Herd of cattle stolen- IFA €10,000 REWARD

Good loser

All the double decker trucks in the State and NI should be checked out.

Base price

Good loser wrote: »

All the double decker trucks in the State and NI should be checked out.

I presume the Garda/PSNI are already doing that.

Reggie.

Base price wrote: »

From what I understand (stand corrected) unless the perpetrators of a crime are made aware that CCTV is in place with the appropriate sinage/warning/vocal warning then it cannot be used against them in court.
However if I was to catch these fellas in the act of stealing our or my neighbours cattle, I understand that lawfully I have to verbally warn them that I intend to protect my livestock and at the same time phone the local Garda Station.

That's it exactly. Something to do with you cannot record them without thier knowledge as it is against some personnel rights. I don't think that it's in yet and that it may just be for persons and not vehicles tho

sasta le

Is the blackmarket meat trade happening alot in Ireland?

masculinist

Unbelieveable. I'm imagining trucks of gold bullion and Jeremy Irons' East German villain straight out of a Die Hard movie - a lot of work for 100k unless they believed they had a negligible chance of getting caught. In order to have a negligible chance of getting caught in the execution of a crime, any crime , thieves need some strong trustworthy insider information or someone on the inside. Anyone who usually visits the cattle could have been under constant surveillance to ensure they were not going to check on the cattle etc. How much time would it take to cut the lock and load up all those cattle ? Then how long did it take until the crime was discovered ? That time period is crucial because large lorries will not be able to go all that fast.
I thought all herds were trackable with electronic tags , for example the sheep roaming around the Dublin and Kerry mountains. I guess I was wrong ?

whelan2

masculinist wrote: »

Unbelieveable. I'm imagining trucks of gold bullion and Jeremy Irons' East German villain straight out of a Die Hard movie - a lot of work for 100k unless they believed they had a negligible chance of getting caught. In order to have a negligible chance of getting caught in the execution of a crime, any crime , thieves need some strong trustworthy insider information or someone on the inside. Anyone who usually visits the cattle could have been under constant surveillance to ensure they were not going to check on the cattle etc. How much time would it take to cut the lock and load up all those cattle ? Then how long did it take until the crime was discovered ? That time period is crucial because large lorries will not be able to go all that fast.
I thought all herds were trackable with electronic tags , for example the sheep roaming around the Dublin and Kerry mountains. I guess I was wrong ?

i am assuming the tags where the first thing to be removed from these animals

Jimlh86

Reggie. wrote: »

That's it exactly. Something to do with you cannot record them without thier knowledge as it is against some personnel rights. I don't think that it's in yet and that it may just be for persons and not vehicles tho

Lads you don't have to verbally or otherwise warn anybody you have CCTV provided it's only covers your property. The only. Purpose those signs have is to act as a deterrent (which they don't lads just cover up) or in shops/businesses where they also catch the street.

Reggie.

Jimlh86 wrote: »

Lads you don't have to verbally or otherwise warn anybody you have CCTV provided it's only covers your property. The only. Purpose those signs have is to act as a deterrent (which they don't lads just cover up) or in shops/businesses where they also catch the street.

You might in the future as we are waiting for confirmation from the legal system as you have to have permission to record someone. Just go to any school play or the likes and you'll see them looking for your permission to record it.

Someone must have challenged Cctv on the same rights so it's currently going through the legal system at the min. Be interesting what comes out of it. You should be covered once signs are up but ya know what this country is like

_Brian

foxy farmer wrote: »

Could be a clandestine slaughter outfit. Hide the animals slaughter them and sell the meat on the black market. PSNI caught a crowd at it in the north recently. Butchering in the back of a lorry in one case.
Replacement tags can be got within 24 hours once the cards are on your profile
Could a factory handle a few animals after hours when staff have gone home?

But not all animals here will go to slaughter.
Calves will be registered as twins in some herds.
Some of the cows will no doubt go to replace cows that have died and buried rather than gone to knacker. And then some will go to slaughter.

It just takes a few unscrupulous farmers to be involved and these cattle can easily be absorbed into herds.

Jimlh86

Reggie. wrote: »

You might in the future as we are waiting for confirmation from the legal system as you have to have permission to record someone. Just go to any school play or the likes and you'll see them looking for your permission to record it.

Someone must have challenged Cctv on the same rights so it's currently going through the legal system at the min. Be interesting what comes out of it. You should be covered once signs are up but ya know what this country is like

You're right Reggie but schools etc are governed by different laws than your land or private residence. A school for instance has to prove that survelliance cameras are justified because most of he time it will only be recording children and employees. Say a shop for instance can have as many CCTV cameras as they want provided it's not seen to be constantly "spying" on staff, and they can show it's to protect their stock.

blue5000

What could we do to prevent it happening to us? I think a lot of us have a crush and pen on out farms, these could be a liability in future.

Reggie.

Jimlh86 wrote: »

You're right Reggie but schools etc are governed by different laws than your land or private residence. A school for instance has to prove that survelliance cameras are justified because most of he time it will only be recording children and employees. Say a shop for instance can have as many CCTV cameras as they want provided it's not seen to be constantly "spying" on staff, and they can show it's to protect their stock.

Yes as the law stands but what I'm saying is that it's being challenged in the courts at the minute and if it's upheld then the laws will be changed in the future

Jimlh86

Reggie. wrote: »

Yes as the law stands but what I'm saying is that it's being challenged in the courts at the minute and if it's upheld then the laws will be changed in the future

For public places perhaps but I can't see how they could prohibit people from placing CCTV to cover their own property? But as you said this is Ireland! On another note this is a massive amount of stock to steal and process, surely some decent person with a conscience knows something!

foxy farmer

_Brian wrote: »

But not all animals here will go to slaughter.
Calves will be registered as twins in some herds.
Some of the cows will no doubt go to replace cows that have died and buried rather than gone to knacker. And then some will go to slaughter.

