Taxi rank rules

54and56

Hi all,

I was in Dublin last night and wanted to get a taxi home. It would have been a €20 fare minimum.

I went to a rank and the first two taxi's were old fairly shook looking cars, one was a 2003 Avensis and the other was a dirty Nissan Almera. The third car was a 2014 Skoda Octavia which was like new with leather etc. As I was going to be spending €20 or more and wanted a comfortable journey I opted to get into the Octavia but to my surprise the driver refused to take me and insisted I had to go to the front of the rank and take the first available car. I challenged him that I was entitled to opt for whatever car I wanted and that he couldn't refuse to accept my fare but he wasn't having any of it and told me if I didn't get out of his car he'd call the Guards. It wasn't worth having a row with him so I I got out and walked a few yards down the road where I waited a few minutes for a good quality taxi, flagged it down and off I went. (FYI it was a nice 2011 VW Passat)

So, what is the situation? The National Transport Authority states here that taxis on the rank must be available for hire (and I assume therefore can't refuse to be hired) and the customer is free to choose whichever car on the rank they want to hire - https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/operating-an-spsv/taxi-ranks/

I wish I had a link to this page on my phone with me. Perhaps I was the one who should have threatened to call the Guards!!!

onethreefive

I also think having to go in the first taxi is ridiculous. I was helping someone move house once and I was carrying about five huge bags and just went to the nearest taxi only to be told I had to go up to the first taxi.

And I agree that you should be able to pick the nicest taxi there considering a nice one will cost the same as a not so nice one

Losty Dublin

You as a passenger may pick whatever car that you want in the rank. A lot of drivers still adhere to the concept of maintaining an orderly queue and sending you to the top, mainly out of courtesy for the drivers ahead of them and to avoid the odd argument with irate passengers. As an ex driver and an occasional passenger I can see both sides of the coin here and wouldn't fret about it either way.

Atlantic Dawn

You are free to pick whatever taxi you want in the Q, if everyone went for their choice of car the fleet would improve and some of the absolute junk would be sold off as nobody would want to travel it. You should report the driver to the Taxi regulator.

the groutch

I'm guessing it's the O'Connell Street rank?
How they still get away with their quasi-bullying is beyond me.

Spanish Eyes

the groutch wrote: »

I'm guessing it's the O'Connell Street rank?
How they still get away with their quasi-bullying is beyond me.

God that rank is a law unto itself alright. It may not be the one the OP is talking about, but nevertheless.

I avoid it like the plague TBH. I guess visitors to the city don't know about the bullies that ply their trade there though, so on it goes.

I have to say I would feel very intimidated about NOT taking the first taxi in the queue, and the vast majority of people feel the same. The drivers play along with this too. First car out is the one at the top of the queue.

But maybe a driver further back would feel bad for his mate up at the top if he gets away first.

I dunno. But I have to say I avoid taxis as much as I can nowadays.

And now we will hear them moaning and giving out ad infinitum about the plans to move their ranks because of the LUAS and the car free initiative.

I would rather pull out my fingernails.

coylemj

The reason those two bangers were on the rank was probably because nobody would flag them down so their only chance of business was to go to a rank and work their way to the top.

I have experience of going down the line in taxi ranks. Our company used taxi company xxx and we used to always have a couple of dockets on us so if we arrived back in Dublin airport on a business trip, we'd come out of arrivals and look down the rank for a taxi from company xxx. Say it was the fifth in line, to avoid any 'misunderstanding' (i.e. aggro) we'd go to the first guy in the line, wave the docket at him, explain that it was a company job and we had to use a taxi from xxx so he would nod his approval and then we'd go down to our man. If you simply went straight to the guy you wanted to use (as in the OP's case above), he would be afraid to take you on for fear of causing an upset further up the line.

