Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

hinault wrote:

We don't prosecute crimes committed in other jurisdictions in this jurisdiction

Wasn't there a case recently of a woman and her carer/ friend being prevented from travelling to Switzerland to a euthanasia clinic/ the carer being threatened with prosecution if they did.

Two Sheds

The man behind the campaign to expose Planned Parenthood -

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

The man behind the campaign to expose Planned Parenthood

Yeah, he even says himself that they don't discuss profits, the costs involved are for the transportation of medical material. They say that there is no additional costs to perform the actual procedure but when transporting a specimen in good enough condition for medical research it costs more than the usual disposal methods.

You are beating a dead horse here, the doctor in the video (the one at the start of the interview with Sean Hannity) even specifies that these women have signed documents for the foetus to be donated for medical research. The only costs involved are for transportation of the specimens, you can't just throw together a bag of organs and post them to someone.

Timberrrrrrrr

Two Sheds wrote: »

You could google this stuff yourself, you know.

Second Planned Parenthood baby body part selling video may be worse than the first

And what?

From your own link

Unfortunately, the eight minute video is heavily edited as with some we’ve seen in years past and many of the editing cuts take place right in the middle of or at the end of some of the most inflammatory statements by Gatter. I was unable to find a link to the full, unedited video in this case,

Honestly, let me film 2 or 3 little old ladies having lunch and with enough editing and manipulation I could make them look like serial killers!.

Reminds me of this

robdonn

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Reminds me of this

Haha, I was actually looking for that earlier! :P

Two Sheds

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And what?

From your own link



Honestly, let me film 2 or 3 little old ladies having lunch and with enough editing and manipulation I could make them look like serial killers!.

Reminds me of this

What a pity you don't bother to read beyond the bits that suit you. If you did you would have got to the full, unedited video.

Attention span.... goldfish...:rolleyes:


The Obama Administration is about to investigate ..... the people who made the video.

While congressional committees investigate Planned Parenthood’s practices, the Justice Department agreed to look into whether the group that released the sting videos obtained the footage legally.

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

What a pity you don't bother to read beyond the bits that suit you.

Hello pot, meet kettle....

Two Sheds wrote: »

The Obama Administration is about to investigate ..... the people who made the video.

Good! The people that recorded the video have made wild accusations about Planned Parenthood and even their 3 hour unedited videos do not support this. Not to mention that if the video was recorded in a state that has Two-party-consent laws (California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington) then it's existence is evidence that they have indeed broken the law. And considering that Dr. Mary Gatter is a medical director in Southern California then there is a high chance that the recording was illegal.

Two Sheds

robdonn wrote: »

Good! The people that recorded the video have made wild accusations about Planned Parenthood and even their 3 hour unedited videos do not support this. Not to mention that if the video was recorded in a state that has Two-party-consent laws (California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington) then it's existence is evidence that they have indeed broken the law. And considering that Dr. Mary Gatter is a medical director in Southern California then there is a high chance that the recording was illegal.

It's obvious that the pro-abortion Democrats are engaged in a damage-limitation exercise by attempting to shoot the messenger. I hope they use lots of rope so that when the rest of the evidence is revealed they'll be shown to have supported the ghouls in Planned Parenthood.

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

It's obvious that the pro-abortion Democrats are engaged in a damage-limitation exercise by attempting to shoot the messenger. I hope they use lots of rope so that when the rest of the evidence is revealed they'll be shown to have supported the ghouls in Planned Parenthood.

Do you not remember writing this?

Two Sheds wrote: »

What a pity you don't bother to read beyond the bits that suit you.

Attention span.... goldfish...:rolleyes:

They are being investigated because recording a conversation without the consent of both parties is illegal in California. And it is even worse if they filmed inside a facility.

Are you capable of rational thought? You seem so focussed on spreading the word that Planned Parenthood are monsters that you don't seem to care if the information is true or not... oh wait, Christianity forum. Nevermind.

Two Sheds

robdonn wrote: »

Do you not remember writing this?



Attention span.... goldfish...:rolleyes:

They are being investigated because recording a conversation without the consent of both parties is illegal in California. And it is even worse if they filmed inside a facility.

Are you capable of rational thought? You seem so focussed on spreading the word that Planned Parenthood are monsters that you don't seem to care if the information is true or not... oh wait, Christianity forum. Nevermind.

If you bothered to read the thread you'd see that I objected to this topic being buried in the Christianity forum. It should be front page news for the effect it's having on American politics but, like the Gosnell story, it's being widely censored by msm in Ireland.

The fake liberals everywhere are holding their breath (and everything else) as they worry about the looming exposure of their inhuman attitude to children. All they can now do is pretend to worry about the law as their can of filthy worms is opened. The bare-faced neck - "yes, we butcher babies and harvest their organs because we're not breaking the law... our law".

