The Federations Economy after the Dominion War

Calhoun

I think a flaw of the galaxy was the time taken to split into two, the main warbridge was on the nacel side and the saucer section was very slow and a big target.

Compare to the defiant which was primarily a warship and rather than exploration.

However the discussion is a bit redundant as the federation will always have a mix of ships inline with its core value of peaceful exploration.

Would be interesting to see how the last couple of wars ect impact on that philosophy and their economic model of virtually cashless society.

helimachoptor

IvySlayer wrote: »

The Odyssey took a hell of a pounding before she was rammed. In my opinion a Galaxy class would beat a Defiant class one on one. Galaxy class can also seperate its saucer from the main drive.

Completely agree but when you look at it from a resource perspective, how many defiants could you make with the resources that it takes to make a galaxy? A few anyway, galaxy isn't going to win against a few defiants .

The first attack on the odyssey blew out the nacelle.

You'd also assume that during the seperste on sequence there's a time where neither section can do anything

darkpagandeath

helimachoptor wrote: »

Completely agree but when you look at it from a resource perspective, how many defiants could you make with the resources that it takes to make a galaxy? A few anyway, galaxy isn't going to win against a few defiants .

The first attack on the odyssey blew out the nacelle.

You'd also assume that during the seperste on sequence there's a time where neither section can do anything

The Defiant class are the federations only warships, Ablative armour pulse phasers the list goes on. At range I would give a Galaxy class a chance but once the Defiant got close I think it would be over regardless of saucer separation. Look what happened to Warfs Klingon capital ship in the mirror universe vs a Defiant class. Remember the Defiant was brought into being to defend against the Borg something the Galaxy class could not do.

Rawr

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The Defiant class are the federations only warships, Ablative armour pulse phasers the list goes on. At range I would give a Galaxy class a chance but once the Defiant got close I think it would be over regardless of saucer separation. Look what happened to Warfs Klingon capital ship in the mirror universe vs a Defiant class. Remember the Defiant was brought into being to defend against the Borg something the Galaxy class could not do.

Agreed.

Makes me wonder how a Defiant would compare against a Sovereign Class, which feels very much the like an streamlined and upgraded Galaxy (although a good bit smaller by the looks of things).

There were probably very few Sovereigns available during the war, and might have been limited to the USS Sovereign, Enterprise E, and a handful of others. Could be the reason we don't see any during the battles.

IvySlayer

One Defiant wasn't built to take on a Cube, a whole fleet was.

Let's not be silly, a Sovereign would annihilate a Defiant.

Cookie_Monster

IvySlayer wrote: »

Let's not be silly, a Sovereign would annihilate a Defiant.

pretty much

Destroyer / Destroyer Escort vs Heavy Battleship

Kiith

I wouldn't use early day encounters with the Dominion as a good test of a ship. Starfleet ships had trouble with Dominion weapons, and they often went straight through their shields. Hence why Weyoun was surprised when DS9 withstood the first barrage from the Dominion fleet.

A Galaxy for me would take out a Defiant any day. It's a total mis-match though, as i don't see the Defiant as a ship type that would be designed to take on a Galaxy. I always saw it as a fast, powerful frigate. Huge firepower, and can take a hell of a beating for a ship it's size, but it's not something for prolonged engagements. Hit and run, behind enemy lines type scenarios. The Galaxy was more like a ship of the line. Big and slow but with pretty great firepower and 360 degree coverage with it's phasers.

As for Mirror universe Defiant against the Negh'Var class, that was a once off i'd say. You had the original designer of the Defiant flying against a big slow ship that has poor weapon tracking. Galaxy wouldn't have that problem.

Indricotherium

The Defiant doesn't do to well againt the Excelsior class USS Lakota in Paradise lost.

Daith

Kiith wrote: »

As for Mirror universe Defiant against the Negh'Var class, that was a once off i'd say. You had the original designer of the Defiant flying against a big slow ship that has poor weapon tracking. Galaxy wouldn't have that problem.

Which is the point people are missing here. It's all about the people on the ship. There's no reason why a capable crew in a Defiant couldn't take down a Galaxy class ship.

Hell in "Peak Performance" the Enterprise has trouble with an 80 year old Constellation class because of the people on that ship. The Enterprise-D was brought down by an ancient Klingon Bird of Prey because of one man.

Indricotherium

Indricotherium wrote: »

The Defiant doesn't do to well againt the Excelsior class USS Lakota in Paradise lost.

In saying that. The Defiant is crewed by main characters so it's generally never going to lose, and it's abilites / strengths / weaknesses ebb and flow with the requirements of the plot.

Of course every now and then the requirements of the plot mean main characters die and ships get destroyed.

Crews being equal 1 Gal beats 1 Def
BUT
You can pump out several Defiant class in same time and cost as 1 Galaxy.

Myrddin

I don't know, I reckon a Defiant would give a stock Galaxy a decent fight. A galaxy has very out dated weaponry in comparison to pulse phasers & quantum torpedoes. Those quantum's do a LOT of damage. A Galaxy upgraded ala the Lakota though, no, I think it'd win convincingly.