It just takes a few unscrupulous farmers to be involved and these cattle can easily be absorbed into herds.

Slaughter might be unlikely but possible. Only for Dept presence in factories the factories would kill anything.
DNA Sampling and a database would sort the tagging of bogus animals. Could be a nightmare to implement though.

greysides

foxy farmer wrote: »

DNA Sampling and a database would sort the tagging of bogus animals. Could be a nightmare to implement though.

Not really, I imagine the machinery is virtually already in place...... think BVD sampling.

foxy farmer

greysides wrote: »

Not really, I imagine the machinery is virtually already in place...... think BVD sampling.

Fair point but think of all the arguing by certain parties if those samples were used for DNA Sampling without proper debate and discussion. Could be challenged in the courts like the cctv issue.

Farmer

greysides wrote: »

Not really, I imagine the machinery is virtually already in place...... think BVD sampling.

Probably too expensive yet, think beef genomics program, €30 a head multiplied by size of national herd, repeated again at point of slaughter. We do enough giving out about existing stoppages without another €30 euro.

Injectable chip implant delivered with tags and double checked by vet at test time and at slaughter might be a cheaper option but, I suppose they'd figure out how to swap these.

blue5000

Farmer wrote: »

Probably too expensive yet, think beef genomics program, €30 a head multiplied by size of national herd, repeated again at point of slaughter. We do enough giving out about existing stoppages without another €30 euro.

Injectable chip implant delivered with tags and double checked by vet at test time and at slaughter might be a cheaper option but, I suppose they'd figure out how to swap these.

Just because we are being charged 30, doesn't mean that it actually costs 30:(

Farmer

blue5000 wrote: »

Just because we are being charged 30, doesn't mean that it actually costs 30:(

You're right about that but, as we'd ultimately be paying, it would still probably be €30

djmc

_Brian wrote: »

But not all animals here will go to slaughter.
Calves will be registered as twins in some herds.
Some of the cows will no doubt go to replace cows that have died and buried rather than gone to knacker. And then some will go to slaughter.

It just takes a few unscrupulous farmers to be involved and these cattle can easily be absorbed into herds.

It would have to be more than a few
If an average farm had 5 dead fully grown cattle die in a year between tb annual test it would be a lot.
Animals would have to be not recorded dead and card held and numbers held for stolen animals. So at least 30 farmers would need to be involved which I think is unlikely that many could work together.
An unscrupulous vet doing bogus tests could do a lot of damage though.
I think this is more than likely done by an organised criminal gang with help or knowledge of how farming and department of ag works.
Export of animals might be possible if they could get paperwork.

Farmer

I can't figure the haulier bit, why would someone risk it (unless he's behind it) as he's the most likely to be traced. Otherwise it's hard to believe that he's innocently involved at this point

whelan2

Farmer wrote: »

I can't figure the haulier bit, why would someone risk it (unless he's behind it) as he's the most likely to be traced. Otherwise it's hard to believe that he's innocently involved at this point

assume if he was innocent he would have come forward by now, would a lorry and drag hold that amount of stock?

keep going

So theres 9 calves that have to be re identified, alot for one herd plus the cows may or may not stay together.add in 40 yearlings which would probaly not be slaughtered to be re identified whereas the 2 yearolds could be slaughtered but that leaves you finding a home for 6 or 7 ton of meat.the sheer scale here is so suspicious, if they do have set up that can handle this volume of stuff there is a large organisation involved could be a d8zen people involved or more which in my view most criminal s would balk at as it increases risk.the whole thing strikes me as just too risky for the return involved but we will wait ans see

mf240

The calves could be registered to empty stripper cows .

My money is on the whole lot being slauthered and sold as meat.

mf240

Just thinking whats the chances these guys were armed.

If you were unlucky enough to be targeted by them and happened to discover them . What would be your best move..

Cattlepen

I really think people are getting carried away with conspiracy theories here. This whole thing might not be as it seems. Give it time and I'll bet this won't be rustling as we know it. It simply doesn't happen on this scale. There isn't a crime gang this side of Sicily could pull it off

ComfortKid

Cattlepen wrote:

I really think people are getting carried away with conspiracy theories here. This whole thing might not be as it seems. Give it time and I'll bet this won't be rustling as we know it. It simply doesn't happen on this scale. There isn't a crime gang this side of Sicily could pull it off

What's the conspiracy?

And the cattle are gone so obviously someone pulled it off!

djmc

Is it happening more around border county's
Would the boys that were at the diesel be getting
a new source of revenue just taking a guess on the level of organisation involved

Jimlh86

Cattlepen wrote: »

I really think people are getting carried away with conspiracy theories here. This whole thing might not be as it seems. Give it time and I'll bet this won't be rustling as we know it. It simply doesn't happen on this scale. There isn't a crime gang this side of Sicily could pull it off

Was chatting to a neighbour earlier, he reckons theirs more to it than meets the eye. He reckons that's too many cattle to take in one go and then get rid of? He thinks that whoever took them had to know the area and probably the stick too to be able to handle them

masculinist

ComfortKid wrote: »

What's the conspiracy?

And the cattle are gone so obviously someone pulled it off!

I can think of a half dozen ideas for a conspiracy but is it wise to discuss this case while its under investigation ?