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Taxi rank rules

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    #92
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    "do not enforce the cab rank system". really ?
    What i did say was the first car parked on the rank might not be the first car that is to leave the rank, due to the fact that the Gresham rank is fed both ways ,by cars coming from Nth Fredrick St and the other side coming up from O Connell bridge.
    It's not too difficult to understand

    The point is that drivers are trying to demand people use the first car in a rank, except where they've cooked up some system of their own to suit themselves.

    This isn't the 90s when there weren't enough taxis to to around - drivers are reliant on the customer and this kind of nonsense needs to die


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    #93
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    L1011 wrote: »
    The point is that drivers are trying to demand people use the first car in a rank, except where they've cooked up some system of their own to suit themselves.

    This isn't the 90s when there weren't enough taxis to to around - drivers are reliant on the customer and this kind of nonsense needs to die

    Well no, the point is drivers are not demanding anything , they are telling people what car is first out.
    It is only right and proper (despite what Kathleen Doyle said) that the first car in line is the one next out. It has worked well and still works well.
    If you were standing in line at a bank for 30 mins to be served and someone walked in and went straight to the counter and got served ahead of you, would you be happy with that?

    The kind of "nonsense" you referred you, works perfectly well day in day out, without any problems.
    It seems only keyboard warriors want to create a issue with it.


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    #94
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,436 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    If you were standing in line at a bank for 30 mins to be served and someone walked in and went straight to the counter and got served ahead of you, would you be happy with that?
    you've got the customer and the vendor reversed in this example though, so it doesn't really hold.
    the taxi driver is selling a service, and a customer is perfectly entitled to choose a taxi driver selling a more comfortable service, for the same price.


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    #95
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    Well no, the point is drivers are not demanding anything , they are telling people what car is first out.
    It is only right and proper (despite what Kathleen Doyle said) that the first car in line is the one next out. It has worked well and still works well.
    If you were standing in line at a bank for 30 mins to be served and someone walked in and went straight to the counter and got served ahead of you, would you be happy with that?

    The kind of "nonsense" you referred you, works perfectly well day in day out, without any problems.
    It seems only keyboard warriors want to create a issue with it.
    THat's the problem though, drivers are telling people which taxi to take and they are no longer allowed to do this!

    If you were working in a bank and the tellers were on commission basis only and you had a massive scowl all day then you will get less customers going to your window. if you are the best teller in the bank you will get more customers! It is the same now for taxi drivers!

    Line all the drivers up in their cars and those awful wheelchair vans and let the people decide who they want to drive them around!

    The days of "first out" are long gone, it is now best dressed that gets "out first"!


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    #96
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    THat's the problem though, drivers are telling people which taxi to take and they are no longer allowed to do this!

    If you were working in a bank and the tellers were on commission basis only and you had a massive scowl all day then you will get less customers going to your window. if you are the best teller in the bank you will get more customers! It is the same now for taxi drivers!

    Line all the drivers up in their cars and those awful wheelchair vans and let the people decide who they want to drive them around!

    The days of "first out" are long gone, it is now best dressed that gets "out first"!

    Oh dear, those "awful wheelchair vans" provide a service to people in wheelchairs.
    By the way Can you furnish the proof (2nd time to ask) re those astonishing comments you made earlier on thread.
    I'm quite curious


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    #97
    AlanG
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭AlanG


    The OP had every right to take which car he wants but he was putting the driver in a very awkward position. Ranks only work because the drivers queue. There is no law that states you must take the first car but then again there is no law the says we must wait in line at an ATM or shop. You were asking the driver to skip the queue so it is no different to skipping any other queue.


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    #98
    AlanG
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭AlanG


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    you've got the customer and the vendor reversed in this example though, so it doesn't really hold.
    the taxi driver is selling a service, and a customer is perfectly entitled to choose a taxi driver selling a more comfortable service, for the same price.

    The driver is also using a service - the rank. Just like a customer in the the bank queue there is an etiquette he is expected to adhere to if he is going to use that service.
    If a person skipping the bank queue said it was because their boss told them to skip the queue it would not make it acceptable.


