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Angelus

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    #122
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    jcd5971 wrote: »
    Yes how dare people try and be supportive in a time of bereavement, hate to be awful but what else did you want them to say "ara suur she's worm food now" some people just can't be helped smh
    If you really hate to be awful, why not just not say that?


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    #123
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    robdonn wrote: »
    It could definitely be argued that it is the most watched religious programme because of it's time slot, but I think that has been debated to death in another thread so I won't press it.
    It could; if RTE generally moved popular programs to less popular timeslots to see if they continued to perform well I imagine it would be an equally interesting exercise with the Angelus. I'm not sure they do though, and obviously if it is still to be the Angelus it could only move to 6am and midday. It would certainly be fascinating if it was still the most watched religious program when in a 6am slot.


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    #124
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Absolam wrote: »
    It could; if RTE generally moved popular programs to less popular timeslots to see if they continued to perform well I imagine it would be an equally interesting exercise with the Angelus. I'm not sure they do though, and obviously if it is still to be the Angelus it could only move to 6am and midday. It would certainly be fascinating if it was still the most watched religious program when in a 6am slot.

    I would definitely support that experiment. :P


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    #125
    jcd5971
    Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭jcd5971


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    It is equally as insensitive as a 'worm food' comment, and entirely thoughtless, and entirely indefensible.

    Nonsense people try to reassure and console individuals after a bereavement, there is nothing insensitive about that they do what they can, and if some religious type offers a few prayers or blessings, well it shows they at least give a ****, looking to pick a fight over it is just disappointing.

    My girlfriend is religious ( I am not at all) and God forbid ( pun intended) anything happened to her, then her friends would say things like that, and while it would do nothing for me I would at least know they care and were probably dealing with their on grief as well

    Yeah the comment I made was a bit ( very) crass and reading it back I regret typing it, but I stand by the point I was making, even if it was delivered poorly. I apologise for that there was no need of it.


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    #126
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    jcd5971 wrote: »
    Nonsense people try to reassure and console individuals after a bereavement, there is nothing insensitive about that they do what they can, and if some religious type offers a few prayers or blessings, well it shows they at least give a ****, looking to pick a fight over it is just disappointing.

    I agree that the sentiment of saying it is good, it's better than saying something negative, but there is a side to it though that recognises that a non-religious family probably has children that were not raised to believe in an afterlife.

    This is really a topic of it's own but to put it briefly, when a small child is raised in a family not believing in an afterlife then the grieving process is slightly different. There is no "Mommy is in heaven and you'll see her again some day", part of the grieving is the accepting that the person is simply gone. This is a thought that even adults have trouble accepting at such an emotional time, but it can be a lot harder for children. And when someone then comes along, with the best of intentions, and says that they will see them again in heaven or words to that effect, it undermines the process for the family.

    We all know that religion's power is at it's peak when someone is in personal distress, it claims to offer easy answers to difficult questions. Children can be very susceptible to this as it offers an answer that they can comprehend more easily and is hard to reverse once they have taken it in.

    I agree that it's not something to start a fight over, the intentions of the person is to offer comfort and not to try convert anyone, but when attending a funeral of a non-religious family it can do unseen damage by introducing the fairytale version of death.


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    #127
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »
    well, i mightn't be entirely happy with the solution, but I probably would move...

    What about calling the guards on Magic? You'd be within your rights to.

    But the core of Magic's argument is that just because something happens for long enough to become a tradition doesn't make it right or moral for that thing to continue.

    I'd go so far as to argue that if something has become traditional so much as to be considered a sacred cow then it's begginings stem from an immoral act, like, say forcing a specific form of religious worship on the national airwaves in a country which ostensibly is a secular republic.

    The proper place on TV for the angelus bells is EWTN, the rcc's own tv station.


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    #128
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    I'd go so far as to argue that if something has become traditional so much as to be considered a sacred cow then it's begginings stem from an immoral act
    That's a pretty odd argument.
    Are you saying that because something has become traditional it is therefore considered beyond criticism?
    And if it is beyond criticism it necessarily stems from an immoral act?
    It's not apparent how either conclusion must follow from the observations.


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    #129
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,775 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    here the new 'People's Angelus' or rather Roger Childs Angelus http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/the-peoples-angelus-30003637/
    The People's Angelus is RTÉ One’s weekly showcase for aspiring filmmakers & artists. We welcome non-verbal submissions that are conducive to prayer or reflection for people of all faiths and none. For information, email peoplesangelus@rte.ie

    http://www.thejournal.ie/peoples-angelus-new-films-changed-update-2398157-Oct2015/ same company won tender again

    rehashed statement http://www.newstalk.com/The-Angelus-is-getting-an-update-to-be-inclusive-of-people-of-all-faiths-and-none


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    #130
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poyEmiIp6U8


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    #131
    Staph
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Staph


    So they're going to be inclusive....but still call it the angelus......


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    #132
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Staph wrote: »
    So they're going to be inclusive....but still call it the angelus......

    Its as inclusive as a catholic ethos primary school...which is that basically its not really and the belief is that non-catholics should be thankful they are getting a look in at all.


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    #133
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    I'll vote for Star Wars Angelus. Every day. But it should finish with the immortal words of Ben Kenobi every time.


