The Federations Economy after the Dominion War

Indricotherium

Economy

We see over the course of TnG and DS9 that the Federation has an incredible ability to rebuild and re-arm. Wolf 359 devastated the Star Fleet, yet only 5 years later they were able to fight a war on a grand scale, with so many ships, that Wolf 359, seemed barely a skirmish.

The Dominion has some clear parallels with WW2, and while the Federation’s role in the war is much closer to that of the Soviet Union, the Federation’s frighteningly productive economy, is somewhat reminiscent of the United States as is the frightening ability to re-arm, and re-build.

In the late 40’s, the United States was producing 50% of the worlds manufactured goods. They needed to prop up half of Europe through the Marshall plan, in order to provide a market for this productivity.

We see at the end of Voyager, that the federation has conjured a new slave caste, which is only going to increase production by an order of magnitude. It is made clear in Voyager, that this slave race is to be denied property rights in the Federation. Presumably their part in the economy is simply to produce produce produce, and not to consume.

Where will all of this surplus production go? Some sort of Marshall plan to prop up the Klingon Empire. In my view, the Klingon Empire, an ailing empire, badly administered, an archaic relic of a time that has passed, who stood alone against the enemy, until events elsewhere dragged what would become the allies into the war, are very clearly the allegory to the British in WW2. The British were the biggest beneficiaries of the Marshal plan drawing down more than a quarter of it.

But the United States was limited by things like supply chains, and natural resources, labour costs, all that stuff. The Federations industrial machine is unfettered by such worries. Resources, by and large conjured from the void, as is labour with the advent of the holo slave race.

Rebuilding the Federation and annexing the Cardassian Union will only occupy the federation for so long. With their incredible overproduction, expansion will be the only option. Thankfully, for the alpha quadrant, the Federation now has the blow off valve of the wormhole, to spill that production through.

We’ve seen in TOS, that Star Fleet Officers are often appointed as “administrators” to colonies on the outskirts of the Federation, in a similar fashion to how military officers were granted swathes of land by empires throughout history.

This expansion can’t last forever. Even with the Federations ruthless ability to expand and annex systems, and the new frontier of the gamma quadrant.

We’ve seen many times in our own world (and more recently our own country) what happens when production outstrips consumption and market expansion slows down.

Where then for the Federation?

Myrddin

I'd say years of rebuilding will be required, for the Federation at least. Yes they've an impressive production rate, though we're looking at not just ships here, but outposts, colonies, production facilities, starbases, & many other facets of the Federation. The Federation was on the brink of being conquered by an invading force, and that's not easily turned around.

The Klingons & Romulans too will have significantly similar tasks. That's all before we even mention Cardassia, which would have to be supported by the Federation, and ideally the Klingons & Romulans too...though I'm not sure those two would devote resources to help rebuild the Cardassian infrastructure, a race they likely blame for the Dominions near domination of the quadrant. Cardassia would eventually re-establish itself, though they'd carry a huge stigmatic burden at that point.

Holo graphic rights will come later, & will be a messy one for the Federation as a hologram is not instantly sentient, it's something that happens to only some of them in certain environments. It will have come though, & I don't think holo-workers being slave labourers would have lasted very long after Voyager returned. I think the Doctor would have campaigned tirelessly to win rights for holograms, & with him in the Alpha Quadrant where people can see & meet him, opinions and attitudes would have changed fairly rapidly.

helimachoptor

holograms as a slave race... too much like BSG.. look what happened with the Hirogen

Myrddin

helimachoptor wrote: »

holograms as a slave race... too much like BSG.. look what happened with the Hirogen

The Hirogen intentionally made them sentient though (from memory anyway), whereas a hologram by initial nature is an extension of a computer program really.

Indricotherium

Myrddin wrote: »

I'd say years of rebuilding will be required, for the Federation at least. Yes they've an impressive production rate, though we're looking at not just ships here, but outposts, colonies, production facilities, starbases, & many other facets of the Federation. The Federation was on the brink of being conquered by an invading force, and that's not easily turned around.

