The Batman (Matt Reeves) spoilers from post 1030

Beechwoodspark · 02-03-2022 9:39am

Is Barry keoghan in it? Not a fan

pjohnson · 02-03-2022 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118717983#Comment_118717983

He has some agent.

Effects · 02-03-2022 10:16am

I'd imagine he's more recognisable when we see a bit more of him in the film, as opposed to in the trailers.

MOR316 · 02-03-2022 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118717983#Comment_118717983

Briefly...He plays a well known character, who is locked up in Arkham Asylum

Slydice · 04-03-2022 1:04am

Saw it this evening on the IMAX in Cineworld. I enjoyed it. Not a leave-your-brain-at-the-door film but plenty of action too.

For the 3 hours, there were moments where the big screen came into play but not sure the big screen experience is a must.

The big screen and sound system was pretty cool for one scene though..

when the batmobile? batcar? .. you know.. the bat-drivey-thing was introduced

BIG RUMS, BIG FLAMES, BIG ATMOSPHERE!

Some home entertainment systems would probably deliver on most of it though.

For the story, this is an intro film and I felt it delivered what was advertised in the trailers.

It is long and I'd say that comes from it wanting to deliver a mystery story along side all the action pieces.

At times I was worried it might be starting to dawdle but it kept moving and throwing up twists to keep it going.

I have to say about Colin Farrell, between this film and his recent performance in the North Sea series.. he's finding a good niche for himself as an intimidating enough baddie.

Future: yeah, this is an intro film. I could see more in this universe. I also wouldn't mind seeing more

The characters so far feel like they could carry another film. Not sure how Barry Keoghan would get on if he's really the Joker. Depends on the story I would guess and if Matt Reeves can build him in to feel a similar part of the Universe as the others so far.

MOR316 · 04-03-2022 4:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118729189#Comment_118729189

2 things that confused me was the passport. Why was Falcone looking for it when the Mayor already had it in his safe?

And, how did the recording of Falcone end up on the news? Did GCPD do it? Or was it Batman?

Also, I don't think Keoghan will be used in the future. Couldn't even be bothered to change his accent or laugh. Flavour of the month!

brevity · 04-03-2022 5:05am

Did anyone else find the music overbearing?

MOR316 · 04-03-2022 5:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118729530#Comment_118729530

Barely noticed it tbh.

Only Batman's theme and Avi Maria...

Although, that was a banger of a tune in the Iceberg Lounge.

brevity · 04-03-2022 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118729532#Comment_118729532

Really?

I found it quite annoying by the end. In nearly every scene there was music or that screeching violin theme or Batman’s theme.

MOR316 · 04-03-2022 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118730017#Comment_118730017

Yeah, I can honestly say that I barely noticed except for the Avi Maria and Batman theme.

Actually, I also noticed the Catwoman theme but, purely because it's a cracking piece of music

johnny_ultimate · 04-03-2022 12:02pm

This does so much I should like that I’m disappointed it didn’t work for me at all. I admire its attempt to make a less action-orientated, more procedural film - the set pieces are brief (and striking), and the vast majority of the time is given over to Batman being a moody detective. The opening 15 minutes in particular are quite strikingly different - it opens with no fanfare, and there’s some cool visual choices in the opening act. The score throughout certainly stands out as impressively momentous (I was less fond of one repeated music cue, which - along with a very emo Pattinson - gives the film a sense of trying a little too hard to be uber-moody).

Alas, the film ultimately felt inert to me in a way that really made the three hours feel like three hours. There’s no sense of mystery or even momentum to the central procedural stuff. It all gets bogged down by plot machinations, and the final act ‘Gotham in peril’ stuff feels like it kinda comes out of nowhere. Reeves sometimes throws in some intriguing stuff about a Batman still trying to figure out his place in the world and the city. But it’s too scattershot to really land, and overall the film is surprisingly flat and plodding. And I wish it wasn’t, because there’s the seed of a good Batman movie here, and one that’s refreshingly different to the superhero norm.

MOR316 · 04-03-2022 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118730482#Comment_118730482

In my opinion, the film needs that third act. Without it, Batman doesn't become The Batman he should be. It's necessary imo.

Falthyron · 04-03-2022 2:41pm

I saw this last night and I can safely say 'The Dark Knight' remains as the best Batman film. There's a lot to say about 'The Batman' and the more I think about it, the more I have issues with it.