While I'm here...... the worst taxi I was ever in was in Cavan town. No rear seat belts and the back seat had collapsed and was bouncing off the metal floor of the car, you had to hang on to the overhead handle to stop your arse getting bumped by the metal beneath! We were only going a few hundred metres so put up with the bumpy ride!

wupucus

the standard of hygiene in Dublin Taxi's is a disgrace- this applies to both the Taxi's and the drivers in equal measure. Many of the drivers have no regard for their appearance or personal hygiene - many do not seem to think that washing oneself is a minimum requirement for working in a service industry- you would need a tetanus shot before traveling in some of the Taxi's in this city-

TallGlass

wupucus wrote: »

the standard of hygiene in Dublin Taxi's is a disgrace- this applies to both the Taxi's and the drivers in equal measure. Many of the drivers have no regard for their appearance or personal hygiene - many do not seem to think that washing oneself is a minimum requirement for working in a service industry- you would need a tetanus shot before traveling in some of the Taxi's in this city-

There is a law that states taxi drivers must dress in black so there a dress code. Guessing it's never enforced.

54and56

the groutch wrote: »

I'm guessing it's the O'Connell Street rank?
How they still get away with their quasi-bullying is beyond me.

It wasn't but now I know the rules I'll be a bit more assertive in future and sit happily waiting for the Guards to arrive if that's what the driver threatens to do again.

I'm mad I didn't get his details.

Losty Dublin

TallGlass wrote: »

There is a law that states taxi drivers must dress in black so there a dress code. Guessing it's never enforced.

No, there isn't any law stating that. Some firms have uniformed or liveried drivers but that's their own requirements.

porsche959

the groutch wrote: »

I'm guessing it's the O'Connell Street rank?
How they still get away with their quasi-bullying is beyond me.

Is the guy that shouts at the other drivers to move up still at it there? That bloke used to do my head in when I worked in the area.

porsche959

There seems to be a high statistical correlation between a certain ethnic group of taxi drivers and the crappy Avensis/Carina taxis, but apparently one is lot allowed to notice that.

Losty Dublin

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

It wasn't but now I know the rules I'll be a bit more assertive in future and sit happily waiting for the Guards to arrive if that's what the driver threatens to do again.

I'm mad I didn't get his details.

No offence but you will be waiting a long time if you think a Garda will call out to you over this. You can report it to the NTA but to be honest you are as well to suck it up and wait for a taxi that will take you on.

54and56

Losty Dublin wrote: »

No offence but you will be waiting a long time if you think a Garda will call out to you over this. You can report it to the NTA but to be honest you are as well to suck it up and wait for a taxi that will take you on.

I was referring to the taxi driver threatening to call the Guards. I didn't want any hassle so I got out of his car but next time I'll let him call the Guards and if they take forever so what, it's not like the meter will be running is it? ;-)

jca

TallGlass wrote: »

There is a law that states taxi drivers must dress in black so there a dress code. Guessing it's never enforced.

No there isn't.

Losty Dublin

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I was referring to the taxi driver threatening to call the Guards. I didn't want any hassle so I got out of his car but next time I'll let him call the Guards and if they take forever so what, it's not like the meter will be running is it? ;-)

The Gardaí almost never get involved in passengers disputes with drivers and passengers anymore. If there are allegations of dangerous driving, assault, theft etc aimed at drivers then yes but overcharging of fares, refusal carry passengers and things directly related to the operation of the cab are taken up by the NTA. Unless they happen to pass you at the time then you are unlikely to have them call out to you on such a complaint

54and56

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The Gardaí almost never get involved in passengers disputes with drivers and passengers anymore. If there are allegations of dangerous driving, assault, theft etc aimed at drivers then yes but overcharging of fares, refusal carry passengers and things directly related to the operation of the cab are taken up by the NTA. Unless they happen to pass you at the time then you are unlikely to have them call out to you on such a complaint

Maybe I'm not explaining myself very well, apologies if I'm not.

I'm the passenger who has sat into the #3 taxi in a rank. The driver refuses to take me and insists I go to the taxi at the top of the rank. When I challenge him and refuse to go to the top of the rank he threatens to call the Guards NOT me!!

