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World Matchplay 2015

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    #152
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    You said the youth championship could be won with an 80 average, an 80 average did not win it the two years Michael was in it. Just stating Bristow won 2 with an 80 average so are you going to say he was no good?
    Michael IS the second most successful player ever, that is a fact an cannot be disputed! He has 9 majors! Wade has 8 (7 technically) How can you say Barney is more successful??

    Look over the previous darts threads and you will see that Phil Taylor is my favourite player, I would be shouting for Phil in any game against MvG so don't use the fanboy rubbish.

    I just meant it's not a top class standard. I hadn't looked up the exact figures.

    Barney has 5 world titles, which is what players are measured on. 4 more PDC majors and at least 10 BDO majors.

    Bristow has 5 world titles and 5 World Masters titles, the second biggest tournament in those days when not to mention there were fcuk all tournaments.

    Both of those are unquestionably more successful than Van Gerwen.


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    #153
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    mdwexford wrote:
    Barney has 5 world titles, which is what players are measured on. 4 more PDC majors and at least 10 BDO majors.


    Ah come off it! You can not use BDO titles after the split to back up that argument. Barney has 4 PDC majors. 6 if you include Premier league and the GrandSlam.


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    #154
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    You called my claim ridiculous, yet you are using BDO world titles as a gauge.
    With your logic, Ted Hanky and Martin Adams are more successful than say Gary Anderson. Or Steve Beaton more successful than Dave Chisnal even tho Chizzy has won nothing, he is a more successful player


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    #155
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    You called my claim ridiculous, yet you are using BDO world titles as a gauge.
    With your logic, Ted Hanky and Martin Adams are more successful than say Gary Anderson. Or Steve Beaton more successful than Dave Chisnal even tho Chizzy has won nothing, he is a more successful player

    Lol success means winning things.

    Not being a better player.


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    #156
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    mdwexford wrote:
    Lol success means winning things.

    mdwexford wrote:
    Not being a better player.


    Success is reaching the top of your game too! Not winning some second rate trophy.

    Are Barnet FC more successful than Tottenham Hotspur?

    You know the answer, you're not this tick


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    #157
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    So would you say Steve Beaton is more successful than Dave Chisnal?


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    #158
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    So would you say Steve Beaton is more successful than Dave Chisnal?

    You do realize Steve Beaton is a former World Champion.

    Of course he's more successful.


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    #159
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Obviously I realise it thats why I said him!
    World Champion in a second rate organisation! I would say getting in to the top 8 of the PDC is more successful. No point talking to you anymore as you are just picking on stupid little technicalities.


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    #160
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Obviously I realise it thats why I said him!
    World Champion in a second rate organisation! I would say getting in to the top 8 of the PDC is more successful. No point talking to you anymore as you are just picking on stupid little technicalities.

    In 1996 there wasn't much difference between them bar Taylor and maybe Priestly.

    Being a world champion is obviously better than being a top 8 player. Little technicality my arse, don't be ridiculous.


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    #161
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    mdwexford wrote:
    In 1996 there wasn't much difference between them bar Taylor and maybe Priestly.


    Surley you are just trolling me here or have you really no clue at all? All of the top 16 players left the BDO 2 years previous. 21 players left the BDO between 94 and 96. If you set out to be a professional I'm sure you would consider getting in to the top of the PDC rather than winning a BDO tittle a success.


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    #162
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Surley you are just trolling me here or have you really no clue at all? All of the top 16 players left the BDO 2 years previous. 21 players left the BDO between 94 and 96. If you set out to be a professional I'm sure you would consider getting in to the top of the PDC rather than winning a BDO tittle a success.

    Go check out the averages maybe.

    I was actually watching darts back then.
    The standard difference wasn't the way it was now, players in both organisations were capable of 90-95 averages on a good day. The PDC didn't have 20 people averaging 100+.

    He won a world championship when both were on a reasonably similar level. Chizzy has never won a tv tournament. At least compare like for like.


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    #163
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,250 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    Lads I think you are confusing two different things, who is more successful and who is the better player. Both of those are different. Steve Beaten is more successful than Chisnall but Chisnall is the better player. It is possible for someone to be a better player than another without having as many trophies in the cabinet.


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    #164
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Kingp35 wrote:
    Lads I think you are confusing two different things, who is more successful and who is the better player. Both of those are different. Steve Beaten is more successful than Chisnall but Chisnall is the better player. It is possible for someone to be a better player than another without having as many trophies in the cabinet.


    This is exactly the point I am trying to make. MvG doesn't need to win as much as Taylor to prove he is a better player. I'm done with this anyway as it's just opinions.


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    #165
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    But I would say Chizzy had a more successful career. Reached the top of his game, made more money. Beaton won a second rate trophy 20 years ago and did nothing else


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    #166
    Tiger Mcilroy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭Tiger Mcilroy


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    But I would say Chizzy had a more successful career. Reached the top of his game, made more money. Beaton won a second rate trophy 20 years ago and did nothing else

    Your completely ignoring the context and comaprative level of competition to try and win this argument.

    20 years ago there was half the competitions and knowhere near the money available to be picked up on the circuit so logic dictates that chizzy as an above average pro is making more money than beaton.

