
    Wonder why they're not willing to allow publication of the statements made by their own executives?

    Maybe because it is illegal to record a conversation in California without the consent of both parties, thus making the recordings illegal?

    Or do you actually care that, if the videos were recorded in a state that has two-party consent laws, the videos were recorded illegally?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    According to testimony by Abby Johnson, PPFA in Houston, Texas, was making
    $120,000 per month selling the remains of babies killed at it's facility.

    https://twitter.com/abbyjohnson


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    hinault wrote: »
    According to testimony by Abby Johnson, PPFA in Houston, Texas, was making
    $120,000 per month selling the remains of babies killed at it's facility.

    https://twitter.com/abbyjohnson

    Abby Johnson? She has made a career from lying about Planned Parenthood. Even her "conversion" story has no evidence.

    But if you insist on listening to people like her ...
    Based on her experience, Ms. Johnson says she saw nothing in the video to indicate that Planned Parenthood is breaking the law.

    ...

    “To be perfectly honest, I was disgusted at many of the comments that I saw from people claiming to be pro-life, and the way that they were talking about Dr. Nucatola,” Ms. Johnson said.

    “That was very disturbing to me. If we’re going to say that we’re pro-life and we believe in the inherent dignity of all persons, that includes physicians who work at Planned Parenthood.”

    Source


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,884 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Funnily enough, didn't someone in this thread say women deserve no rights if they have an abortion? I can't say they wouldn't extend that reasoning to obstetricians and gynaecologists who provide them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    robdonn wrote: »
    Abby Johnson? She has made a career from lying about Planned Parenthood. Even her "conversion" story has no evidence...
    Since you're so insistent on others providing evidence of their claims, how about you provide evidence of your own claim?


  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    hinault wrote: »
    StemExpress were mentioned by Planned Parenthood personnel in earlier videos by name.

    Wonder why they're not willing to allow publication of the statements made by their own executives?
    David Daleiden has claimed that StemExpress execs. were recorded discussing delivery of intact babies, which may mean that they were born alive.
    http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/07/31/daleiden-planned-parenthood-intvw-camerota-newday.cnn


  • Moderators Posts: 51,751 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    David Daleiden has claimed that StemExpress execs. were recorded discussing delivery of intact babies, which may mean that they were born alive.
    http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/07/31/daleiden-planned-parenthood-intvw-camerota-newday.cnn

    so we're off abortion and now having suggestions of infanticide? How about providing some evidence for claims already introduced rather than adding more muck to the pile?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    SW wrote: »
    so we're off abortion and now having suggestions of infanticide? How about providing some evidence for claims already introduced rather than adding more muck to the pile?
    I gave you a link. I'm sure you're aware that intact, born babies are routinely left to die in the UK and US.

    This is doing the rounds as well -
    No+more+racism+from+confederate+flag_6c5e5b_5619429.jpg
    Planned Parenthood has never managed to shake off the dirt left by its racist, eugenicist founder, especially since it insists on proclaiming her a heroin.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,751 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    none of the links you've posted have shown illegal sales happening. Do you have one that does?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    SW wrote: »
    none of the links you've posted have shown illegal sales happening. Do you have one that does?
    Personally, I suspect that some medical professionals are on a nice little earner on the side. I hope the IRS is paying attention.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Personally, I suspect that some medical professionals are on a nice little earner on the side. I hope the IR is paying attention.

    You may have meant to post this on the conspiracy theory forum.
    Name names and lets start a nice libel case.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,751 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Personally, I suspect that some medical professionals are on a nice little earner on the side. I hope the IRS is paying attention.

    Did you not understand the post? :confused:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    galljga1 wrote: »
    You may have meant to post this on the conspiracy theory forum.
    Name names and lets start a nice libel case.
    That's ok, I'm allowed to have my suspicions. After all, last year our Revenue recouped 16m for tax evasion by medical personnel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Personally, I suspect that some medical professionals are on a nice little earner on the side. I hope the IRS is paying attention.

