Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

lazygal

Two Sheds wrote: »

You may not like it, but the Irish Constitutions recognises the right to life of the unborn. That gives the unborn the right to protection under the Law.

The legal rights of another group not being properly vindicated is hardly a sensible reason to remove legal rights from the unborn, or from any other group.

When does the foetus stop having a legal team protect its right to life? Suppose a woman requests a termination under the POLDP Act and is refused, is the legal team for the foetus discharged at the point of refusal and does its right to life then end if the woman travels elsewhere to terminate the pregnancy? Should women be able to travel to kill the unborn?

Two Sheds

lazygal wrote: »

When does the foetus stop having a legal team protect its right to life? Suppose a woman requests a termination under the POLDP Act and is refused, is the legal team for the foetus discharged at the point of refusal and does its right to life then end if the woman travels elsewhere to terminate the pregnancy? Should women be able to travel to kill the unborn?

All of this has been settled many moons ago. Women may and do travel to avail of abortion in other jurisdictions.

The abortion debate in Ireland centres on whether or not the Irish state should allow and facilitate the act of abortion (intentional killing of the unborn) in its own jurisdiction.

lazygal

Two Sheds wrote: »

All of this has been settled many moons ago. Women may and do travel to avail of abortion in other jurisdictions.

The abortion debate in Ireland centres on whether or not the Irish state should allow and facilitate the act of abortion (intentional killing of the unborn) in its own jurisdiction.

So the unborn who can be taken else where to be killed don't concern you at all.

Two Sheds

lazygal wrote: »

So the unborn who can be taken else where to be killed don't concern you at all.

Is that so?

It's reasonable that people would want to protect children from a gruesome death, but we have to wonder why anybody would be anxious to see even more children killed?

Delirium

Two Sheds wrote: »

All of this has been settled many moons ago. Women may and do travel to avail of abortion in other jurisdictions.

The abortion debate in Ireland centres on whether or not the Irish state should allow and facilitate the act of abortion (intentional killing of the unborn) in its own jurisdiction.

Ireland currently allows abortion where the womans life is at risk due to 1) physical illness, 2) physical injury in an emergency or 3) suicide.

Are legal teams assembled to advocate for the foetus in the three instances listed above?

lazygal

Two Sheds wrote: »

Is that so?

It's reasonable that people would want to protect children from a gruesome death, but we have to wonder why anybody would be anxious to see even more children killed?

There's been 4,000 unborn children a year killed since the eighth amendment, give or take a few because we don't have the stats, because women have the right to travel to kill them. Are you ok with that law? Do you think it should be repealed? Should women who do travel and ensure the unborn meet a gruesome death by swallowing a pill be prosecuted on their return, in the same way that we can prosecute those who travel to abuse born children in other countries? Or is your main concern that women in Ireland who can't travel to kill the unborn elsewhere should continue to be forced to remain pregnant? Are you anxious to see even more forced gestation in Ireland?

Two Sheds

A second video has been posted, which again shows the rotten underbelly of Planned Parenthood.

A PP doctor is seen haggling over the price of 'specimens'. Why would anybody haggle over fixed costs?

(unable to post link)

lazygal

Two Sheds wrote: »

A second video has been posted, which again shows the rotten underbelly of Planned Parenthood.

A PP doctor is seen haggling over the price of 'specimens'. Why would anybody haggle over fixed costs?

(unable to post link)

Should women in Ireland be allowed to travel to avail of abortion services from Planned Parenthood?

Two Sheds

lazygal wrote: »

Should women in Ireland be allowed to travel to avail of abortion services from Planned Parenthood?

Should they? They are!

If you want to change the law then start a campaign (but just so you know - we've been over this years ago.)

Should Enda Kenny now distance himself from his supporters in Planned Parenthood?

lazygal

Two Sheds wrote: »

Should they? They are!

If you want to change the law then start a campaign (but just so you know - we've been over this years ago.)

Should Enda Kenny now distance himself from his supporters in Planned Parenthood?

