Boundary Extension for City?

Aquos76

Some more from the official report

3.5.1 Issues raised by respondents opposed to boundary change
The 8 types of standard format accounted for 18,887 of the 19,131 submissions. They
therefore reflect both the majority of submissions and the most prominent issues or
concerns raised by those opposed to any change in the current boundary. At the same
time, there was a high degree of consensus with regard to the issues raised across the
form types.
In summary, the main points made were:
 The sense of identity and belonging to County Kilkenny which would be lost in the
event of a boundary extension.
 There are clear examples of co-operation between the two Councils and this should
form the model for the future.
 A boundary extension would have significant negative financial implications for
County Kilkenny due to loss of revenue from, for example, commercial rates and
Local Property Tax.
 The movement of population would undermine existing Municipal District
boundaries.
 Coordination and co-operation across the South East can be progressed through
the Regional Assembly while still respecting existing boundaries and sense of
identity.
 Changing the boundary would have a divisive effect on relations between the two
counties.
 Kilkenny County Council has made significant investment within the Area of
Interest in recent years which benefits the region as a whole. It would now lose out
on a return on its investment as a result of boundary change. The investment made
in Belview area was cited as an example.
 Boundary change could impact parish/Diocesan boundaries and the viability of
sporting clubs in the area.
 The loss to County Kilkenny of planned population growth in the Area of Interest
would have a negative impact on the revenue base to fund services and
infrastructure in South Kilkenny.
 That Kilkenny County Council is fully competent to provide efficiently all the
necessary services in the area.
21
 An enhanced co-operative approach between the two Councils for the benefit of
Kilkenny, Waterford and the South East could serve as an alternative to boundary
change.

3.5.2 Issues raised by respondents in favour of boundary change
Among the submissions in favour of a change to the existing boundary, a number of
issues were frequently raised by respondents. In summary, their main points were:
 Kilkenny County Council has never invested properly in the area.
 A Boundary Extension would lead to improved planning in the Area/ there have
been poor planning decision in the past.
 The residents would benefit from the closer proximity to the service provider.
22
 The community in the Area of Interest are marginalised from the rest of the
county and are politically remote.
 A Boundary Extension would improve the quality of service, ensure increased
efficiency and greater value for money.
 The issue of GAA identity should not be allowed to become an issue in decision
making on local authority boundaries.
 There are very close links between Waterford City and the area with many
residents originally from the City and many working or studying in the City.

Jamie2k9

Guess a decision is be based on SF supporting when it's voted.

robtri

azimuth17 wrote: »

I think Robtri is approaching the issue from the wrong end. the real question to be asked is what will a boundary extension do for Waterford city?

no.. what will waterford city do for the area...

cause all waterford city supporters here go on about is GAA crap and saying KK have done nothing for the area,

so what will they do?
what amenities/services will they provide for the residents of the area

strange that no one can answer this


Dublin extends into numerous counties and it works quite well yet no need to change boundaries...

Irishlad2014

Just read the report -very interesting! Overall good news

robtri

from the article...
if thats true its a disgrace

it has been revealed that 19,100 people who made submissions on the issue were against the boundary change while only 35 submissions were in favour.

Jamie2k9

robtri wrote: »

from the article...
if thats true its a disgrace

it has been revealed that 19,100 people who made submissions on the issue were against the boundary change while only 35 submissions were in favour.

It would impact 4,500, go figure who made those 19,000 submissions, would be good how many of those 4,500 made.

Jamie2k9

Waterford N&S tomorrow should have a bit about Mary Butler and her position since the WLRFM interview a few weeks ago.

robtri

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It would impact 4,500, go figure who made those 19,000 submissions, would be good how many of those 4,500 made.

all of KK by the looks of it
but only 35 in favour

Jamie2k9

robtri wrote: »

all of KK by the looks of it
but only 35 in favour

but the point is those 19,000 are irrelevant for the most part, they have done most of the job such as keeping Slieverue. 4,500 is nothing TBH and is there really a big difference to putting Co Waterford on the end of an address as that's all it is.

I'm sure if there was a campaign in Waterford City to get submissions made the outcome would of easily been the other way round so how would you argue that?

Chances are it won't happen because of a vote and FF won't abstain, TBH if they cleared it I couldn't see them losing seats as Kilkenny have never been heavily FG, farmers won't vote SF/LAB so all is left is IND and I don't see it either.

FF are only against purely because of seat numbers, not because they actually give a s*hit about Kilkenny or Waterford.

robtri

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

but the point is those 19,000 are irrelevant for the most part, they have done most of the job such as keeping Slieverue. 4,500 is nothing TBH and is there really a big difference to putting Co Waterford on the end of an address as that's all it is.

I'm sure if there was a campaign in Waterford City to get submissions made the outcome would of easily been the other way round so how would you argue that?