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    #134
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    Absolam wrote: »
    I'll vote for Star Wars Angelus. Every day. But it should finish with the immortal words of Ben Kenobi every time.

    'These aren't the droids you're looking for'...?
    'You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy'...?

    Sorry, no youtube heere, I can but guess..


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    #135
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    pauldla wrote: »
    'These aren't the droids you're looking for'...?
    'You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy'...?
    Sorry, no youtube heere, I can but guess..

    Remember... the Force will be with you. Always.

    Even without youtube you should have got that one....


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    #136
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    Absolam wrote: »
    Remember... the Force will be with you. Always.

    Even without youtube you should have got that one....

    Well, old Obi Wan came out with a lot of lines. 'Stay away from the power couplings' might be a more useful end to the Angelus. Or 'This little one is not worth the trouble'. Or 'I will never join you, Dooku'.

    Not 'Come here, my little friend. Don't be afraid' though. I think that's already being discussed on another thread....


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    #137
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    As an aethist I like the angelus. It is a good daily reminder that most of the people I deal with on a daily basis believe in beasties and fairies. Helps me keep perspective on life.


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    #138
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Staph wrote: »
    So they're going to be inclusive....but still call it the angelus......
    Yes, that's how "inclusion" works from a catholic perspective - just invite everybody along to join in catholic prayers.


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    #139
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Meanwhile, no less a public intellectual than Michael Healy-Rae has weighed in, explaining that

    http://www.killarneytoday.com/td-leave-our-angelus-alone/
    Mr Healy-Rae wrote:
    I strongly condemn any change in the way the Angelus is presented. It has been with us for decades and any watering down of it should not be allowed.

    Comments on KillarneyToday's comment page on facebook suggest that Healy-Rae has said something as popular as it is populist, no doubt entirely by accident:

    https://www.facebook.com/killarneytoday/posts/1633711230229669


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    #140
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Whole thing is rather "meh" for me
    I'm fully in support of Secularism but I cared as much about getting rid of the Angelus as I did about the Presidential Age Referendum passing
    it's waaaaaay down on my list of priorities


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    #141
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    it's waaaaaay down on my list of priorities
    It's way down everybody's list of priorities. And while there really are far, far more important things to worry about though, it is worth discussing it when it's up for discussion, as it was recently.

    In this case, even just dropping the catholic part of the name and call it "The People's Reflection" or something like really would make it fully inclusive. Simply calling it the "People's <Name of Catholic Prayer>" is not inclusive, no matter how sincerely Roger Childs thinks to the contrary. If the shoe were on the other foot, and if it were named "The People's Rejection of A Deity", people would be rightly upset. But people aren't upset with the opposite - they've simply got used to the privilege to the point of not even seeing it any more.


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    #142
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,775 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Childs was on against Nugent who is a very precise debater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dn9lB8NPNw Childs says secularism shouldnt dictate to the 90% self described catholics in Ireland


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    #143
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    expectationlost wrote: »
    Childs was on against Nugent who is a very precise debater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dn9lB8NPNw Childs says secularism shouldnt dictate to the 90% self described catholics in Ireland

    When one side uses fairies and beasties and an old novel as fact and the other side uses rational and science then it is time the majority were told to move aside and get with the program. Laughable stuff. How can anyone believe this tripe?


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    #144
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #145
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,120 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    expectationlost wrote: »
    Childs was on against Nugent who is a very precise debater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dn9lB8NPNw Childs says secularism shouldnt dictate to the 90% self described catholics in Ireland

    I presume MN pulled him up on the 90% figure?

    The census showed 84%, but many of those would not have self identified as catholic.


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    #146
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #147
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,775 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    I presume MN pulled him up on the 90% figure?

    The census showed 84%, but many of those would not have self identified as catholic.
    84% 90% not much difference


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    #148
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    expectationlost wrote: »
    84% 90% not much difference

    It's a difference worth noting none the less, next census it'll likely be 80% or lower


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    #149
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,775 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Cabaal wrote: »
    It's a difference worth noting none the less, next census it'll likely be 80% or lower
    I noted it but, It wouldn't really make much difference to the debate they were having


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    #150
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    pauldla wrote: »
    Well, old Obi Wan came out with a lot of lines. 'Stay away from the power couplings' might be a more useful end to the Angelus. Or 'This little one is not worth the trouble'. Or 'I will never join you, Dooku'.
    Not 'Come here, my little friend. Don't be afraid' though. I think that's already being discussed on another thread....
    All Obi Wans lines are of course nuggets of unparalleled wisdom. Even the latter shows how an innocent conversation with an astro droid can be recharacterised as something sinister if you stretch credulity enough; you should certainly put it forward on the other thread :D


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    #151
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    Absolam wrote: »
    All Obi Wans lines are of course nuggets of unparalleled wisdom. Even the latter shows how an innocent conversation with an astro droid can be recharacterised as something sinister if you stretch credulity enough; you should certainly put it forward on the other thread :D

    I do hope you're not suggesting something untoward about the Jedi order, moving Knights from one planet to another for reasons that are never quite explained..

    'Use the Force, Luke! Like I showed you with the puppets...force it...'

    (If you haven't watched the Family Guy Star Wars parodies, do so now!)


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