So you're totally happy with women travelling to kill the unborn, which may have had a legal team to protect its right to life prevent women terminating pregnancies, and you don't want the law changed? That makes me wonder about your concern for the unborn, and whether it's more about forced gestation than preventing the unborn being killed.

Two Sheds

lazygal wrote: »

So you're totally happy with women travelling to kill the unborn, which may have had a legal team to protect its right to life prevent women terminating pregnancies, and you don't want the law changed? That makes me wonder about your concern for the unborn, and whether it's more about forced gestation than preventing the unborn being killed.

I'm very impressed with your mind-reading skills. You should be on the stage.

Here are a few links -
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/21/new-planned-parenthood-video-shows-top-doc-haggling-over-price-fetal-body-parts/

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/planned-parenthood-support-for-irish-leader-at-boston-college-is-targeted-by-antiabortion-groups-208047001-237590511.html

lazygal

Two Sheds wrote: »

I'm very impressed with your mind-reading skills. You should be on the stage.

Here are a few links -
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/21/new-planned-parenthood-video-shows-top-doc-haggling-over-price-fetal-body-parts/

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/planned-parenthood-support-for-irish-leader-at-boston-college-is-targeted-by-antiabortion-groups-208047001-237590511.html

Fox news? Always fair and balanced of course.
So you're totally happy with women travelling to kill the unborn, you just don't want them to do it here. Or to consent to donate body parts if they kill the unborn in a Planned Parenthood clinic during a late stage abortion. What about the 90% of abortions that don't result in the possibility of donating tissues or body parts? Are they ok once women travel abroad to avail of them?

Two Sheds

lazygal wrote: »

Fox news? Always fair and balanced of course.
So you're totally happy with women travelling to kill the unborn, you just don't want them to do it here. Or to consent to donate body parts if they kill the unborn in a Planned Parenthood clinic during a late stage abortion. What about the 90% of abortions that don't result in the possibility of donating tissues or body parts? Are they ok once women travel abroad to avail of them?

Never slow off the mark, Mattie McGrath TD has launched into the Irish Family Planning Association for its affiliation with Planned Parenthood -

The IFPA which is a member of Planned Parenthood International must immediately condemn these actions and make it explicitly clear that it does not support the manipulation of abortion procedures for the purposes of maximising monetary profit by trading in human body parts.

http://mattiemcgrath.ie/ifpa-must-disassociate-itself-from-illegal-selling-of-human-body-parts-mcgrath/

lazygal

Mattie McGrath AND Fox news?!

Any response to whether women in Ireland should be able to travel to kill the unborn which may have had a legal team to protect its right to life in Ireland?

Actually suppose one of those body parts saved another person. Should it have been incinerated instead? What about requiring the right to life of the born to be vindicated by the use of another's body with or without consent, would that not be prolife?

Two Sheds

The extremes of the abortion industry are no longer claims that are published on Pro-Life websites. We now have it from the mouths of those involved.

The President of the United States is fully supportive of the barbarity and illegality of Planned Parenthood.

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/07/20/obama-spokesman-on-selling-aborted-baby-body-parts-we-will-not-defund-planned-parenthood/

robdonn

What are these videos supposedly proving?

PopePalpatine

From Fox News to Mattie McGrath to LifeNews...wow.

Two Sheds

robdonn wrote: »

What are these videos supposedly proving?

In case you still don't 'get it' -

Planned Parenthood's legal counsel has responded to a Congressional investigation by hinting that future undercover footage may include the dissection and harvesting of an aborted baby.

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

In case you still don't 'get it' -

OK, but no videos have been released that show aborted foetuses being sold for profit. The unedited version reveals that she was actually discussing reimbursements costs for legal donation. The entire argument is a farce.

And the legal council is not worried "that future undercover footage may include the dissection and harvesting of an aborted baby" because it is illegal, they are worried because filming it is a gross violation of someone's privacy.

I suggest you actually watch the full video instead of listening to a single, incredibly biased source.

hinault

lazygal wrote: »

Should women in Ireland be allowed to travel to avail of abortion services from Planned Parenthood?

You want my view?