Delirium

Msm?

Two Sheds

SW wrote: »

Msm?

Sorry - mainstream media.

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

If you bothered to read the thread you'd see that I objected to this topic being buried in the Christianity forum. It should be front page news for the effect it's having on American politics but, like the Gosnell story, it's being widely censored by msm in Ireland.

My comment about the Christianity forum was supposed to be more derogatory, but it really highlighted your effort to spin anything. The "msm" is not censoring this story, they reported the about the videos when they were released and they all realised that it was a non-story. They can't print a story claiming that PP sell baby bits for profit when there is no evidence that they do this. You don't seem to get it, the videos (all of them) have no evidence whatsoever supporting your claim.

Two Sheds wrote: »

The fake liberals everywhere are holding their breath (and everything else) as they worry about the looming exposure of their inhuman attitude to children. All they can now do is pretend to worry about the law as their can of filthy worms is opened. The bare-faced neck - "yes, we butcher babies and harvest their organs because we're not breaking the law... our law".

Planned Parenthood save the lives of thousands of women around the world. They donate organs and body parts of terminated foetuses, with permission from the mothers, to medical research facilities so that the lives of other children can be saved. Planned Parenthood handle the transportation of the medical materials to the facilities which the cost of is then reimbursed.

Even look at the prices, $30-$100 per specimen. How could you possibly think they're making a profit from that after handling and transportation is taken care of? Nobody thinks they are trying to profit from this, Sherilyn J. Sawyer, the director of Harvard University and Brigham and Women’s Hospital’s “biorepository,” said that “there’s no way there’s a profit at that price.”

Sherilyn J. Sawyer wrote:

In reality, $30-100 probably constitutes a loss for [Planned Parenthood]. The costs associated with collection, processing, storage, and inventory and records management for specimens are very high. Most hospitals will provide tissue blocks from surgical procedures (ones no longer needed for clinical purposes, and without identity) for research, and cost recover for their time and effort in the range of $100-500 per case/block. In the realm of tissues for research $30-100 is completely reasonable and normal fee.

Similar statements have been given by Jim Vaught (president of the International Society for Biological and Environmental Repositories and formerly the deputy director of the National Cancer Institute’s Office of Biorepositories and Biospecimen Research) and Carolyn Compton (chief medical and science officer of Arizona State University’s National Biomarkers Development Alliance and a former director of biorepositories and biospecimen research at the National Cancer Institute).

So why are people looking into the legality of CMP's actions? Because they have lied, and continue to lie, in an effort to dismantle a service that helps thousands of people every year. And they always hit a wall with people like you that refuse to listen to actual facts but instead insist that an article with inflammatory language like "In addition to murdering thousands of babies, we now know Planned Parenthood is operating a chop-shop, selling murdered babies for parts" is anything more than just biased pieces of trash.

Not a NSA agent

robdonn wrote: »

Are you capable of rational thought? You seem so focussed on spreading the word that Planned Parenthood are monsters that you don't seem to care if the information is true or not... oh wait, Christianity forum. Nevermind.

This is the problem, the boy who cried wolf comes to mind. When PP are sacrificing souls to satan every week according to these groups you start to ignore them.

No matter what happens its a win win, either PP are guilty and its somehow something against abortion rather than the organisation or the liberals have covered it up along with the illuminati if they are found innocent.

Although if anyone knows about selling babies I would expect the RCC to know what its talking about.

robdonn

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

Although if anyone knows about selling babies I would expect the RCC to know what its talking about.

That's ancient history! They haven't done that in... 30 years?

Two Sheds

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

This is the problem, the boy who cried wolf comes to mind. When PP are sacrificing souls to satan every week according to these groups you start to ignore them.

No matter what happens its a win win, either PP are guilty and its somehow something against abortion rather than the organisation or the liberals have covered it up along with the illuminati if they are found innocent.

Although if anyone knows about selling babies I would expect the RCC to know what its talking about.

This is the problem with sticking threads like this in the Christianity forum - it attracts every second nutjob with religious hangups.

Two Sheds

robdonn wrote: »

My comment about the Christianity forum was supposed to be more derogatory, but it really highlighted your effort to spin anything. The "msm" is not censoring this story, they reported the about the videos when they were released and they all realised that it was a non-story. They can't print a story claiming that PP sell baby bits for profit when there is no evidence that they do this. You don't seem to get it, the videos (all of them) have no evidence whatsoever supporting your claim.



Planned Parenthood save the lives of thousands of women around the world. They donate organs and body parts of terminated foetuses, with permission from the mothers, to medical research facilities so that the lives of other children can be saved. Planned Parenthood handle the transportation of the medical materials to the facilities which the cost of is then reimbursed.