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    #99
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    Oh dear, those "awful wheelchair vans" provide a service to people in wheelchairs.
    By the way Can you furnish the proof (2nd time to ask) re those astonishing comments you made earlier on thread.
    I'm quite curious

    Those wheelchair vans are the worst possible form of transport on the roads as far as ordinary passengers comfort goes! They are the most awkward yoke for anyone with a mobility impairment to get into or out of, even with a step. they require the passenger to move around in the back hunched over to get to the uncomfortable bench seat at the back and are usually freezing cold and noisy as hell.

    I appreciate that wheelchair passengers rely on them but should the taxi industry be populated with nothing but those awful vans and millions of passengers have to be discommoded by the discomfort and noise and draughts as well as the hassle of having to climb into and out of what is effectively nothing more than a builders van with seats, when it would be far more realistic and reasonable to have a quota of accessible vehicles "on the road" in all area at most times?

    A survey of wheelchair use of taxis needs to be done and the number of wheelchair accessible taxis needs to be representative of the numbers using the service.

    As for my comments earlier they related to anecdotal evidence of the stated behaviour by taxi drivers in Dublin city centre and at the airport ranks where certain individuals are seen to have more rights to spaces than other drivers.


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    #100
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    Well no, the point is drivers are not demanding anything , they are telling people what car is first out.
    It is only right and proper (despite what Kathleen Doyle said) that the first car in line is the one next out. It has worked well and still works well.
    If you were standing in line at a bank for 30 mins to be served and someone walked in and went straight to the counter and got served ahead of you, would you be happy with that?

    The kind of "nonsense" you referred you, works perfectly well day in day out, without any problems.
    It seems only keyboard warriors want to create a issue with it.

    I'm the customer in the bank, though. Not the bank. Without customers taxi drivers get no business - even if it seems many don't understand that.

    If drivers are going to enforce archaic rules at ranks, I'll hail the cars I want instead.

    I also think that baaed on the number of complaints, radio show discussions etc that it's quite clear it isn't working well.


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    #101
    Peppa Pig
    Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Peppa Pig


    AlanG wrote: »
    The driver is also using a service - the rank. Just like a customer in the the bank queue there is an etiquette he is expected to adhere to if he is going to use that service.
    If a person skipping the bank queue said it was because their boss told them to skip the queue it would not make it acceptable.
    And a customer in the taxi queue has no right to skip that queue either, using the etiquette.
    If ten people are queuing for a taxi, then the person at the top of the queue gets first choice on the taxi. If he wants car number 3, he is entitled to get it (as you have already said). If there is only one car and he doesn't like the look of it then he must give person 2 in the queue the right to take his taxi.

    If all taxis were the same it would be a non issue. Unfortunately some drivers have less comfortable cars than others, some cars are not as clean as others and some are reeking of cigarette smoke.

    If a taxi guy is driving down dame street and see a dishevelled looking person calling a cab but then before he gets to him a well dressed person ten yards further hails the taxi, the driver has the right to stop for the second person. Should he be forced to take the one he doesn't like the look of as they hailed him first?


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    #102
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,436 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    AlanG wrote: »
    The driver is also using a service - the rank.
    allowing that the driver is using a 'service', he or she is as free to choose that service as a customer is to choose a taxi.
    there's nothing forcing a taxi driver to choose taxi rank A over taxi rank B to ply their trade in. the driver will choose based on what suits their purposes best, just as the customer will.


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    #103
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Those wheelchair vans are the worst possible form of transport on the roads as far as ordinary passengers comfort goes! They are the most awkward yoke for anyone with a mobility impairment to get into or out of, even with a step. they require the passenger to move around in the back hunched over to get to the uncomfortable bench seat at the back and are usually freezing cold and noisy as hell.

    Taxi drivers had no say in the type of vehicle best suited to wheelchair users, this was made by the then carriage office and minister of transport.Perhaps you should air your displeasure to the National Transport Authority.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I appreciate that wheelchair passengers rely on them but should the taxi industry be populated with nothing but those awful vans and millions of passengers have to be discommoded by the discomfort and noise and draughts as well as the hassle of having to climb into and out of what is effectively nothing more than a builders van with seats, when it would be far more realistic and reasonable to have a quota of accessible vehicles "on the road" in all area at most times?