Come on though. Same period Def and Gal. The Enterprise had a few upgrades even during the series so never became obsolete

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

Come on though. Same period Def and Gal. The Enterprise had a few upgrades even during the series so never became obsolete

Not saying it was obsolete, just out dated in terms of defensive systems. We've never seen a stock one with ablative armour, pulse phasers, or quantum torpedoes. In comparison to Defiant era weaponry, the galaxy class was definitely behind the times, & all things considered, a Defiant class ship poses a much larger threat than the likes of an old Bird of Prey for example (Generations AND Rascals).

Imagine that the Gal shields are its key defence

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

Imagine that the Gal shields are its key defence

Couple of quantums would see that defence seriously tested

Myrddin

Myrddin wrote: »

Couple of quantums would see that defence seriously tested

You mean phasers, against shields, surely??

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean phasers, against shields, surely??

Why only phasers? We've seen the Defiant use them many times, and against many different types of ships. Surely all those ships wouldn't have had their shields down?

In the below we see a Breen battleship destroyed with just four torpedoes (1:04). Granted there's no visible shield effect, but again, how many ships have we seen these torpedoes used against...they couldn't all have shields down?

Torpedos were meant to be used after shields were down but writers ignored it. It's not that they won't work but the concentrated energy of phasers drained sheilds better.

It's actually one of the only things the Space Voyage films got right. During the Kobyashi Maru simulation Faux-hura protests at firing torpedoes as the battle cruisers sheilds were still up

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

Torpedos were meant to be used after shields were down but writers ignored it. It's not that they won't work but the concentrated energy of phasers drained sheilds better.

Interesting. I thought that photons etc were originally developed so that ships could have an in-warp weapon?

helimachoptor

in every star trek game.. Shields V Phasers, Hull Vs Torpedoes..

Theres no shields in that clip but it must surely be a plot device

Myrddin

Myrddin wrote: »

Interesting. I thought that photons etc were originally developed so that ships could have an in-warp weapon?

They were used as such, not suffering from dopler effect but originally was for concussive damage to wide hull area.

Yeah, the games really run with it

Indricotherium

Galaxy class ships would seem to be a deeply flawed design.....

USS Yamato ... destroyed by a software issue

USS Odessey ... destroyed due to lack of manueverability

USS Enterprise ... destroyed due to inability to cope with obselete ship attacking using very slightly unorthodox tactics

It would seem to me given the obviously large resource requirement in building a Galaxy class ship, their survivability should be much better.

Myrddin

Indricotherium wrote: »

Galaxy class ships would seem to be a deeply flawed design.....

USS Yamato ... destroyed by a software issue

I guess software that ultimately controls a matter/anti-matter reaction, and which has been compromised by alien programming is pretty important eh?

USS Odessey ... destroyed due to lack of manueverability

Or was it a collision with another much smaller/faster ship that was making an intentional suicide run?

USS Enterprise ... destroyed due to inability to cope with obselete ship attacking using very slightly unorthodox tactics

Or was it multiple hits to the secondary hull with effectively no shields?

Myrddin

Myrddin wrote: »

I guess software that ultimately controls a matter/anti-matter reaction, and which has been compromised by alien programming is pretty important eh?



Or was it a collision with another much smaller/faster ship that was making an intentional suicide run?



Or was it multiple hits to the secondary hull with effectively no shields?

And Riker asking for alternatives to "fire everything from the flagship at this puny ship"

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

And Riker asking for alternatives to "fire everything from the flagship at this puny ship"

Ha, astonishingly bad writing there:

Writer 1 - "Hmm, how can we get rid of the Ent-D?"
Writer 2 - "I know, we'll just make Riker forget his entire experience, & make him more concerned about damage reports than actually saving the ship & crew!"
Writer 3 - "Excellent, I love it...lets do that"

However, the point about the Galaxy class ship being a 'deeply flawed design' has no merit...you could apply the examples given to any other ship class & get the same results.

helimachoptor

Defiant.. could go all



Then you have an expensive galaxy taken out by a cheaper Defiant

the cross series conversations are interesting, Kira and Riker would so be banging..

Data and Tuvok on the same ship would be a snooze fest...

Id like to see the Chief on a starship again

The Galaxy is a ship with civilians, labs, medical facilities, schools etc.
It's a ship of exploration that honestly would beat a lone Defiant. Of course the Defiant is cheaper, it's a floating gun and that's it

Indricotherium

[QUOTE=Myrddin;96485611

Or was it multiple hits to the secondary hull with effectively no shields?[/QUOTE]

We're talking HMS Dreadnaught taking down USS George HW Bush.

Indricotherium

Indricotherium wrote: »

We're talking HMS Dreadnaught taking down USS George HW Bush.

A guy standing in a dingy with a shoulder mounted rpg/missile could take out anything afloat if he could get a shot off