Even look at the prices, $30-$100 per specimen. How could you possibly think they're making a profit from that after handling and transportation is taken care of? Nobody thinks they are trying to profit from this, Sherilyn J. Sawyer, the director of Harvard University and Brigham and Women’s Hospital’s “biorepository,” said that “there’s no way there’s a profit at that price.”



Similar statements have been given by Jim Vaught (president of the International Society for Biological and Environmental Repositories and formerly the deputy director of the National Cancer Institute’s Office of Biorepositories and Biospecimen Research) and Carolyn Compton (chief medical and science officer of Arizona State University’s National Biomarkers Development Alliance and a former director of biorepositories and biospecimen research at the National Cancer Institute).

So why are people looking into the legality of CMP's actions? Because they have lied, and continue to lie, in an effort to dismantle a service that helps thousands of people every year. And they always hit a wall with people like you that refuse to listen to actual facts but instead insist that an article with inflammatory language like "In addition to murdering thousands of babies, we now know Planned Parenthood is operating a chop-shop, selling murdered babies for parts" is anything more than just biased pieces of trash.

If PP was talking about packaging or transportation it wouldn't be haggling, now, would it? :rolleyes:

As for saving lives by butchering babies so that it can save more lives - do you listen to yourself?

I'm looking forward to the remainder of the videos and watching the fake liberals tie themselves in knots as they show their true colours to themselves.

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

This is the problem with sticking threads like this in the Christianity forum - it attracts every second nutjob with religious hangups.

I'm going to post you a name tag with "Pot" on it.

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

If PP was talking about packaging or transportation it wouldn't be haggling, now, would it? :rolleyes:

As judged by the experts in the field that I quoted before, the prices of between $30-$100 is not profitable, it is probably at a loss. Haggling will get the price to the point where costs are fully covered, NOT for profit.

Two Sheds wrote: »

As for saving lives by butchering babies so that it can save more lives - do you listen to yourself?

Studying the bodies of unwanted and non-viable foetuses allows us to study human anatomical development which gives us a better understanding about how we work and how we can prevent and/or treat illnesses. It is the entire basis of people donating their body to science when they die. Or do you think that that is ridiculous because how can we possibly use a dead person to find a cure for a living person!

Two Sheds wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the remainder of the videos and watching the fake liberals tie themselves in knots as they show their true colours to themselves.

If actual evidence comes out that shows that PP have been selling specimens for profit, then I will be on the big old outraged train with you. But, as of yet, there is no such evidence, despite you constantly rolling your eyes and pointing at the same videos that everyone else saw and concluded that it wasn't evidence.

Two Sheds

robdonn wrote: »

As judged by the experts in the field that I quoted before, the prices of between $30-$100 is not profitable, it is probably at a loss. Haggling will get the price to the point where costs are fully covered, NOT for profit.

"I want a Lamborghini" D'oh!

robdonn wrote: »

Studying the bodies of unwanted and non-viable foetuses allows us to study human anatomical development which gives us a better understanding about how we work and how we can prevent and/or treat illnesses. It is the entire basis of people donating their body to science when they die. Or do you think that that is ridiculous because how can we possibly use a dead person to find a cure for a living person!

Or we could try not killing people in the first place. D'oh!

robdonn wrote: »

If actual evidence comes out that shows that PP have been selling specimens for profit, then I will be on the big old outraged train with you. But, as of yet, there is no such evidence, despite you constantly rolling your eyes and pointing at the same videos that everyone else saw and concluded that it wasn't evidence.

When PP is finally nailed I'm willing to bet you'll suddenly go silent, just as all pro-choice supporters lose their voices when a woman is killed by abortion or when a pro-abortion organisation like IFPA is discovered to be giving dangerous advice to women.
In the meantime, the fact that you support, rather than condemn, butchering babies in the womb, partial-birth abortion and the subsequent harvesting of organs tells us all we need to know about your moral compass. If we share the same train I'll be seriously concerned about where it's headed.

Delirium

Two Sheds wrote: »

"I want a Lamborghini" D'oh!

you realise it was a poor attempt at humour?

Or we could try not killing people in the first place. D'oh!

where did robdonn suggest killing people? they asked about the priniciple of donating tissue post-abortion. Should donations be banned or allowed?

When PP is finally nailed I'm willing to bet you'll suddenly go silent, just as all pro-choice supporters lose their voices when a woman is killed by abortion or when a pro-abortion organisation like IFPA is discovered to be giving dangerous advice to women.
In the meantime, the fact that you support, rather than condemn, butchering babies in the womb, partial-birth abortion and the subsequent harvesting of organs tells us all we need to know about your moral compass. If we share the same train I'll be seriously concerned about where it's headed.