    These awful vans were recommended by the carriage office.
    I wasn't aware "millions" of passengers were discommoded by these awful vans.
    As for the hassle of having to climb in and out of them, how would you suggest people get into them ?
    If these "builders vans" are such a hassle why are you saying it would be realistic and reasonable to have a quota of accessible vehicles on the road.
    The same vans you despise??

    foggy_lad wrote: »
    As for my comments earlier they related to anecdotal evidence of the stated behaviour by taxi drivers in Dublin city centre and at the airport ranks where certain individuals are seen to have more rights to spaces than other drivers.

    You said and I quote, "Anecdotal evidence of some drivers being members of illegal paramilitary organisations and using intimidation and other illegal activities to get the best spots at the best ranks for themselves and their friends."

    Also,"The regulators have taken a lot of the "gangster" element out of the taxi business especially in Dublin at the popular ranks and at the Airport".

    Some rather astonishing comments.Again I ask, can you furnish proof/evidence to back up your statement ?


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    #104
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭trellheim


    And we're off on an unrelated point.

    So let's bring it back and break it down Barney-style
    ->
    First punter at the rank gets to choose the cab he wants. Cab rank system means the driver has to take the first fare that gets in unless he breaks the NTA rules. Otherwise the cab driver can get off the rank


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    #105
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    trellheim wrote: »
    And we're off on an unrelated point.

    So let's bring it back and break it down Barney-style
    ->
    First punter at the rank gets to choose the cab he wants. Cab rank system means the driver has to take the first fare that gets in unless he breaks the NTA rules. Otherwise the cab driver can get off the rank

    Where are people getting this "get off the rank" from? I've never heard of it before and certainly never saw it happening.


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    #106
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,226 ✭✭✭howiya


    jca wrote: »
    Where are people getting this "get off the rank" from? I've never heard of it before and certainly never saw it happening.

    Think it was clarified here a day or two ago that that's not the case. Taxi driver would be breaking the NTA rules but doesn't have to leave the rank


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    #107
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,436 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    For your information there are no 10yr old clapped out Corollas working as taxis.
    getting back to this point, can you clarify your source of this information?
    because my taxi ride into the city on friday evening was in an 04 D corolla; the suspension felt tired and there was definitely some support missing in the back seat; it felt spongy and cheap.


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    #108
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    getting back to this point, can you clarify your source of this information?
    because my taxi ride into the city on friday evening was in an 04 D corolla; the suspension felt tired and there was definitely some support missing in the back seat; it felt spongy and cheap.

    Really ? and you choose to take it ? Oh dear.


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    #109
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    getting back to this point, can you clarify your source of this information?
    because my taxi ride into the city on friday evening was in an 04 D corolla; the suspension felt tired and there was definitely some support missing in the back seat; it felt spongy and cheap.

    I outlined earlier why cars older than 10 are still being driven. Basically drivers with a plate older than 49000 have been given a one time exemption to drive their vehicle up to the age of 15 subject to 6 monthly Nct and suitability tests.


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    #110
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,436 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    Really ? and you choose to take it ? Oh dear.
    nicely answered.


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    #111
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,436 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    jca wrote: »
    I outlined earlier why cars older than 10 are still being driven. Basically drivers with a plate older than 49000 have been given a one time exemption to drive their vehicle up to the age of 15 subject to 6 monthly Nct and suitability tests.
    sure, but as per the above journey, it's a bit irritating when you put your hand out for a taxi - not being able to see the model or year because it's dark, and the headlights are in your eyes - and it's a car which would be a prime candidate for scrappage.

    it's one thing not choosing that car on a rank; it's another refusing to get into a taxi you've just hailed. the sooner the cars which qualified for that exemption cycle through it, the better.


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    #112
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    sure, but as per the above journey, it's a bit irritating when you put your hand out for a taxi - not being able to see the model or year because it's dark, and the headlights are in your eyes - and it's a car which would be a prime candidate for scrappage.

    it's one thing not choosing that car on a rank; it's another refusing to get into a taxi you've just hailed. the sooner the cars which qualified for that exemption cycle through it, the better.


    I would have thought most streets in Dublin and cities throughout the country have street lighting,making it possible to see people,buses, bicycles,cars/taxis.
    With respect, I doubt if said taxi had it's "headlights" on. Headlights are usually only used on very dark unlit more often than not country roads.

    You said ,"it's one thing not choosing that car on a rank; it's another refusing to get into a taxi you've just hailed."

    So why couldnt you refuse to take the car you hailed?