The Soviet Union, the Federations allegory, was in a similar state in 1945. It didn't stop them expanding their sphere of influence as far as Germany.

I don't see why the Federation wouldn't perform similarly, if not a good deal better.

Myrddin wrote: »

The Klingons & Romulans too will have significantly similar tasks. That's all before we even mention Cardassia, which would have to be supported by the Federation, and ideally the Klingons & Romulans too...though I'm not sure those two would devote resources to help rebuild the Cardassian infrastructure, a race they likely blame for the Dominions near domination of the quadrant. Cardassia would eventually re-establish itself, though they'd carry a huge stigmatic burden at that point.

Neither the Klingons or the Romulans have displayed the Federations ability to rebuild and rearm.

The Klingon Empire has lurched from one crisis to another since the TOS days. It's days as a galactic level power are numbered. The war was particularly hard on the Klingon Empire, given that they stood alone for much of the conflict. Their technological parity with the Federation is also over now, with the Federation leaping decades into the future technologically at the end of Voyager.

Admittedly, almost nothing is known of the Romulan economy. However, given their predisposition to peaceful isolation, and the fact that the Federation is maintaining a sympathetic puppet government by means of a programme of covert manipulation, and assassinations, I don't anticipate much of a threat from that direction.

Myrddin wrote: »

Holo graphic rights will come later, & will be a messy one for the Federation as a hologram is not instantly sentient, it's something that happens to only some of them in certain environments. It will have come though, & I don't think holo-workers being slave labourers would have lasted very long after Voyager returned. I think the Doctor would have campaigned tirelessly to win rights for holograms, & with him in the Alpha Quadrant where people can see & meet him, opinions and attitudes would have changed fairly rapidly.

The Federation recognises all sorts of things as sentient lifeforms. The Crystalline Entity, Soong Androids, Microbrains on and on the list goes.

Holograms are self aware, and conscious much more quickly than, for example, human children. The only reason the Federation refuses to recognise the rights of holograms, is economic, and political. It is shown in Voyager that slaves in the mines have become sentient in some way.

It's not going to end any time soon.

Myrddin

Indricotherium wrote: »

Admittedly, almost nothing is known of the Romulan economy. However, given their predisposition to peaceful isolation...

Have a watch of Balance of Terror, The Enemy, The Defector,& Face of the Enemy again...because you clearly need to re-evaluate what the term 'peaceful isolation' actually means. The Romulans are very different to how you would portray them to be.

The Federation recognises all sorts of things as sentient lifeforms. The Crystalline Entity, Soong Androids, Microbrains on and on the list goes.

Holograms are self aware, and conscious much more quickly than, for example, human children. The only reason the Federation refuses to recognise the rights of holograms, is economic, and political. It is shown in Voyager that slaves in the mines have become sentient in some way.

It's not going to end any time soon.

So any old hologram created on the holodeck is self aware in your view? Interesting, wrong, but interesting By nature they are not sentient, it's possible to become sentient, but not a given (as has been seen on countless episodes). I believe Starfleet would investigate why some holograms are able to become sentient, & legislate for it to protect their rights.

Indricotherium

Myrddin wrote: »

I believe Starfleet would investigate why some holograms are able to become sentient, & legislate for it to protect their rights.

Whatever legal gymnastics they perform in order to designate a section of society as sub-human, they will still have a slave race to turbocharge the production side of their economy, so my point on that stands.

Even if (unlikely) they do recognise holograms rights, they will still be left with a massive source of labour and production, with almost no consumption to match it.

Expansion and war is the only option.

Cookie_Monster

Indricotherium wrote: »

Economy

We see over the course of TnG and DS9 that the Federation has an incredible ability to rebuild and re-arm. Wolf 359 devastated the Star Fleet, yet only 5 years later they were able to fight a war on a grand scale, with so many ships, that Wolf 359, seemed barely a skirmish.