In the instance you cite, any mother who abandons her duty to protect her unborn child doesn't deserve rights.

PopePalpatine

Sure why not bring back the Magdalene Laundries while you're at it?

eviltwin

hinault wrote: »

You want my view?

In the instance you cite, any mother who abandons her duty to protect her unborn child doesn't deserve rights.

Does that opinion extend to parents of born children?

lazygal

hinault wrote: »

You want my view?

In the instance you cite, any mother who abandons her duty to protect her unborn child doesn't deserve rights.

So you think all girls and women who happen to be pregnant must remain pregnant regardless of any other circumstances.

Should women be prosecuted when they return from elsewhere having had an abortion?

What about girls and women who give up born children for adoption? Are they failing in their duty to the born?


And finally do boys and men have any such duties to the unborn?

Two Sheds

robdonn wrote: »

OK, but no videos have been released that show aborted foetuses being sold for profit. The unedited version reveals that she was actually discussing reimbursements costs for legal donation. The entire argument is a farce.

And the legal council is not worried "that future undercover footage may include the dissection and harvesting of an aborted baby" because it is illegal, they are worried because filming it is a gross violation of someone's privacy.

I suggest you actually watch the full video instead of listening to a single, incredibly biased source.

There are now two videos. I've watched both.

It's amazing, but not surprising, what some people will defend.

robdonn

Two Sheds wrote: »

There are now two videos. I've watched both.

It's amazing, but not surprising, what some people will defend.

There is the original, heavily edited version which makes the topic of conversation ambiguous, and then there is the second, uncut version, which makes it very clear that they are talking about costs surrounding legal donations.

If there is a third video then please share so that we can watch, but the level of trust that I have with the people who made the videos has plummeted. So far all they have shown is that they are willing to lie for their cause.

Two Sheds

robdonn wrote: »

There is the original, heavily edited version which makes the topic of conversation ambiguous, and then there is the second, uncut version, which makes it very clear that they are talking about costs surrounding legal donations.

If there is a third video then please share so that we can watch, but the level of trust that I have with the people who made the videos has plummeted. So far all they have shown is that they are willing to lie for their cause.

You could google this stuff yourself, you know.

Second Planned Parenthood baby body part selling video may be worse than the first

Not a NSA agent

Hot Air was launched on April 24, 2006, with Michelle Malkin as founder/CEO. Since then, the site has become one of the largest right-of-center blogs on the Internet. Here’s the very first post that appeared at Hot Air–posted at 4:15am after bleary-eyed preparations and an intense team effort to launch the site. Here were Michelle’s reflections on the site’s six-month anniversary.

In 2010, HotAir was acquired and became part of the Townhall/HotAir network alongside Townhall.com and Townhall Magazine in a network of conservative websites with over four million monthly readers.

One day we might get an unbiased source.

Two Sheds

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

One day we might get an unbiased source.

I suspect the only unbiased source you'll accept will be the press office of Planned Parenthood.

The good thing about these videos is that it forces the supporters of abortion to admit to themselves (the rest of us already knew) what it is they do to children.

If a video is released showing a child being dumped into a bucket to die, then we'll finally have cut through the double-speak.

https://youtu.be/BtpdYlcbVRQ

Not a NSA agent

Two Sheds wrote: »

I suspect the only unbiased source you'll accept will be the press office of Planned Parenthood.

Planned Parenthood would also be biased :rolleyes:

hinault

lazygal wrote: »

So you think all girls and women who happen to be pregnant must remain pregnant regardless of any other circumstances.

What "other circumstances".

lazygal wrote: »

Should women be prosecuted when they return from elsewhere having had an abortion?

We don't prosecute crimes committed in other jurisdictions in this jurisdiction

lazygal wrote: »

What about girls and women who give up born children for adoption? Are they failing in their duty to the born?

In that specific example I don't think that they've failed in their duty to the children they have borne.

It's interesting that you decide to discuss the born children and not the unborn children.

lazygal wrote: »

And finally do boys and men have any such duties to the unborn?

Most definitely. Society should compel men in that regard.