Theme: There is a very distinct theme/tone with Tim Burton's Batman and Nolan's Batman. One is more creepy and leans into it, the other tries to offer a grounded more realistic Batman. 'The Batman' however feels like a mix of the two and it never really leans into a clear theme or tone. There are flavours of Watchmen and Rorschach (narration), Fincher's 'Seven', Nolan's Batman, Burton's Batman, the Arkham games, and film-noir, but it doesn't have it's own clear theme. It's a mish-mash of bits from here, there, and everywhere. Moreover, it borrows a lot from those aforementioned films.

Characters: Too many secondary characters diluting any interest I would have in their arc/progression. You could almost remove the entire crime family aspect from the film and it would achieve a shorter runtime and produce a more focused narrative on The Riddler. The film also makes the confusing assumption that this is both an origin film but also expects the audience to 'know things'. For example, Gordon says he only trusts Batman, but we have no idea why? All of the cops in Gotham challenge Gordon's defence of Batman, but we are left to imagine why that is. Penguin was excellent albeit brief in screentime. Catwoman could have been anyone but Catwoman - there is no need for her to have been Catwoman at all. Paul Dano was good and I would have liked to see more of him, but he doesn't get much time other than one excellent scene between him and Batman.Jeffrey Wright is a great actor, but spends most of this time offering exposition dialogue to explain things we could put together. I wasn't a fan of Torturro as Falcone - I feel a bigger presence was needed.

Music: I am a huge fan of Giacchino - saw him in Dublin a couple of years ago, and his theme for Batman is great, but the use of Ave Maria is overdone.

Direction: I wonder if Warner Brothers' handling of the Snyder Cut played into the loose grip over runtime and direction for this film. Perhaps WBs were too concerned with another 'Release the Reeves Cut'-type scenario on their hands if they meddled in this film too much? A lot of strange choices were made in the direction, a I love Cloverfield and the two Apes films, but there is a sense of rudderlessness going on with this film. The third (or was it fourth?) act was completely unnecessary and fell into the standard superhero film trope.

Bizarre things:

The explosion in the church. How? I mean HOW did he not only survive that but also come away unscathed?!

How was he able to work out every riddle so quickly? Again, we are to assume he is incredibly smart and 'the world's greatest detective', but we aren't shown this as part of an origin story?

How did 'a flying rat' not lead him to think 'Batman'? A falcon? Really?

Why does everyone move reaallllllyy slowwwwlllly? Even the scene with the Bat in the cage? Must have ran for about 2 to 3 minutes? Why?

Was it necessary to show two bikes leaving a graveyard?

Why did the Batmobile conk out at it's first reveal?

The dialogue was a bit jarring at times, particularly the Gordon and Batman scenes; it felt disjointed.

Why does Batman and Bruce Wayne act/behave the exact same, regardless of being in costume?

The flow from the Falcone/Bruce conversation to Bruce/Alfred was far too rushed.

Why does Batman believe the words of a criminal?

How the film could have been improved: Cut out all Falcone/Moroni/Penguin stuff. Batman could have visited the club to speak with the DA and while there got into a scuffle or bumped into Penguin et al as a cameo scene (setting the scene for The Batman 2) or at the funeral. Focus purely on a psychological thriller that challenged Batman's psychological state by facing The Riddler. He should have been the primary and only antagonist. This would have allowed for the development of Batman's character, Alfred's, The Riddler's and Gordon's. Lean more into the detective stuff (we saw one gadget), Bruce's mental state, the Riddler's background, and played up their battle as an analogy for the psychological fragility of Gotham City as a whole. Like a knife dangling upon an edge and it could fall either way. Cut out the 4th act - completely unnecessary. The film should have ended with the interrogation scene and played into the emphasis of 'we' from The Riddler, leaving the audience toying with the idea that Batman was complicit in what happened but also alluding to the possibility that the 'we' refers to someone else pulling the strings and controlling Riddler.

A 6.5/10 and even writing this brings up even more niggling things of 'Why'.

'Why did Bruce have massive scarring and bruising on his back, but then a couple of days later, nothing?' Were the creators unsure as to the period of time that passes during this film? 'Why was Penguin relaxed and cosy with Batman when he first meets him, but then shíts the bed when he hears a roaring engine - and presumes it's Batman?' 'Why would The Riddler sink the city and kills thousands of people affected by the corruption he too was affected by?' 'Why kill the new Mayor who represented change and tackling corruption?' 'Why does it feel like Batman is feared by criminals, but unknown to everyone else - particularly at the very end with the flare scene and helping the National Guard?' 'Why does Batman tell people to not use guns and kill but it's okay to paralyse and beat the living shít out of people?' Did Batman kill someone and make him this mopey and learned his lesson, so he feels obligated to warn others to not make the same mistake?