Wolf 359 destroyed a mere 39 ships. Single engagements in the dominion war cost 3 times this or more. I'd hardly call 39 ships a big deal, and estimates of 10k plus fleet would be realistic I think
http://www.ditl.org/article-page.php?ArticleID=14&ListID=WhatsNew
Admiral Shelby state in the ep that those 39 would be replaced in a year. With no other major threats at the time that wouldn't exactly be a rush job either.

This expansion can’t last forever. Even with the Federations ruthless ability to expand and annex systems, and the new frontier of the gamma quadrant.

A lot of starfleet seems to be transport or reserch based, consider how many merchant ships are active on todays seas there will always be a demand for starships to ferry everything & everyone around Fed territory without the need for constant expansion.

We’ve seen many times in our own world (and more recently our own country) what happens when production outstrips consumption and market expansion slows down.

Our current economic modes are 100% redundant in the Federation era though so you cannot compare.

Where then for the Federation?

Plenty of firefighting left to do all over the place, a devastated Cardasia to deal with, an utterly devastated Romulan Empire to prop up after the events of the new ST film - the initial cause of the timeline shift is still in effect in the prime universe (ie the destruction of the Romulan home system)

link wrote:

If NCC numbers are broadly chronological, then as with the Starbase numbering system there is no real reason to suppose large gaps have been left in the numbering sequence. This would point to the highest figure yet for Starfleet numbers, with some seventeen hundred ships built in total for Starfleet by the TOS era, rising to over sixty four thousand during TNG and seventy four thousand by the time of Voyager. While it could be assumed that many of the ships would have been long since retired, this is not necessarily so - for instance the USS Repulse was established as still being in service when Dr. Pulaski transferred to the Enterprise-D from there in 2365, yet it has the low number of NCC 2544. So it's perfectly possible that most of the ships built in Starfleet history are still in service.

A fleet so large at first seems to strain credibility, but in fact it would fit some aspects of canon quite well. We know from Picard's statement in 'Star Trek : First Contact' that the Federation is spread across eight thousand light years. If we take the Federation to be a fairly solid block of space of this size - a common image is of something like an octopus with a central core and tentacles or even disconnected chunks of territory radiating out from it, thus allowing species like the Klingons to be much closer than 4,000 light years to the core - then ships on the outer fringe would be some eighteen years away from the core worlds at the normal cruise speed of Warp factor 6 (TNG scale), or two years away at the really high speed of Warp 9.6. Indeed, if we assumed a cylindrical Federation 3,000 light years thick (the approximate thickness of the galaxy where Earth is) and 8,000 light years across, then some 75% of it would lie more than 5 years travel from the core at TNG Warp 6. So no massive fleet could ever be gathered to fend off the Borg, unless they were kind enough to send a decade or so of warning.

The above figures are an only an approximation which make no attempt to accomodate an octopus-shaped Federation, but if we are looking at large territories lying thousands of light years away then it is always going to take years to gather any significant percentage of Starfleet no matter what the shape. This figure is important, because there has been only one crisis in all of Trek history in which the Federation did indeed get this kind of lead time - the Dominion war. It was three years between the loss of the USS Odyssey and the start of the Dominion war, and the war itself lasted two years. And it was for this crisis that we first saw fleets comprising hundreds upon hundreds of ships. On the admittedly rough calculations above, the Federation could gather 17,000 ships of a 70,000 ship fleet within five years - just the kind of force that would be needed to have any chance of defeating the 30,000 ships the Dominion was known to have in the latter stages of the war.

Myrddin

Indricotherium wrote: »

war is the only option.

And I'm out

Indricotherium

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

A lot of starfleet seems to be transport or reserch based, consider how many merchant ships are active on todays seas there will always be a demand for starships to ferry everything & everyone around Fed territory without the need for constant expansion.


Our current economic modes are 100% redundant in the Federation era though so you cannot compare.