Chances are it won't happen because of a vote and FF won't abstain, TBH if they cleared it I couldn't see them losing seats as Kilkenny have never been heavily FG, farmers won't vote SF/LAB so all is left is IND and I don't see it either.

FF are only against purely because of seat numbers, not because they actually give a s*hit about Kilkenny or Waterford.

this is about what best for the area... either way 19,000 in favour of keeping as is cant be ignored..

but u are right the politicians will ruin it...

Jamie2k9

robtri wrote: »

this is about what best for the area... either way 19,000 in favour of keeping as is cant be ignored..

but u are right the politicians will ruin it...

but when those 19,500 don't live in the area, who are they to say it's best for the area, their opinion is just as valid as the people in charge of the review in that case.

Aquos76

Here are the list of those who put in submissions

Max Powers

I see my name so does this mean some kind of reward, mayoral reception or something.

Max Powers

robtri wrote: »

no.. what will waterford city do for the area...

cause all waterford city supporters here go on about is GAA crap and saying KK have done nothing for the area,

so what will they do?
what amenities/services will they provide for the residents of the area

strange that no one can answer this


Dublin extends into numerous counties and it works quite well yet no need to change boundaries...

If you read some of the submissions, it was against people spouting the gaa rubbish kk virtually ignored the area,for one thing Waterford provides more social housing the area.if funding comes available, that and other investment will continue, Waterford has made progress on north quays and hopes to further develop jobs and development on north side of city.plans to connect better with pedestrian bridge.and also would help prevent silly attempts to undermine the city with massive oversized empty against spatial retail strategy development.the approaches to Waterford would be better maintained if controlled by Waterford,kkcoco should be ashamed the state of roads from motorway to Sally park.if it goes through, people over on north side will be able to access council facilities offices etc a stone throw away instead of mad situation of having to go to kk.the people who consider themselves from Waterford, educated in Waterford, working in Waterford will be able to vote for councillors and issues that directly affects their immediate area.
So just a few things.

Irishlad2014

Also regarding these 19000 submissions against 18.323 were a photocopied letter (seven types). They can be found on the website under forms. The report shows the hotspots from submissions received with the majority coming from Kilkenny City and surrounds and not the area in question.

KevIRL

The Kilkenny People are taking it well

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/234410/huge-concern-in-south-kilkenny-as-waterford-landgrab-is-recommended.html

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/234422/not-an-inch-of-kilkenny-will-become-part-of-waterford-in-act-of-war-aylward.html

BBM77

Max Powers wrote: »

If you read some of the submissions...

Well I tried to read some...:D

robtri

Max Powers wrote: »

If you read some of the submissions, it was against people spouting the gaa rubbish kk virtually ignored the area,for one thing Waterford provides more social housing the area.if funding comes available, that and other investment will continue, Waterford has made progress on north quays and hopes to further develop jobs and development on north side of city.plans to connect better with pedestrian bridge.and also would help prevent silly attempts to undermine the city with massive oversized empty against spatial retail strategy development.the approaches to Waterford would be better maintained if controlled by Waterford,kkcoco should be ashamed the state of roads from motorway to Sally park.if it goes through, people over on north side will be able to access council facilities offices etc a stone throw away instead of mad situation of having to go to kk.the people who consider themselves from Waterford, educated in Waterford, working in Waterford will be able to vote for councillors and issues that directly affects their immediate area.
So just a few things.

again this does not address anything WCC will do for people of the area...

The roads in Ferrybank under WCC control are in a worse state...

retail strategy ... really cause Waterford so have that under control with their booming city centre... ohhhhh wait!!

Agree access services will be easier and madness that people in that area need to go to KK to do things.. mind u I cant remember the last time i needed to go to city hall for anything...everything can be done online or over phone these days.. but I do see the point..

i know plenty of waterford people living in Dublin city... who live there work there, bring up their kids there but if u ask them where they from they proudly say Waterford, why should people of KK be given the same options..

Personally I cant see why the boundary needs to be changed, WCC and KK should be made work together for the good of the area.
as stated before Dublin has sprawled into numerous counties and there is no need to change the boundary and yet it works, works very well ...

Why does Waterford need it? they have plenty of land around the rest of the city... my opinion is that this is all about money and political seats .. anyone believes that WCC will spend the windfall of cash any better that KK have on the area is sadly deluded...

homolumo

Great news

Michael Kavanagh

azimuth17 wrote: »

There are so many errors written in the past few posts that I thought a couple corrections might be helpful.

The Ardree Hotel is half in Waterford city and county Kilkenny , the boundary runs right through it, hence its derelict state was the responsibility of both local authorities. Waterford city council have pursued the owners to remedy the situation and the hotel has been reported as sold in recent weeks.

The postal address of Dawn Meats in Grannagh was not altered for political reasons. The rule has always been that mail is directed to places using the nearest post town or city. Glenmore was always accurately addressed as Glenmore Waterford, Mullinavat Waterford, Kilmacow Waterford. This was a Post Office regulation and nothing else.