On Friday night I opted to exit the car as I wasn't 100% sure I had the right to choose whatever car on the rank I wanted and the driver didn't have the right to refuse me but now I know the situation I'll happily stay in the car and wait for the Guards to arrive if the driver chooses to call them. If they take 40 minutes to arrive so what, it's not like the meter will be on is it? It's the driver who would be wasting what should be fare earning time not me.

savagethegoat

jca wrote: »

No there isn't.

I agree only applies to Galaxy Defenders

moc moc a moc

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

he couldn't refuse to accept my fare

Hi, we don't live in Stalinist Russia.

endacl

savagethegoat wrote: »

I agree only applies to Galaxy Defenders

And ninjas who only drive taxis part time at the weekend. They're fierce hard to find...

Losty Dublin

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Maybe I'm not explaining myself very well, apologies if I'm not.

You actually explained yourself perfectly, actually so it may be that you misunderstood my answer

The way it works is that when it's issues relating to the operation of a taxi (Like in this instance.) it's the NTA that you, as a passenger, needs to take it up with and to complain to. The Gardaí will rarely get involved with complaints passengers and taxi drivers unless there is something going on that may be a public order matter, traffic offence or a criminal matter, all of which are stuff that the NTA can't handle, or if they just happen to be there at the time and willing to mediate.

To give an example, a driver who wants to eject passenger/s or if you want to report dangerous driving or an alleged assault are examples of what the Gards will deal with. What they won't generally deal with are overcharging, refused entry into a cab, drivers who gets lost en route or complaints about conduct or car standards as they are the remit of the NTA.

That all said, the right to get into any PSV licenced vehicle is still at the behest of the driver and they have power of ejection should the need arise. If you were unlucky enough to get into an stand off with a bus or taxi driver at night, rightly or wrongly but Sods law says that the vehicle driver tends to be the believed part, especially when it's late at night.

martingriff

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Hi all,

I was in Dublin last night and wanted to get a taxi home. It would have been a €20 fare minimum.

I went to a rank and the first two taxi's were old fairly shook looking cars, one was a 2003 Avensis and the other was a dirty Nissan Almera. The third car was a 2014 Skoda Octavia which was like new with leather etc. As I was going to be spending €20 or more and wanted a comfortable journey I opted to get into the Octavia but to my surprise the driver refused to take me and insisted I had to go to the front of the rank and take the first available car. I challenged him that I was entitled to opt for whatever car I wanted and that he couldn't refuse to accept my fare but he wasn't having any of it and told me if I didn't get out of his car he'd call the Guards. It wasn't worth having a row with him so I I got out and walked a few yards down the road where I waited a few minutes for a good quality taxi, flagged it down and off I went. (FYI it was a nice 2011 VW Passat)

So, what is the situation? The National Transport Authority states here that taxis on the rank must be available for hire (and I assume therefore can't refuse to be hired) and the customer is free to choose whichever car on the rank they want to hire - https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/operating-an-spsv/taxi-ranks/

I wish I had a link to this page on my phone with me. Perhaps I was the one who should have threatened to call the Guards!!!

To answer you question as everybody says you can go into any car in the queue. Just to say your quite snobby about your car which is your can do however just because a car can look shoddy from the outside does not mean they are not a great car to drive in. On of my favorite cars to drive in was a 1979 Nissan Sunny may have looked crap but was very comfortable.

JONJO THE MISER

porsche959 wrote: »

There seems to be a high statistical correlation between a certain ethnic group of taxi drivers and the crappy Avensis/Carina taxis, but apparently one is lot allowed to notice that.

:eek: You cant mention stuff like that around here, dont you know where you are.

Red Kev

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Maybe I'm not explaining myself very well, apologies if I'm not.

I'm the passenger who has sat into the #3 taxi in a rank. The driver refuses to take me and insists I go to the taxi at the top of the rank. When I challenge him and refuse to go to the top of the rank he threatens to call the Guards NOT me!!