My point exactly!! how does the Federation work!?!?!?!?

Can their whole economy be based on some massive cyclical labour / production system? The Federation is always touted as pushing peoples fulfilment and citizens contributing to society etc etc. What you're describing sounds like a system of make work on a grand scale..... not very fulfilling.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Plenty of firefighting left to do all over the place, a devastated Cardasia to deal with, an utterly devastated Romulan Empire to prop up after the events of the new ST film - the initial cause of the timeline shift is still in effect in the prime universe (ie the destruction of the Romulan home system)

Great point.

Will the federation have learned? They never capitalised on the destrution of Praxis.

Daith

Indricotherium wrote: »

My point exactly!! how does the Federation work!?!?!?!?

It doesn't as shown in Encounter at Farpoint when Crusher buys something and gets it charged to her account.

The Federation only seems to work as long as you stay in the Federation!

nyarlothothep

I think your conception of the Federation is spot on and perfect for a new tv show, the Federation as seen from the perspective of its disenfranchised, as an oppressive, species centric force, totally corrupt and totalitarian under the auspices of Section 31. The show could be about a resistance movement to the Federation, it could literally be an allegory for imperialism and the characters trying to uncover/expose Section 31 atrocities/crimes. It would really turn everything on its head. They could even team up with the borg and this time, the borg could be reinvented a bit and made into something a lot more menacing. There would be no good or evil sides, just this struggle for liberation but the would be liberators wouldn't be all too noble themselves. Definitely there could be fun poked at the Fed's cultural snobbery regarding classical music, fine art etc. The myth of equality could be exposed in the show, the upper command of Starfleet might be privileged but what about the ordinary joe soap, maybe it's not all that good for them, hence why everyone wants to join Starfleet for a better life, almost like joining the KGB/military in the Soviet Union.

The_Valeyard

There was a series of books released about this very topic. Basically the federation knows hunger and strife for the first time and the situation is desperate.

On mobile but will try find link later


Edit: I *think* the books are actually based on a Borg invasion after the dominion war, which completely wrecks whats left of the alpha quadrant powers? (ST: Destiny, Typhon Pact)

Indricotherium

The_Valeyard wrote: »

There was a series of books released about this very topic. Basically the federation knows hunger and strife for the first time and the situation is desperate.

On mobile but will try find link later


Edit: I *think* the books are actually based on a Borg invasion after the dominion war, which completely wrecks whats left of the alpha quadrant powers? (ST: Destiny, Typhon Pact)

Starfleets genocide of the borg by future tech bio-wmd is canon. They won't be invading.

I don't think hunger, or lack of resources is going to be the train coming down the tracks for Federation.

At the end of Voyager, the federations entire labour and goods economy, is generated at zero cost, other than energy, which the Federation seems to have in plentiful abundance.

.....The Federation economy is, as far as I can see based on pouring this massive over production, caused by all 900 billion citizens achieving fulfilment and contributing to he improvement of society, and countless billions of slaves deemed sub-sentient, into constant expansion.

The Federation has 4 members at the end of ENT, this appears to have grown to around 32 members by TOS, by TNG the number oft quoted is 150. By the end of VOY/DS9, a mere 10 years, 180......accelerating growth.....

Their only peer empire, the Romulans have been devastated, by the destruction of their capital. Anything I've seen of the Romulans, leads me to believe that they have a very strict hierarchical government and society. That suggests to me that most of the elite of every walk of life in roman society would have been based on the two Romulan home-worlds.

The real train coming down the tracks as far as I can see is that with all of Cardassia to govern, as well what they will surely conquer in the gamma quadrant the Federation will surely become too large to manage. Even with a ruthlessly efficient secret police, sooner or later one of the officers coups, or schisms within the Star Fleet that regularly plague the Federation, will surely take hold?

How will the government on Earth put down a revolution in the gamma quadrant?