    The IRS? How many mobs do the Irish have over there?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Two Sheds wrote: »
    Where's your evidence that Abby Johnson lied? Do you not understand my post?

    sorry... different poster

    I believe that was me that you meant. :)

    Abby Johnson has made a lot of money from her story about how she was a pro-choice director at a Planned Parenthood clinic but had a change of heart after being asked on September 26, 2009 by a doctor to assist in an ultrasound-guided termination of a 13-week old foetus. She goes into great detail in her book about how she saw the foetus recoil and try to move away from the cannula, it looked like it was in pain which went against all she was taught.

    But the problem is that this procedure never happened. There are no records of an ultrasound-guided abortion that day, and all abortions done that day were performed on foetuses no older than 10 weeks. The physician on duty that day confirmed that he never used ultrasound-guidance that day and that Abby was never asked to assist in any procedures.

    When a journalist from Texas Monthly presented these facts to Abby, she stuck to her story but added, for the first time, the detail that the woman was black. According to PP's records the only black woman to receive an abortion in that clinic on that day was only 6 weeks pregnant. That is the difference between a one-quarter inch foetus and a 13 week old 3 inch foetus.

    So when she tries to add to her story she only digs herself into a bigger hole. And that's not counting the parts of the story that she leaves out, just 4 days before she resigned from PP she had been put on a "performance improvement plan" as the standard of her work had fallen. The night that she resigned from PP, she posted this on her Facebook wall:
    Alright. Here’s the deal. I have been doing the work of two full time people for two years. Then, after I have been working my whole big butt off for them and prioritizing that company over my family, my friends and pretty much everything else in my life, they have the nerve to tell me that my job performance is “slipping.” WHAT???!!! That is crazy. Anyone that knows me knows how committed I was to that job. They obviously do not value me at all. So, I’m out and I feel really great about it!

    There is no mention of her change of heart about the morals of abortion and no remorse for her involvement in them. This is the rant of a woman who was annoyed because she felt she was not being appreciated at work.

    Source


  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    An anti-abortion group that released videos purporting to show Planned Parenthood staff discussing the illegal sale of aborted fetal tissue has been sued by a group of abortion providers seeking to block the release of recordings it claims violate its members' privacy and threatens their safety.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-plannedparenthood-video-lawsuit-idUSKCN0Q52A720150731

    Nothing to hide?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Two Sheds wrote: »

    "The lawsuit seeks a court order halting further releases of videos containing names, addresses and other private information about NAF members"

    I cannot see the problem with that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Two Sheds wrote: »

    Yes they do have something to hide, and it is the same thing that you have the right to hide.
    The lawsuit seeks a court order halting further releases of videos containing names, addresses and other private information about NAF members, including information drawn from the group's meetings.

    The injunction is to block people's personal information from being released.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Two Sheds


    robdonn wrote: »
    I believe that was me that you meant. :)

    Abby Johnson has made a lot of money from her story about how she was a pro-choice director at a Planned Parenthood clinic but had a change of heart after being asked on September 26, 2009 by a doctor to assist in an ultrasound-guided termination of a 13-week old foetus. She goes into great detail in her book about how she saw the foetus recoil and try to move away from the cannula, it looked like it was in pain which went against all she was taught.

    But the problem is that this procedure never happened. There are no records of an ultrasound-guided abortion that day, and all abortions done that day were performed on foetuses no older than 10 weeks. The physician on duty that day confirmed that he never used ultrasound-guidance that day and that Abby was never asked to assist in any procedures.

    When a journalist from Texas Monthly presented these facts to Abby, she stuck to her story but added, for the first time, the detail that the woman was black. According to PP's records the only black woman to receive an abortion in that clinic on that day was only 6 weeks pregnant. That is the difference between a one-quarter inch foetus and a 13 week old 3 inch foetus.

    So when she tries to add to her story she only digs herself into a bigger hole. And that's not counting the parts of the story that she leaves out, just 4 days before she resigned from PP she had been put on a "performance improvement plan" as the standard of her work had fallen. The night that she resigned from PP, she posted this on her Facebook wall:



    There is no mention of her change of heart about the morals of abortion and no remorse for her involvement in them. This is the rant of a woman who was pissed off because she felt she was not being appreciated at work.

    Source
    Of course, Planned Parenthood can be trusted to furnish the full, untainted facts. :D

    'By their fruits you shall know them'. Abby Johnson now volunteers for a pro-life organisation and has abandoned her former lucrative profession. I'd say that qualifies as putting your money where your mouth is.


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