I didn't realise that backstreet abortions were safer than ones carried out in hospitals. If you were actually concerned about women dying as a result of abortion, you'd not be calling on it to be banned.

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

"I want a Lamborghini" D'oh!

As SW just said...

SW wrote: »

you realise it was a poor attempt at humour?

Two Sheds wrote: »

Or we could try not killing people in the first place. D'oh!

If you're talking about whether we should allow abortions at all, or in America in this case, then that's a pointless argument. Abortion is available to women by law and by right. What we are discussing here is what happens afterwards.

Two Sheds wrote: »

When PP is finally nailed I'm willing to bet you'll suddenly go silent, just as all pro-choice supporters lose their voices when a woman is killed by abortion or when a pro-abortion organisation like IFPA is discovered to be giving dangerous advice to women.

If a woman is killed during an abortion then the process involved and mistakes made that lead to her death should be investigated so that it doesn't happen again, that's much better than just banning abortion which would be (excuse the ironically distasteful metaphor) throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Two Sheds wrote: »

In the meantime, the fact that you support, rather than condemn, butchering babies in the womb, partial-birth abortion and the subsequent harvesting of organs tells us all we need to know about your moral compass. If we share the same train I'll be seriously concerned about where it's headed.

You don't need to concern yourself with my moral compass, just sit back and relax as I drive this train. Chooo chooo! Next stop, ETERNAL HELL FIRE!!!

hinault

Two Sheds wrote: »

The fake liberals everywhere are holding their breath (and everything else) as they worry about the looming exposure of their inhuman attitude to children. All they can now do is pretend to worry about the law as their can of filthy worms is opened. The bare-faced neck - "yes, we butcher babies and harvest their organs because we're not breaking the law... our law".

Could not agree more.

hinault

SW wrote: »

you realise it was a poor attempt at humour?

where did robdonn suggest killing people? they asked about the priniciple of donating tissue post-abortion. Should donations be banned or allowed?

I didn't realise that backstreet abortions were safer than ones carried out in hospitals. If you were actually concerned about women dying as a result of abortion, you'd not be calling on it to be banned.

Is advocating for the legalisation of abortion compatible with Christianity?
Taking human life is completely incompatible with Christianity.

You appear to be someone who advocates for abortion in this section of boards.ie.

I think that such advocacy for abortion is totally inappropriate in what is supposed to be, at least notionally, a Christianity forum.

Keplar240B

sanctity/ˈsaŋ(k)tɪti/


noun
1.the state or quality of being holy, sacred, or saintly

galljga1

Two Sheds wrote: »

This is the problem with sticking threads like this in the Christianity forum - it attracts every second nutjob with religious hangups.

Q.E.D.

Delirium

hinault wrote: »

Is advocating for the legalisation of abortion compatible with Christianity?

I would like to think that Christians would be somewhat pragmatic about it at the very least, e.g. Fatal Feotal abornamalities or the womans life is in danger

Taking human life is completely incompatible with Christianity.

There are branches of Christianity that oppose abortion completely, some that support the model Ireland currently has, and others that would allow for abortion on request also.

You appear to be someone who advocates for abortion in this section of boards.ie.

Yes, I'm pro-choice. And I've argued for it on other forums on the site too.

I think that such advocacy for abortion is totally inappropriate in what is supposed to be, at least notionally, a Christianity forum.

If you wish to stop pro-choice opinions being expressed in the forum, you can avail yourself of the Feedback thread regarding this forum

Delirium

galljga1 wrote: »

Q.E.D.

MOD NOTE

Less of the baiting please.

Thanks for your attention.

robdonn

hinault wrote: »

Is advocating for the legalisation of abortion compatible with Christianity?
Taking human life is completely incompatible with Christianity.

It is fine with certain denominations.
Src

Protestant supporters of abortion rights include the United Church of Christ, the United Methodist Church, the Episcopalian Church, and the United Presbyterian Church, the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church (USA), The United Church of Christ, The United Methodist Church, and the Lutheran Women's Caucus.[12][39] The American Baptist Churches USA, Episcopal Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, the Presbyterian Church (USA) and The United Church of Christ consider abortion permissible under certain restricted circumstances.

hinault wrote: »

You appear to be someone who advocates for abortion in this section of boards.ie.

Which anyone, even a mod, can do.

hinault wrote: »

I think that such advocacy for abortion is totally inappropriate in what is supposed to be, at least notionally, a Christianity forum.

As explained above, not all Christians have the same view on this. And furthermore, not all mods are Christian. What you seem to prefer is having a mod with the same personal beliefs as you, which is in no way a part of their remit.

robdonn

hinault wrote: »

Could not agree more.

And I could not disagree more.

Well, now that we have presented the same amount of evidence we appear to be at a stalemate.