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I think your conception of the Federation is spot on and perfect for a new tv show, the Federation as seen from the perspective of its disenfranchised, as an oppressive, species centric force, totally corrupt and totalitarian under the auspices of Section 31. The show could be about a resistance movement to the Federation, it could literally be an allegory for imperialism and the characters trying to uncover/expose Section 31 atrocities/crimes. It would really turn everything on its head. They could even team up with the borg and this time, the borg could be reinvented a bit and made into something a lot more menacing. There would be no good or evil sides, just this struggle for liberation but the would be liberators wouldn't be all too noble themselves. Definitely there could be fun poked at the Fed's cultural snobbery regarding classical music, fine art etc. The myth of equality could be exposed in the show, the upper command of Starfleet might be privileged but what about the ordinary joe soap, maybe it's not all that good for them, hence why everyone wants to join Starfleet for a better life, almost like joining the KGB/military in the Soviet Union.

Almost every character we see looking in on the Federation from the outside has a completely different interpretation of it to that of the privileged elite the series follow around.

Star Fleet, the Federations Military, dominates almost every walk of life we see in the series. Medicine, research, politics.... What kind of society is this.

Startrek series are almost exclusively shown from the point of view of high ranking military officers.

Imagine all you knew about the United States was following an army general around. Or take it a step further, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Germany in 1940.... You'd think they were all fantastic places to live.

There are 176 episodes of DS9 and 178 episodes of TNG, of which only a handful I can think of features any meaningful information about what it is like to live in the Federation as anything other than an officer in the Star-fleet. That's only a tiny window to look through and try to guess what life in the federation is like for joe Soap.

Vash?

Joeseph Sisko?

The Bashirs?

Noonian Soong?

DMZ colonists?

None of these are as bought into the "federation paradise" ethos as the elite we normally see.

Cookie_Monster

Indricotherium wrote: »

Star Fleet, the Federations Military, dominates almost every walk of life we see in the series. Medicine, research, politics.... What kind of society is this.

star fleet is not a military and this is clear stated plenty of times. Ar worst you could call them peacekeepers.

Startrek series are almost exclusively shown from the point of view of high ranking military officers.

not at all. Star Fleet are mmore like the US coastgaurd than the military

Indricotherium wrote: »

There are 176 episodes of DS9 and 178 episodes of TNG, of which only a handful I can think of features any meaningful information about what it is like to live in the Federation as anything other than an officer in the Star-fleet. That's only a tiny window to look through and try to guess what life in the federation is like for joe Soap.

Vash?

Joeseph Sisko?

The Bashirs?

Noonian Soong?

DMZ colonists?

None of these are as bought into the "federation paradise" ethos as the elite we normally see.

really....

The whole of DS9 is a civilian station that starfleet control. DS9 shows a huge amount of civilian life

Indricotherium

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

star fleet is not a military and this is clear stated plenty of times. Ar worst you could call them peacekeepers.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

not at all. Star Fleet are mmore like the US coastgaurd than the military


really....

I will admit, that I am not au fait with the role of the coast guard .... border patrol?.... Customs enforcement?.... Search and rescue?...

Does Starfleet do all these things?, yes of course. However, Starfleet is involved deeply in every facet of life in the Federation; manufacturing, politics, economics, justice, trade, research...... I don't think the Coast guard has this level of pervasive intrusion into every walk of life in the US.

Starfleet also, regularly, involves itself in pan galactic conflicts with the fate of the galaxy in the balance.

I've not known the US coast guard to involve themselves in a front line, primary role in pan global conflicts with the outcome effecting the entire world.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The whole of DS9 is a civilian station that starfleet control. DS9 shows a huge amount of civilian life

Very few of whom are Federation citizens.

DS9 is shown almost exclusively from the point of view of the Star Fleet elite running the station.

The occasional episodes you get from non Federation points of view, provide very Critical points of view.

Kira, Garak, Quark, Odo, none of them are cheer leaders for the Federation.