On Friday night I opted to exit the car as I wasn't 100% sure I had the right to choose whatever car on the rank I wanted and the driver didn't have the right to refuse me but now I know the situation I'll happily stay in the car and wait for the Guards to arrive if the driver chooses to call them. If they take 40 minutes to arrive so what, it's not like the meter will be on is it? It's the driver who would be wasting what should be fare earning time not me.

If a driver tells you to get out of a taxi and you refuse, you are committing an offence and the Guards will back them up.

This doesn't matter if it's at the rank or halfway through a journey, they have the right to tell you to get out.

If you have a complaint about him not taking you, then you can contact the NTA, but it's usually a waste of phone credit IMO.

dunleakelleher

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

that taxis on the rank must be available for hire (and I assume therefore can't refuse to be hired) and the customer is free to choose whichever car on the rank they want to hire

You are right, you are allow to pick any car on the rank, but also Im sure the taxi has the equal right to refuse any fair he doesn't feel comfortable with.

So best thigh to do is what you did, just get out and flag down another.

savagethegoat

porsche959 wrote: »

There seems to be a high statistical correlation between a certain ethnic group of taxi drivers and the crappy Avensis/Carina taxis, but apparently one is lot allowed to notice that.

when did you last see a Carina taxi?

54and56

Losty Dublin wrote: »

That all said, the right to get into any PSV licenced vehicle is still at the behest of the driver and they have power of ejection should the need arise.

I guess this is the crux of the issue I need to understand.

If I sit into a taxi which is parked at a rank (and therefore available for hire as it cannot be parked at a rank unless it is available for hire) is my refusal to get out and use the first taxi in the line a sufficient "need" for the driver to eject me? Does the driver have an absolute right to request decline a fare and/or ask someone who has gotten into his taxi to exit the taxi regardless?

I (possibly incorrectly) understood that a taxi on a rank which is available for hire the driver is obliged to take a fare (within certain limits e.g. if it's more than 30km's he can decline) and doesn't have an absolute discretion to eject passengers or refuse a fare unless there is a serious/justifiable reason not to.

If I'm wrong then I guess although the NTA state you are entitled to take whatever taxi you want from a rank and not just the first one in the queue the reality is so long as the taxi drivers themselves adhere to a 1st taxi goes 1st protocol and can eject passengers who choose the 2nd or 3rd car on the rank
the right of passengers to choose whatever car they want only works in theory and not in practice.

54and56

Red Kev wrote: »

If a driver tells you to get out of a taxi and you refuse, you are committing an offence and the Guards will back them up.

This doesn't matter if it's at the rank or halfway through a journey, they have the right to tell you to get out.

I guess it's that part of the licensing regulation that I need to understand. If taxi drivers do have the right to eject you for any reason at any time I'll obviously respect that right. I didn't think they had as Taxi's are public transport vehicles but I'm open to correction and would appreciate if anyone can link to the relevant regulation/legislation giving Taxi drivers that right? Do train and public bus drivers have the same right? I can totally understand a private hire vehicle having the right but I didn't think public taxi's had the right.

coylemj

I suspect that the driver refused the OP so that he wouldn't get booted off the rank permanently for allowing someone to cherry-pick the taxi they wanted.

That rank runs by it's own rules, there is no way in hell they will tolerate a system where it becomes a beauty parade and would-be passengers can select the car they want. If that was the case, you'd have some clapped out banger permanently stuck at the head of the queue with everyone passing him by to go to another car.

Forget customer satisfaction or any of that nonsense and you can forget about complaining to the NTA, I'd say that they and the Gardai have given up trying to regulate the way it's run. The only message they understand is if you stand on the path close by and hail a passing taxi.

The Backwards Man

Driver can't reasonably refuse a journey under 30km. Passing the job onto one of the heaps of crap in front isn't a reasonable reason for refusal. I'd take note of his details and report his attitude to the NTA. Waste of time or not, it costs nothing.