There is potential here, but this outing feels like it lacks a clear direction/tone, too many side characters with minimal character development while also expecting the audience to know certain things already, but not know others and that led to confusion. It borrowed from too many other sources without defining it's own distinct identity.

If you like Batman, go and see it, but don't expect the best Batman or Film of the Year either.

P.S. The Spoiler Tag system in new Boards is horrific

MOR316 · 04-03-2022 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118731357#Comment_118731357

Anyone with any knowledge of Batman knows why Gordan trusts Batman. It's also set in year 2 so it can't be included.

The majority of the cops are corrupt and are on Falcone's payroll and even those that aren't, are not close to Batman. A masked vigilante.

The explosion, I have no idea. Baffling

It's not an origin story so why would we need to know the origin of that, in something that isn't an origin story when he's two years into his career? Also, Riddler bested him throughout the entire movie. What film did you watch?

Why would it lead him to think Batman? That would have made zero sense.

I don't know why certain scenes moved slower. That's just nit picking for the sake of nit picking

It conks out because it's the first time it's been used and probably for affect. Hardly worth point scoring...

Because he's obsessed with being Batman and doesn't want to be Bruce Wayne. That is explained numerous times and why the final act is very important to character development, something else which you're questioning...

He believes it because The Riddler showed something wasn't right about his father, he's a young, emotive, traumatised Bruce Wayne, looking for answers. He was also right to believe it because Thomas Wayne was corrupt. Again, not a clue what your problem is with that?

No clue about the scarring or why it disappeared. A small continuity error but hardly worth pissing on the film as it's not important!

Penguin shat the bed because he saw it was Batman, shot at Batman, knew Batman had discovered a dead body and what he was up to...Like again, it's all there in the scene so I have no idea why that's bugging you.

Again, you weren't watching this movie at all. Riddler's plan was to flood the city because it didn't matter who the Mayor was, the city was full of broken promises and was always going to be corrupt so he wanted rid of the entire place. When the floods came, the safest place was the Gotham City Garden, all the important members of Gotham's society would be there and The Riddler's followers would pick them off, one by one. That's the reason he asked for Batman at Arkham so has to spare him as he thought they were working together...

He's feared by criminals because of what he does, obviously! Do you want the **** kicked out of you and to be landed in jail? Unknown to everyone else because they don't see him as someone that is a beacon of hope for the city. They don't see him as someone that protects them. That's why the last act is important because he realises he's been doing it wrong for two years and he needs to be more. By leading those people out and by helping them, he has done that. Compare and contrast with the guy in the opening scene in the subway. He just stares at him

Batman has always beaten the **** out of people...Comics, Cartoons, Games, Movies... Yano, like that movie, The Dark Knight? I think you're just trolling or haven't a bull's notion what you're talking about at this point.

Nah, would be the fact his parents were killed in front of him that made him mopey... That's a big thing in the story of Batman...

Dude, either you went in there just to try and **** on the film, you're trolling or you really didn't pay much attention to the story.

"The film should have ended with the interrogation scene and played into the emphasis of 'we' from The Riddler, leaving the audience toying with the idea that Batman was complicit in what happened but also alluding to the possibility that the 'we' refers to someone else pulling the strings and controlling Riddler."

Again, you weren't paying attention. The Riddler kept referring to "we" as he saw him and Batman as a team, cleaning up the corrupt. He saw him as a friend and ally. He even says this in the interrogation scene!

Dude, go watch it again because you weren't paying any attention at all. Or better yet, perhaps don't.

How did that recording of Falcone get on the news and why did Falcone look for the brazzer's passport if the Mayor had it in his safe? They're actual plot holes.

I ain't saying the movie is perfect but, you've made up quite a lot of stuff there that's actually answered in the movie

EDIT: Just realised I may come across as a tosser. Apologies. No offence meant. I'm just baffled as to why you're using certain things that were explained in the film to bash it... The gliding scene and bomb scene, him getting up without a mark are good examples to bring up for criticism

MOR316 · 04-03-2022 3:42pm

Jesus, these new Spolier tags are gank!!

kerplun k · 04-03-2022 6:05pm

Going to see this later this evening. Very much looking forward to it.