IvySlayer

I wonder what the fleet size was during TNG.

Wolf 359s fleet seemed to be Nebula/Ambassador/Excelsior class ships. We know Starfleet then started designing Defiants/Sovereigns classes and probably started producing more ships to fight the Borg.

Those 39 ships were a huge loss in TNG terms, even a year or so later Starfleet could barely get a fleet together to protect the border for the Klingon Civil War

Cookie_Monster

IvySlayer wrote: »

Those 39 ships were a huge loss in TNG terms,

no, they weren't really and even Admiral Shelby stated this in the episode, off hand remark about having them replaced within the year.

see my earlier post with links to flett data thoughs

IvySlayer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, they weren't really and even Admiral Shelby stated this in the episode, off hand remark about having them replaced within the year.

see my earlier post with links to flett data thoughs

Yes Admiral Shelby :pac:

'We'll have the fleet back up in less than a year'

THE fleet

Whether it was one fleet or the entire fleet who knows, after that production of ships and the fleet size increased due to the Borg/Dominion threat

Indricotherium

IvySlayer wrote: »

Yes Admiral Shelby :pac:

'We'll have the fleet back up in less than a year'

THE fleet

Whether it was one fleet or the entire fleet who knows, after that production of ships and the fleet size increased due to the Borg/Dominion threat

YES

Given that we've see throughout TnG and Voyager, that the Borg are easily defeatable, and no match single Starfleet vessels, Wolf 359, is starting to seem more and more like a false flag, to make the overt militarisation and massive increase in size, of the starfleet more palatable politically.

User45701

Regarding Wolf 359...
Yes Shelby does say it will be 1 year to get the fleet back together. Its worth pointing out that @359 the federation had several days notice of a borg ship to assemble that fleet. During Endgame they had no notice but a significant Federation fleet was assembled in minutes

This is probably because as pointed out The Federation has become much more militarised because of the Dominion war, Considering that some federation ships have crews of over a thousand people and that 20-30 ships where at the site of the Borg transwarp aperture within minutes of it opening in Endgame that to me means that the federation has on standby in Sol starships with a combined crew of over 20 thousand military personal armed and ready. (i assume after the Breen attack on earth the federation resolved to never let that happen again)

Regarding the discussion of Federation Size and travel time the best way to envision it is the old reliable first contact measurement 8000 light years, in addition to that the line in DS9's valiant where they discuss the mission to circumnavigate the entire federation -( over a year if i recall ? )

The_Valeyard

There's definitely a story to be made there.


The attack on Starfleet headquarters by the Breen, could be their equivalent to the burning of the Reichstag.

Resulting in a paranoid and militarized Starfleet determined to seek out and remove all threats foreign and domestic.

Daith

The_Valeyard wrote: »

There's definitely a story to be made there.


The attack on Starfleet headquarters by the Breen, could be their equivalent to the burning of the Reichstag.

Resulting in a paranoid and militarized Starfleet determined to seek out and remove all threats foreign and domestic.

Wasn't that dealt with in Homefront and Paradise Lost though?

The_Valeyard

Daith wrote: »

Wasn't that dealt with in Homefront and Paradise Lost though?

To a small extent, but the attack on Starfleet HQ occured after the attempt to seize power by Admiral Leyton.

Rawr

IvySlayer wrote: »

I wonder what the fleet size was during TNG.

Wolf 359s fleet seemed to be Nebula/Ambassador/Excelsior class ships. We know Starfleet then started designing Defiants/Sovereigns classes and probably started producing more ships to fight the Borg.

Those 39 ships were a huge loss in TNG terms, even a year or so later Starfleet could barely get a fleet together to protect the border for the Klingon Civil War

I've always kind of guessed that given the size of the Federation, Starfleet had various different sectional fleets. I kind of imagined a Core Fleet hanging around the original Federation worlds (thus the Wolf 359 fleet), and then a fleet for each of the Federation's frontiers.