    As for " a car which would be a prime candidate for scrappage."

    This same car would have gone through the NCT and passed and gone through the suitability test and passed.


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    #113
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,436 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    With respect, I doubt if said taxi had it's "headlights" on. Headlights are usually only used on very dark unlit more often than not country roads.
    http://www.aclassschoolofmotoring.com/news/where-and-when-to-use-the-right-lights
    http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/what-are-dipped-headlights-when-to-use-them.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp

    he had his dipped headlights on. claiming that headlights is only the correct term to use when you're talking about full beams would be an unusual position to take, i'd have thought.

    anyway, i clearly don't have your powers to be able to tell the age and condition of a car when it's driving towards me in the dark, especially since you'd have to stare at a point between the headlights (or whatever you choose to call them) to be able to see the reg. certainly not when you're standing at the side of a road with cars passing at 50km/h.


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    #114
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Those wheelchair vans are the worst possible form of transport on the roads as far as ordinary passengers comfort goes! They are the most awkward yoke for anyone with a mobility impairment to get into or out of, even with a step. they require the passenger to move around in the back hunched over to get to the uncomfortable bench seat at the back and are usually freezing cold and noisy as hell.

    Eh, you are missing the point! They are aimed at Wheelchair users. People who can't get out of them and need to be wheeled into the taxi! :rolleyes:
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    ....it would be far more realistic and reasonable to have a quota of accessible vehicles "on the road" in all area at most times?

    A survey of wheelchair use of taxis needs to be done and the number of wheelchair accessible taxis needs to be representative of the numbers using the service.

    No survey required. I can tell you that there is never ever ever enough accessible vehicles "on the road" in any pretty much any area at any time of the day.

    In fact, if the number of wheelchair accessible vehicles was to increase 10 fold overnight, there still wouldn't be enough of them.


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    #115
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    I understand why they are there but the number of accessible taxis is far too high proportionally to the number of wheelchair users requiring taxis IMO


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    #116
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I understand why they are there but the number of accessible taxis is far too high proportionally to the number of wheelchair users requiring taxis IMO

    well than you clearly haven't got a clue


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    #117
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,436 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I understand why they are there but the number of accessible taxis is far too high proportionally to the number of wheelchair users requiring taxis IMO
    of course it is. because it has to be.
    if 10 wheelchair bound people were in need of a taxi at any one time in dublin, how efficient a service would it be if there were only 10 capable taxis operating at that time? especially so if someone in a chair wanted to hail one at a rank, instead of booking one ahead of time.

    the number of capable vehicles has to significantly exceed demand.


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    #118
    AlanG
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭AlanG


    Peppa Pig wrote: »
    Should he be forced to take the one he doesn't like the look of as they hailed him first?

    I personally think the customer should be allowed choose, but from the taxi drivers point of view I can see where they are coming from. They may be working with the other guys on the rank for 30 years and be in the same Union. It is unreasonable to expect them to skip the queue if they don't want to.


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    #119
    AlanG
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭AlanG


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    allowing that the driver is using a 'service', he or she is as free to choose that service as a customer is to choose a taxi.
    there's nothing forcing a taxi driver to choose taxi rank A over taxi rank B to ply their trade in. the driver will choose based on what suits their purposes best, just as the customer will.

    The customer does not have to use a rank. I never use a rank if I don't like the look of the first car, I just get one I like on the road because I wouldn't expect a driver to skip the rank queue. It's not a big deal. If I am at the airport I just tell the first driver his car is not good enough and I wait until a car I like comes up. It is not a big deal.


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    #120
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Ah I don't know. Two guys running 2 shops selling similar merchandise next door to each other. One lad doesn't care and lets his shop drift by. Other lad spends money on his shop maintenance, keeps it clean and modern.

    Thing is, the shop that's in a jock was there first........ where do you shop? :D

    If you are in business, you have to do everything in your power to make sure you provide the service your customer demands, or they will simply shop elsewhere. Taxis are no different to any other business


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    #121
    Peppa Pig
    Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Peppa Pig


    AlanG wrote: »
    The customer does not have to use a rank. I never use a rank if I don't like the look of the first car, I just get one I like on the road because I wouldn't expect a driver to skip the rank queue. It's not a big deal.
    Bet you it is in the lashing rain, when you are in a hurry and all cars on the street are joining the rank.


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