I walk the Waterford Greenway regularly and the biggest eyesore is an old factory in Newrath. people over there told me it used to be Gouldings fertilisers.

A lot of the response from obvious Kilkenny posters have failed to accept or are unwilling to accept that the regions that have done best are those with a strong regional city. To get that accepted in Kilkenny is a quite difficult job. The results are visible in the entire regional economy with unemployment still the highest in the land at some 10.5%

Did the owners have to get planning permission then from both councils for building the hotel because it seems to be idle for years. As regards Waterford it wouldn't mean to people in kilkenny that they are part of the same region Waterford don't even exist in a lot of peoples minds.

Michael Kavanagh

robtri wrote: »

no.. what will waterford city do for the area...

cause all waterford city supporters here go on about is GAA crap and saying KK have done nothing for the area,

so what will they do?
what amenities/services will they provide for the residents of the area

strange that no one can answer this


Dublin extends into numerous counties and it works quite well yet no need to change boundaries...

The way it is with Waterford when you have nothing grab the nearest prospect you get your hands on that's worth something.

Michael Kavanagh

azimuth17 wrote: »

The tone of Mr Kavanagh's posts suggests he is mired in a 19th century vision of manufacturing industry as all hammers, soot, shovels and dirt. Apple employ nearly 6500 in Cork in manufacturing and R&D. Genzyme, now Sanofi have invested nearly €600 million and rising in their specialised biotech plant at Old Kilmeaden Road in Waterford. Mr Kavanagh has probably never even seen it.....or the adjacent new WEST Pharma plant. Should Waterford not have competed for these industries? Throwing verbal and written stones at Waterford because you don't like a proposed boundary extension is useful to no one.

You idiot did I mention any of those industries in Waterford

BorneTobyWilde

I don't get it. Why would it ever be right for one county to try steal land off another.

Aquos76

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

You idiot did I mention any of those industries in Waterford

Keep it civil now, I know some people are put out over this report, but at the end of the day, that's all it is, a report. There's absolutely no guarantee that this will even happen.

Deiseen

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

azimuth17 wrote: »

The tone of Mr Kavanagh's posts suggests he is mired in a 19th century vision of manufacturing industry as all hammers, soot, shovels and dirt. Apple employ nearly 6500 in Cork in manufacturing and R&D. Genzyme, now Sanofi have invested nearly €600 million and rising in their specialised biotech plant at Old Kilmeaden Road in Waterford. Mr Kavanagh has probably never even seen it.....or the adjacent new WEST Pharma plant. Should Waterford not have competed for these industries? Throwing verbal and written stones at Waterford because you don't like a proposed boundary extension is useful to no one.

You idiot did I mention any of those industries in Waterford

Did something happen you down in Waterford that you have this attitude? Maybe you didn't get a job in one of the many decent Pharma companies we have here? or maybe you didn't get accepted into the W.I.T?
or possibly some cultured Waterford beauty rejected your brutish advances and smacked you over the head with something hard.

The final one would explain a lot actually, especially for a man coming on here calling people "idiots"...

Suryavarman

robtri wrote: »

The roads in Ferrybank under WCC control are in a worse state...

This is so false it can't be anything other than a lie.

Irishlad2014

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

robtri wrote: »

no.. what will waterford city do for the area...

cause all waterford city supporters here go on about is GAA crap and saying KK have done nothing for the area,

so what will they do?
what amenities/services  will they provide for the residents of the area

strange that no one can answer this


Dublin extends into numerous counties and it works quite well yet no need to change boundaries...

The  way  it  is  with  Waterford  when you  have  nothing  grab  the  nearest  prospect you  get your  hands  on that's  worth  something.

Can you elaborate on this? or is it another 3 sheets to the wind statement that means nothing?

Irishlad2014

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I don't get it. Why would it ever be right for one county to try steal land off another.

You will have to read the report. Its quite interesting reading and makes perfect scene. Hope this helps

road_high

Suryavarman wrote: »

Having a university in WAterford provides a lot more benefit to the region than waiting decades for Carlow to get up to the standard needed for Waterford and Carlow to have a a joint university.

Waterford is the only urban area in the Southeast that is big enough to drive economic growth in the region. Everywhere else is far too small.

You're deluded if you think this. Waterford is still tiny in relative terms, and consistently one of the slowest growing in the SE. It'll never be a driver like say Galway is, it's a bigger Dundalk.
Dublin is the main driver of growth in this region, all the areas nearest there have grown far quicker. All recent census have shown this.

road_high

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

but when those 19,500 don't live in the area, who are they to say it's best for the area, their opinion is just as valid as the people in charge of the review in that case.

Are you from the exact area? Because you seem well able to give your tuppence worth on the matter.