So I'm imagining 50-60 vessels per fleet, and maybe 6 (or more) fleets in total.

Part of the reason I'm guessing that TNG Starfleet had more than 40-50 ships is down to what we see in the battle scenes during the Dominion War.



There are a lot of Galaxy class ships, which could have likely been build after Wolf 359, but there are also a lot of Excelsior and Miranda class ships. Those guys wouldn't have been new, and might suggest a much larger fleet of legacy vessels.

All guesswork though

Myrddin

Rawr wrote: »

and might suggest a much larger fleet of legacy vessels.

All guesswork though

I think it's a fair assumption to make, especially given the fight the Lakota (Excelsior class) put up to the Defiant. Those old legacy class ships still pack a punch once brought up to date, & save the hassle of construction new vessels from scratch.

helimachoptor

for a war effort, you can create a bulk ship that fills out the fleet numbers thats a good all rounder

lets say a fleet has 70 ships, how would you realistically make it up?

5 galaxy
10 excelsior
15 Miranda
40 defiants

IvySlayer

Galaxys can do any and everything. They are the backbone of the fleet. Imagine how many ground troops and fighter shuttles you could fit on one. Not only in the support category they can pack a punch too. In Sacrifice of Angels the Galaxy Wings were the ones who engaged the enemy destroyers while the Defiant/Mirandas were trying to break through.

50 Galaxy class
20 Defiants

You don't need any other ships. The Defiants can charge the enemy fleet and turn back to the Galaxys whenever they need them. Defiant batters their shields with quantam torpedos, Defiant maneuvers back to the safety of the Galaxy fleet. Galaxy fleet fires their phasers/photons and starts beaming troops on the enemy.

helimachoptor

IvySlayer wrote: »

Galaxys can do any and everything. They are the backbone of the fleet. Imagine how many ground troops and fighter shuttles you could fit on one. Not only in the support category they can pack a punch too. In Sacrifice of Angels the Galaxy Wings were the ones who engaged the enemy destroyers while the Defiant/Mirandas were trying to break through.

50 Galaxy class
20 Defiants

You don't need any other ships. The Defiants can charge the enemy fleet and turn back to the Galaxys whenever they need them. Defiant batters their shields with quantam torpedos, Defiant maneuvers back to the safety of the Galaxy fleet. Galaxy fleet fires their phasers/photons and starts beaming troops on the enemy.

I'm assuming there's a high resource cost of the Galaxys, otherwise they'd be rolling them out of the shipyards, the Defiant was built to be a tough workhorse, easy and quick to build but packs a punch.

Galaxys are also big targets, not that easy to manoeuvre so while they dish out a lot of punishment they will take a lot and as see can be seen with the Odyssey a big ass target can be taken out by non conventional means (obviously a defiant can aswell)

I definitely agree, for planetary operations, Galaxy wins hands down purely on the amount of boots on the ground it can supply

KingBrian2

IvySlayer wrote: »

Galaxys can do any and everything. They are the backbone of the fleet. Imagine how many ground troops and fighter shuttles you could fit on one. Not only in the support category they can pack a punch too. In Sacrifice of Angels the Galaxy Wings were the ones who engaged the enemy destroyers while the Defiant/Mirandas were trying to break through.

50 Galaxy class
20 Defiants

You don't need any other ships. The Defiants can charge the enemy fleet and turn back to the Galaxys whenever they need them. Defiant batters their shields with quantam torpedos, Defiant maneuvers back to the safety of the Galaxy fleet. Galaxy fleet fires their phasers/photons and starts beaming troops on the enemy.

I'd imagine there was a diverse range of Star Fleet classifications taking part in the war effort from medic ships to old style ships refitted. As the war wore on the vessels became more and more impressive.

IvySlayer

The Odyssey took a hell of a pounding before she was rammed. In my opinion a Galaxy class would beat a Defiant class one on one. Galaxy class can also seperate its saucer from the main drive.