    How has chizzy reached the top of his game?..he has won nothing.


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    #167
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Tiger Mcilroy wrote:
    How has chizzy reached the top of his game?..he has won nothing.


    He's the 7th best player on the planet. Surley this can be considered successful and the top of the game? Saying steve beaton is more successful may be correct technically but its ridiculous. As I said, another football analogy, would you say Barnet FC are more successful than Tottenham Hotspur because they have more trophies?


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    #168
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Barnet FC may not have many trophies, just an example.


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    #169
    Tiger Mcilroy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭Tiger Mcilroy


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    He's the 7th best player on the planet. Surley this can be considered successful and the top of the game? Saying steve beaton is more successful may be correct technically but its ridiculous. As I said, another football analogy, would you say Barnet FC are more successful than Tottenham Hotspur because they have more trophies?

    To be fair a few posters have tried to explain it to you, you're clearly backed into a corner and don't want to concede some of your points are mad.

    You are ignoring so many factors on one hand to when talking about MVG but then applying them in other places to suit your stance.


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    #170
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Tiger Mcilroy wrote:
    To be fair a few posters have tried to explain it to you, you're clearly backed into a corner and don't want to concede some of your points are mad.

    Tiger Mcilroy wrote:
    You are ignoring so many factors on one hand to when talking about MVG but then applying them in other places to suit your stance.


    Explain which points are mad?

    And show me where I I have ignored factors and then applied them to suit my argument?

    I think MvG is a better player than Phil Taylor although he may not win as much.

    I think Chisnal is more successful than Beaton because he is in the top of the game, constantly going deep into tournaments. All beaton did was win a tournament after the top 16 players left said tournament.

    If I win a tournament down the pub the weekend am I more successful than Dave Chisnal? Technically yes, but common sense says no.


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    #171
    Tiger Mcilroy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭Tiger Mcilroy


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Explain which points are mad?

    And show me where I I have ignored factors and then applied them to suit my argument?

    I think MvG is a better player than Phil Taylor although he may not win as much.

    I think Chisnal is more successful than Beaton because he is in the top of the game, constantly going deep into tournaments. All beaton did was win a tournament after the top 16 players left said tournament.

    If I win a tournament down the pub the weekend am I more successful than Dave Chisnal? Technically yes, but common sense says no.

    Just one example then - you use MVG winning the World masters in 2006 (BDO event) as a positive but even though which was against a much inferior field to Beatons 1993 world masters and 1996 championship win but it suddenly becomes a second rate organisation.

    Your picking and choosing to suit your argument and to be honest talking rubbish.


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    #172
    paulie21
    Registered Users Posts: 17,807 ✭✭✭✭paulie21


    Look at it another way. Beaton won a second rate world title I'd agree on that but Chisnall was in the BDO for a number of years and couldn't win it


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    #173
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Tiger Mcilroy wrote:
    Your picking and choosing to suit your argument and to be honest talking rubbish.


    And your ignoring the good points I am making for the sake of disagreeing with me!

    Am I more successful than Dave if I win a tournament in the pub?

    You dont have to win anything to be successful although obviously you would be more successful if you did win stuff.

    Michael won that tournament as a 16 year old child with a 90+ tournament average, beating seasoned pros along the way. If that was all he ever won and never really progressed then I would not be saying he is more successful than a top 10 PDC player with no trophies!


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    #174
    Devastator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,480 ✭✭✭Devastator


    ffs lads has nobody ever disagreed with your opinions before?


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    #175
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    Devastator wrote:
    ffs lads has nobody ever disagreed with your opinions before?


    Yes. It's nice to debate things and see why people don't share that opinion, and to try explain why I have said opinion.


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    #176
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    There's no single answer, its about opinions but the lads accusing me of making stuff up and calling it the most ridiculous thing they've ever seen is a bit harsh.


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    #177
    crasy dash
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭crasy dash


    @ comfort kid please check your messages just pm you one there;)


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    #178
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    crasy dash wrote:
    @ comfort kid please check your messages just pm you one there


    Got that crazy, Cheers! :-)


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    #179
    Tiger Mcilroy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭Tiger Mcilroy


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    There's no single answer, its about opinions but the lads accusing me of making stuff up and calling it the most ridiculous thing they've ever seen is a bit harsh.

    I never accused you of making stuff up in fairness its just a bit rich to use bdo tournaments to put MVG up on a pedestal in one post then in another you dont rate another players accomplishments because it was a "second rate organisation".

    To be honest i think there is a simple answer and in my opinion its that MVG's accomplishments over the last 3 years are impressive and thats all we have to go on and he is not nor will he match the level of consistency and accomplishments of taylor over the next 20+ years.


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    #180
    Firewalkwithme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭Firewalkwithme


    You're gonna have to wrap this one up soon lads, I'm running out of popcorn here :)


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    #181
    Devastator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,480 ✭✭✭Devastator


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    Yes. It's nice to debate things and see why people don't share that opinion, and to try explain why I have said opinion.


    It didn't read like much of a debate to me which is why I commented above.

    For me, if someone disagrees with my opinion my general attitude is "F*** 'em, I know better than them anyway" :D


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