Hego Damask · 04-03-2022 10:43pm

Wow

This was a fantastic film, I loved the Nolan Batman's but always felt his Gotham was too sanitized ... this was more of the dark gothic Gotham we know from the Batman universe.

Who was that at the end that the riddler was speaking to ? Joker or was it 2 face ?

MOR316 · 04-03-2022 11:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118734010#Comment_118734010

The former... He'll be recast though.

Never even bothered changing his accent or laugh

MOR316 · 04-03-2022 11:37pm

AidoEirE · 05-03-2022 12:41am

How do you spoiler tag now? Just seen it and want to discuss it without ruining it for people

kerplun k · 05-03-2022 12:49am

Really enjoyed it. It’s probably the most Batmany film of all the Batman and Batman related films that came before it. It borrows elements from the Burton and Nolan films. If your comparing this to the Nolan films, and there’s plenty there to compare, I’d say this shades Nolan’s first part of his trilogy.

Now that the world has been set and a lot the leg work has been done, I’d love to see at least one more movie from Reeves and Pattinson.

MOR316 · 05-03-2022 12:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118734858#Comment_118734858

Sequel is already in the works according to the riddle site giving out in the movie.

From all those references in the movie, I'm fully expecting Hush or Riddler to come back as Hush due to his obsession with Bruce Wayne.

johnny_ultimate · 05-03-2022 1:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118734819#Comment_118734819

If you’re on mobile, there’s the paragraph symbol (¶) in the bottom left of the comment box. Select the text you want to spoiler, click that, click the quotation mark option, and then the spoiler option.

Same procedure on web, but the ¶ symbol is to the left of the comment box.

AidoEirE · 05-03-2022 1:34am

The falcone voicemail came from selinas phone, it was a voicemail from when her friend tried to ring her.

It is revealed in the same scene that falcone has been controlling the city for the last 20years mayors,da,police.

Batman give the phone to Jim who then gives it to the news to expose falcone.

Was that green adrenalin batman took a form of venom?

MOR316 · 05-03-2022 2:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735023#Comment_118735023

Went to see it again tonight and got the phone thing. Thanks for answering :) The passport thing is another thing that bugs me. Him getting blown away by the bomb, without a mark is another... That's not a spoiler, its in the trailer.

Could be... Think it was just adrenaline. If it was venom, he would have jacked the **** out like Bane and he would have been the prisoner talking to Riddler at the end, not Joker. Even then, Bane is wayyyyy down the line for Batman

Bane was always the final test for Batman, physically and mentally. TDKR done Bane justice but, the ending was so bad

Brief_Lives · 05-03-2022 3:21am

That was a damn good movie...

MOR316 · 05-03-2022 3:27am

Rewatching the bomb scene...

He got his hands up to protect his unshielded mouth...

Would that stop that damage? Hell no!...Just something I copped. Artistic licence etc

fritzelly · 05-03-2022 3:35am

So as a massive fan of the Nolan trilogy (bar the last film) will I be disappointed by this - I see its currently scoring 9/10 on IMDb

alchemist33 · 05-03-2022 9:49am

I was disappointed with it. Other people might like it for the reasons I didn't and will likely find it true to other iterations of Batman - constant rain, emoBruce, slooooow. Dune was a slow film but I was always engaged; here, not so much. Very much a Frank Miller vibe about it at times too.

I'm sure I'll be in the minority but it won't be for everyone.

steve_r · 05-03-2022 10:06am

Bit of a mixed bag. I'd agree with a lot of the comments above.

I really liked the focus on the detective part in the first hour, felt like it was coming straight out of the comics. Likewise, it really felt like Gotham.

Then, as the story progresses

Batman goes from figuring out the riddles really quickly to struggling with the most basic one. The Falcone/Politics plot was unnecessarily convoluted and could have been told in a much cleaner way. I'd agree with the others that the final act was probably needed to show Batman moving from a vigilante to a hero but it is a bit jarring in the context of the rest of the film. Personally, I'm bored to tears by the Joker as a villain at this point and I'd much rather any other Batman villain. I don't think they spent enough time with Alfred to establish that relationship. I liked Farrell as the Penguin but from a plot perspective if you took him out of the film it wouldn't make a difference. Likewise, I thought Zoe Kravitz was very good but I thought her tie in to Falcone was a bit forced.

The Batman (Matt Reeves) ***spoilers from post 1030***

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The Batman (Matt Reeves) spoilers from post 1030